This is why gun law(s) will NOT work with criminals

[sandorski]

To clarify, a mass shooting incident is premeditated with the intention to kill and injure as many as possible. The shooter also intends to die at the end of said incident either by suicide or police.

Indeed.

 

[Knowing]

A Mass Shooting is an incident when a large amount of people or shot by a Gunman or Gunmen in a single event. It is not just all the Shootings in an area lumped together.

You want to know how I know that you didn't visit even a single link?
4 men shot at Hearts Night Club on Goose Island


Wednesday, August 06, 2014
Teen killed, 6 injured in West Side shooting

Posted: Jul 25

Three people, including a 15-year-old boy, were shot around 11:30 p.m.
Saturday, Jul 19

I don't have time to parse the 4th of July shootings to find any where victim n ≥ 4.

To clarify, a mass shooting incident is premeditated with the intention to kill and injure as many as possible. The shooter also intends to die at the end of said incident either by suicide or police.

These goal posts, they are'a'movin.'

 

[sandorski]

You want to know how I know that you didn't visit even a single link?
4 men shot at Hearts Night Club on Goose Island


Wednesday, August 06, 2014
Teen killed, 6 injured in West Side shooting

Posted: Jul 25

Three people, including a 15-year-old boy, were shot around 11:30 p.m.
Saturday, Jul 19

I don't have time to parse the 4th of July shootings to find any where victim n ≥ 4.



These goal posts, they are'a'movin.'

Looked at the links. So you found a few that were Mass Shootings that didn't meet my criteria, so? I didn't say all.

 

[Knowing]

Looked at the links. So you found a few that were Mass Shootings that didn't meet my criteria, so? I didn't say all.

So your criteria arbitrarily and specifically excludes gang activity and you neglected to tell me? Could you perhaps expound on what motivated you to waste my time - twice?

 

[sandorski]

So your criteria arbitrarily and specifically excludes gang activity and you neglected to tell me? Could you perhaps expound on what motivated you to waste my time - twice?

You're putting words in my mouth. No, I did not exclude Gang Activity. That said, do you think that's as serious an issue as a School Shooting or other event where the Victims are targeted randomly?

 

[Svnla]

So? Most of the Mass Shooters are not Gang Members, Thugs, or long time Criminals. They are usually people who just go off the deep end and grab the easily accessible firearms at their disposal.

Oh really?

Let pick just one (1) city, shall we? Let see what NPR has to say about that.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/interrupters/

And of course, we have the regulars such as Bloods and Crips and Latin Kings, MS-13. No need to explain about them. I bet money that gang related shootings are more frequently than "go off the deep end" shootings as you stated.

 

[Fenixgoon]

So? Most of the Mass Shooters are not Gang Members, Thugs, or long time Criminals. They are usually people who just go off the deep end and grab the easily accessible firearms at their disposal.

and most firearms homicides in the US are not mass-murders. so why bother addressing 1% instead of the 99%?

 

[DrPizza]

To clarify, a mass shooting incident is premeditated with the intention to kill and injure as many as possible. The shooter also intends to die at the end of said incident either by suicide or police.

If you two didn't keep moving the goal posts, and just realize that there are more mass shootings than the media reports on, you wouldn't foolish. The reason I say foolish, is because you've now changed the definition of "mass shooting incident" such that the Aurora theater shootings in which 12 people died, and 70 were injured, is not a mass shooting. James Holmes apparently didn't want to die at the end of the incident.

 

[her209]

If you two didn't keep moving the goal posts, and just realize that there are more mass shootings than the media reports on, you wouldn't foolish. The reason I say foolish, is because you've now changed the definition of "mass shooting incident" such that the Aurora theater shootings in which 12 people died, and 70 were injured, is not a mass shooting. James Holmes apparently didn't want to die at the end of the incident.

I totally said that. Riiiight...



By Knowing's definition of a "mass shooting", this story qualifies too.

 

[TerryMathews]

You're putting words in my mouth. No, I did not exclude Gang Activity. That said, do you think that's as serious an issue as a School Shooting or other event where the Victims are targeted randomly?

Yes. Who are you to arbitrate that one life is worth more than another?

 

[Exterous]

I totally said that. Riiiight...

:hmm: You said a mass shooting is where "The shooter also intends to die at the end of said incident either by suicide or police." Thus any shooting where the shooter does not intend to die by suicide or police could not qualify as a 'mass shooting'. So by your stated definition the Aurora Theater is not a mass shooting event

 

[spacejamz]

You aren't very bright are you? I'll let you figure out why comparing apples to oranges is stupid.

Why? It has never stopped the left from comparing the US healthcare system to those of other countries....

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Isn't that like saying that since any laws are capable of being broken by a criminal, why have any laws at all?

Laws can't stop anything. They can only make them as a deterrent for criminal activity.

Thanks, I was going to post something along these lines. Why have any laws, as clearly the criminals pay no heed to them anyway?

 

[JockoJohnson]

England classifies different things as violent crimes than we do. You are comparing apples to oranges.

You should learn more about what you're talking about before calling others stupid.

Seriously? Others on this board have no problem comparing life expectancy between the US and Europe even though they are calculated differently.

a link: http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/11/23/the-myth-of-americans-poor-life-expectancy/

Pick apart the site or the source, I am sure it is biased in some way to disagree with anyone's held beliefs.

 

[openwheel]

How many criminals actually remind themselves: hey, maybe I shouldn't rob this house. They might have guns.

The answer is no. They say to themselves: mo$%er fu@%93s, we got these guns b4ic4es. Let's rob the 1st house we see.

 

[blake0812]

How many criminals actually remind themselves: hey, maybe I shouldn't rob this house. They might have guns.

The answer is no. They say to themselves: mo$%er fu@%93s, we got these guns b4ic4es. Let's rob the 1st house we see.

This. They will stop at nothing to get what they want, you'll need something to defend yourself.

About kids getting ahold of it, it's the fault of the parent, not the gun. It's natural selection at its finest.

 

[MtnMan]

And yet in Canada guns are more regulated than the US and our rates of violent crime (and crime in general) are far lower than in the US.

btw, violent crime in Britain has been *declining* for decades, not increasing as you claim.

Uh check #4 on the list, Hint: it ain't the US

 

[blake0812]

Uh check #4 on the list, Hint: it ain't the US

To be fair, that dates back to 2001, more than a decade ago.

 

[irishScott]

The more Guns in circulation, the easier it is for this kid and other criminals to get a hold of a gun.

And yet despite an unprecedented increase in gun sales over the last few years gun homicides are significantly down from a few years ago.

So even if your point is true, it's pretty clear that gun availability isn't all that meaningful either.

 

[fskimospy]

And yet despite an unprecedented increase in gun sales over the last few years gun homicides are significantly down from a few years ago.

So even if your point is true, it's pretty clear that gun availability isn't all that meaningful either.

There would be two ways of looking at this. While gun sales in the US are up considerably, the percentage of Americans who own guns has continued to decline.

Availability could be looked at in terms of number of guns, but it would also be useful to think of it as the number of people who have access to them.

 

[irishScott]

How many criminals actually remind themselves: hey, maybe I shouldn't rob this house. They might have guns.

The answer is no. They say to themselves: mo$%er fu@%93s, we got these guns b4ic4es. Let's rob the 1st house we see.

Depends on where you live. I imagine a would-be criminal in Kennesaw Georgia would stay away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia

The town is noted for its unusual gun legislation in response to Morton Grove, Illinois' law mandating gun prohibition. In 1982 the city passed an ordinance [Sec 34-21][20]

(a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the city, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore.

(b) Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony.

In 2001, violent crime rates are about 85% below national and state rates. Property crime rates are from 46-56% below national and state rates. From 1999 to 2011, Kennesaw crime statistics reported that both property and violent crimes had decreased, though from 2003 to 2008 the trend in both violent and property crime rates slightly increased.[18] The increase in crime rate overall is attributed to the population growth rate of 37.41%. The population growth rate is much higher than the state average rate of 18.34% and is much higher than the national average rate of 9.71%.[19]

Current population is about 30,000.

 

[smackababy]

And yet despite an unprecedented increase in gun sales over the last few years gun homicides are significantly down from a few years ago.

So even if your point is true, it's pretty clear that gun availability isn't all that meaningful either.

The best part is, a lot of what I've read about actually stopping criminals from getting guns is stopping gun dealers from breaking already existing laws. Adding new laws won't stop Jim Bob's Gun Shop from dealing out the back door, because he is already breaking those laws.

The only way to fully stop gun crime is to use that magical gun eraser that all those "gun free" countries have used.

 

[irishScott]

There would be two ways of looking at this. While gun sales in the US are up considerably, the percentage of Americans who own guns has continued to decline.

Availability could be looked at in terms of number of guns, but it would also be useful to think of it as the number of people who have access to them.

Depends on who's numbers you use. I've got two reputable polls here that show no such decrease.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

Edit: Also ABC/Washington Post Ownership Poll

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

"Do you or does anyone in your house own a gun, or not?"

Yes No
% %


4/11-14/13
43 55


3/7-10/13
42 57


1/10-13/13
44 56


1/13-16/11
44 55


4/21-24/09
41 58


6/12-15/08
42 58


4/22/07
45 55


10/5-8/06
42 58


10/02
41 59


5/00
45 55


4/00
43 56


9/99
44 56


5/99
46 53

 

[fskimospy]

Depends on where you live. I imagine a would-be criminal in Kennesaw Georgia would stay away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia

Current population is about 30,000.

I'd be interested to see how it compares to towns with similar geographic and demographic data. Median household income there is much higher than in the rest of Georgia.

 

[fskimospy]

Depends on who's numbers you use.

Not really, even Gallup's numbers show a 12 point decline in the percentage of American homes that have guns in them. Considering only half said they had it to begin with, that's a pretty huge decline. Also, both sets of numbers seem to show a pretty similar story.