This is what's wrong with healthcare.

[nakedfrog]

Somebody has to pay for all the people that go to the ER with no insurance and no intention to pay for it, and who make so little that it's barely worth garnishing their wages.
That somebody is you. And me.

 

[Six]

If you have insurance, then you'll get the "negotiated" price which will be a whole lot less than that.

Doctors and nurses don't get much of the money pie. You should see the executive suites for the executive staff. It's as nice and spacious as any luxury hotels. Doctors get a shared closet to do their work.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I cut my finger, kind of bad. Went to the emergency room and got 8 stitches.

Fortunately the ER wasn't busy so I was out in about an hour, about 10 minutes of which was actual medical treatment (clean, stitch, bandage).

The bill was $3,745.15. How can this be? That's nuts!

I've said this in other posts. I used to know a guy who went to Europe for work. He had essentially the same thing done for around $50 in England as a foreigner. That included antibiotics too. I can't remember if it was stitches or the glue stuff. Honestly what is a fair cost for a procedure like OP mentioned? $50 sounds about right to me.

I know this suggestion is late and irritating that it shouldn't be such an extreme difference but we need to accept it.
Emergency care centers not the Hospital type are much more affordable for simple wounds.
Why Hospitals don't mention costs for simple procedures proves that the staff is embarrassed about the cost.

 

[lytalbayre]

When my daughter was about 10 months old, she caught a cold. At first we thought it was a normal cold, and we took her to the doctor and were just told to watch her to make sure she keeps eating and doesn't get too lethargic.

Took her back after 1.5 days because we felt she wasn't improving. Same BS by her pediatrician... wait.

Finally, after another 1.5 days or so, my wife takes our daughter to the dr. again (I'm at work) and the doctor says he feels she isn't improving and we should take her to the ER.

At the ER, they start going over what could be wrong, meningitis, other crazy things..... they performed a spinal tap and took blood and fluid samples to test for virus and bacteria.... and admitted her to the hospital.

We had our own room and she was in the hospital for two nights and three days.

Within the first six hours, they determined that she had Respiratory Syncytial Virus Infection (RSV). This is a pretty strong virus and could be deadly in infants if not treated, but her case was relatively mild.

Within 8 hours of her receiving an IV and being on antibiotics (as a precaution), she was markedly improved.

For her remaining stay in the hospital, they kept her on the IV solution, and about every 2 hours a nurse would come by and check on her and use a saline solution to clean out her nose.

NO SURGERY, NO EXOTIC MEDICINE, MINIMAL STAFF SUPPORT, REALLY NO EXPERTISE NEEDED FOR THE TREATMENT SHE RECEIVED.....

The bill for all of this was over $36K....

Luckily we did not have to pay anything. However, I did see the insurance statement, and our insurance pretty much refused to pay $36K and assigned their own rates to the treatment, which resulted in the insurance paying around $22K. And the hospital just accepted it.

It was interesting to see. A real eye opener and first hand experience that a hospital will pretty much charge anything they want. In a very real sense, it's like old school negotiation. They start out laughably high and will drop their price when negotiated with... Still the price they end up charging is utterly ridiculous.

hospital rates truly do need to be regulated.

I don't mind paying overhead, etc etc., I just want to be told that's what I'm paying for.

PS. My wife and I contracted RSV the week after my daughter was better.... it's the worse cold I've had that I can remember. Sucked so much.

 

[luv2liv]

Somebody has to pay for all the people that go to the ER with no insurance and no intention to pay for it, and who make so little that it's barely worth garnishing their wages.
That somebody is you. And me.

would the problem be fixed if hospitals have a menu like at Burger King?
$1000 for knee replacement
$200 for stitches
...etc.....

and if you can't afford, tough luck. better start saving or call a rich uncle.
i saved up for my DSLR and lenses. nobody paid for my photo gears.

 

[chitwood]

next time just cast renew on yourself, you'll be fine

 

[flexy]

Somebody has to pay for all the people that go to the ER with no insurance and no intention to pay for it, and who make so little that it's barely worth garnishing their wages.
That somebody is you. And me.

Ah...I see! It's Jose's fault (again), you're saying? So, Jose from Tijuana is the reason his 10mins in the ER cost $3,800?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Why we don't demand change as consumers and voters is upsetting.

 

[Homerboy]

When my daughter was about 10 months old, she caught a cold. At first we thought it was a normal cold, and we took her to the doctor and were just told to watch her to make sure she keeps eating and doesn't get too lethargic.

<snip>

PS. My wife and I contracted RSV the week after my daughter was better.... it's the worse cold I've had that I can remember. Sucked so much.

Insurance never pays "retail". They have negotiated price breaks on everything -- think of it is insurance buying in bulk and getting a better deal because of it. Every EOB (explanation of Benefits) statement will show "Billed Rate", "Insurance Rate", "amount covered by insurance", "Patient's Responsibility" (column names may vary of course)

That being said, one time I saved the insurance money -- their negotiated rate was MORE than the billed rate. Took the hospital and insurance over a year to argue it out, but eventually the insurance got a better deal, and in-turn I was OOP less too 🙂

PS: The insurance company did not thank me.

 

[vi edit]

Ah...I see! It's Jose's fault (again), you're saying? So, Jose from Tijuana is the reason his 10mins in the ER cost $3,800?

No it's Sally Joe Rotten Crotch from the trailer park or Latifa from the hood going in with "pelvic pain" to the ED taking up a room, a nurse, and an MD's time only to pee on a stick and find out they have a string of STD's that could fill a bingo chart with letters. The fix? A $4 (if not free) antibiotic.

Toss in drug OD's, gang bangers that get shot up, and drug seekers and it's plenty of US born citizens that are a drain and bane on the system.

Like was said earlier, these are all things that prompt cares could handle. If the government wants to bring down costs, start putting up federal clinics to treat that stuff en masse and leave the truly accute to the medical centers.

 

[Humpy]

People who complain about the price after receiving service aggravate me. :|

 

[flexy]

Uhm wait. Here in Europe where we have universal healthcare THAT WORKS, we also have the one or the other freeloader who is just leeching off the system, drug addicts, "immigrants" or people who likely won't ever pay their bills. And still, they'd probably charge you $40 for this surgery and not $4000. So this argument..cannot be valid.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

No it's Sally Joe Rotten Crotch from the trailer park or Latifa from the hood going in with "pelvic pain" to the ED taking up a room, a nurse, and an MD's time only to pee on a stick and find out they have a string of STD's that could fill a bingo chart with letters. The fix? A $4 (if not free) antibiotic.

Toss in drug OD's, gang bangers that get shot up, and drug seekers and it's plenty of US born citizens that are a drain and bane on the system.

Like was said earlier, these are all things that prompt cares could handle. If the government wants to bring down costs, start putting up federal clinics to treat that stuff en masse and leave the truly accute to the medical centers.

I partially agree, would the cost at a wealthy suburban hospital be 1/10th the cost since they only see insured people and do not see gang bangers or hookers?

 

[IronWing]

People who complain about the price after receiving service aggravate me. :|

Valid point when/where it is possible to learn the price upfront. When medical providers simply will not discuss price upfront then the point loses validity. "We don't want price to interfere with the doctor-patient relationship" was printed on one piece of paper we received at the ER.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

People who complain about the price after receiving service aggravate me. :|

Having the cost concealed until the bill arrives aggravates me.

 

[luv2liv]

Having the cost concealed until the bill arrives aggravates me.

^10.
that's why at ALL the services place i know, like the Lexus dealership, they will tell me how much it will cost before working on my car. all the times i've been to the hospitals, they've never tell me how much it will cost, EVEN if i ask.

 

[Sonikku]

The people who get screwed are those who can afford it.
A huge portion of medical bills are never paid for, are negotiated down a huge amount, or are paid by the government at a reduced amount.

People who can afford it, skip the doctor and put themselves at risk.
People who can't afford it, take advantage of it and burden the system even more.

Health Savings Accounts are a great way to save money for inevitable healthcare costs, but you can't have one if you have "decent" insurance. It's a fucked up system.

Damn poor people. Always making it hard on the Job Creators.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

^10.
that's why at ALL the services place i know, like the Lexus dealership, they will tell me how much it will cost before working on my car. all the times i've been to the hospitals, they've never tell me how much it will cost, EVEN if i ask.

Because they are care givers they want to help people. They know the costs are astronomical, they know many charges are not based on anything realistic. They are embarrassed to talk about them.

 

[Homerboy]

Having the cost concealed until the bill arrives aggravates me.

I do agree with this, but even if you went to the ER and they had all the prices listed, WTF are you going to do with your bleeding stump hand? "Oh shit... these guys charge THAT much for stitches? I'm heading cross town where it's 10% cheaper... Hope I don't bleed out!!!"

When it comes down to it, the prices are just too fucking expensive across the board. I understand where the costs come from, but that doesn't make them excusable.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I do agree with this, but even if you went to the ER and they had all the prices listed, WTF are you going to do with your bleeding stump hand? "Oh shit... these guys charge THAT much for stitches? I'm heading cross town where it's 10% cheaper... Hope I don't bleed out!!!"

When it comes down to it, the prices are just too fucking expensive across the board. I understand where the costs come from, but that doesn't make them excusable.

Agreed. I was talking about something that is less of an emergency maybe they could say seems like your insurance will pay this amount you will be left with about a $3500 bill do you want to continue or try the urgent care place in the morning?

 

[nakedfrog]

Ah...I see! It's Jose's fault (again), you're saying? So, Jose from Tijuana is the reason his 10mins in the ER cost $3,800?

Well, aren't you presumptuous? 🙄

No it's Sally Joe Rotten Crotch from the trailer park or Latifa from the hood going in with "pelvic pain" to the ED taking up a room, a nurse, and an MD's time only to pee on a stick and find out they have a string of STD's that could fill a bingo chart with letters. The fix? A $4 (if not free) antibiotic.

Toss in drug OD's, gang bangers that get shot up, and drug seekers and it's plenty of US born citizens that are a drain and bane on the system.

Like was said earlier, these are all things that prompt cares could handle. If the government wants to bring down costs, start putting up federal clinics to treat that stuff en masse and leave the truly accute to the medical centers.

Yes.

Uhm wait. Here in Europe where we have universal healthcare THAT WORKS, we also have the one or the other freeloader who is just leeching off the system, drug addicts, "immigrants" or people who likely won't ever pay their bills. And still, they'd probably charge you $40 for this surgery and not $4000. So this argument..cannot be valid.

I have no idea what you're actually trying to say here?

 

[Homerboy]

Agreed. I was talking about something that is less of an emergency maybe they could say seems like your insurance will pay this amount you will be left with about a $3500 bill do you want to continue or try the urgent care place in the morning?

Yeap -- totally agree.

FWIW, I did have some elective surgery a while back (snip! snip!) and I was told of the price upfront and what I would be responsible for. I was shocked when ti was discussed -- however I did SPECIFICALLY ask for what this was going to cost me personally.

And interestingly enough, you CAN do this sort of thing regularly with the DDS. "How much are these sealants going to cost ME? How much will that corrective device cost ME?"

 

[Homerboy]

I handle our finances pretty well -- my wife and kids and I do not live extravagantly nor excessively by any means (small house, single car, rarely dine out or even go on vacations). We are CONTINUOUSLY buried under a never-ending onslaught of medical bills though. It is financially devastating and in turn just puts way undue stress on us and our marriage and our family as a whole. And there is nothing you can do about the bills -- if we're hurt or sick, what are our choices beside medical attention at the pricetags they charge us with?

 

[KMFJD]

Uhm wait. Here in Europe where we have universal healthcare THAT WORKS, we also have the one or the other freeloader who is just leeching off the system, drug addicts, "immigrants" or people who likely won't ever pay their bills. And still, they'd probably charge you $40 for this surgery and not $4000. So this argument..cannot be valid.

american exceptionalism?

 

[vi edit]

FWIW, I did have some elective surgery a while back (snip! snip!) and I was told of the price upfront and what I would be responsible for. I was shocked when ti was discussed -- however I did SPECIFICALLY ask for what this was going to cost me personally.

I paid out of pocket for mine. I used to work for a Catholic Employer and they would not cover things like that or birth control. So I found a guy that most of the doctors in my health system went to for theirs and he gave them a cash deal. I got in on that offer for $600 + another $100 afterwards for the lab check to make sure the pipes were cleared and the supply line was fully disconnected.