This is what happened when I drove my Mercedes to pick up food stamps

[MrPickins]

From what I'm seeing, Warren Buffett now drives a Cadillac. I suppose that's reasonable, considering his income. But I believe he used to drive a Toyota.

And this fool in the OP believes a Mercedes on their meager income is a good idea that people should respect and understand.

You are way too hung up on the brand name.

This is a low end Mercedes, and was already paid off well before their financial troubles.

 

[theeedude]

Unsustainable as we are finding out. People used banks money last 10-15 years to fake prosperity. That well is tapped. They are either maxed out or uncredit worthy. Now what? Can't have consumption without production since no one works for free.

There is no evidence for any of the things you are "finding out."

 

[nehalem256]

You took issue with people voluntarily having kids then expecting government services for those kids. You compared it to an arson to collect fire insurance.
Public education is one of those services, just like food stamps.

I don't think you understand what a service is.

Hint someone giving you a gift card(which is essentially what food stamps are) isn't a service.

 

[Zebo]

There is no evidence for any of the things you are "finding out."

You must have missed financial news last 6 years after banks cut off consumers.

 

[fleshconsumed]

First off the average salary is $51k according to the census bureau. Second there are many tax advantaged options that can reduce your tax burden.

Assuming a 7% ROI if you saved $5k a year for 50 years you'd get to the $2M goal. If you wanted to take some of that $2600/yr the average middle income earner spends on eating out, the $2500/yr on entertainment, or the $800/yr spent on alcohol and tobacco you might get there a bit faster. You can also consider the average household with one income earner has 1.9 cars while the average 2 income earner has 2.4 cars so maybe they could cut back on the cars too - although we can clearly see from this article that thats impossible because people want to 'hang on to something that causes comfort'.

http://www.bls.gov/cex/csxann12.pdf

Your 5K a year turns into 2 millions after 50 years example is way too optimistic and misses some very important details. First of all, if a person retires at 67, in order to save $5000 for 50 years it means they have to start saving at the age of 17. That's pretty much not realistic. Last I heard half of the 17-24 year olds cannot even find a job, and the half that does works pretty much minimum wage. If one chooses to go to college, that's more years that one cannot save for retirement, and 67yo is also optimistic - age discrimination might force you out of labor force before you hit that age. Realistically speaking 25-30 years old is when people can actually afford to start putting away $5000 a year for retirement which only leaves 40 years to save. At 7% annual return the money doubles every 10 years, so having one decade less to save cuts the final amount from 2 millions down to 1 million. Second of all, at 3% inflation rate the purchasing value of money just about halves every 40 years. So that 1 million dollars is actually worth only $500,000 in today's dollars. And that's not including any student loans, kid college saving funds, saving for downpayment, or god forbid any unemployment when a person cannot actually put away money for retirement and has to deplete savings instead, or the fact that as one gets older he's supposed to shift money into bonds which cuts the return rate from 7% down to 5-6.

Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't save fore retirement. They should, and we should encourage more saving. However, this everybody can be a millionaire, it's oh so easy, and you're an idiot of you can't do it mantra needs to stop. Realistically speaking, saving $5K a year is only possible for 40 or so years, and at the end you will end up with $500,000 worth of purchasing power. At 4% withdrawal rate based on 30 year life expectancy that's only good for $20,000 a year. Hardly anything to write home about. Average social security benefits (assuming social security survives in 40 years) is about $1200 per month, that's $34K income at retirement. Assuming the house is paid off this is enough to pay the property taxes, pay utilities, feed yourself, take a road vacation every year, maybe give some presents to your grand kids on Christmas. It's millionaire in name only, has a nice ring to it, but that's about it.

 

[John Connor]

This is just one of many Americans fighting and clawing back from the Abyss that the Bush years bestowed upon us.

Do you know who Barney frank is???

 

[Zebo]

I have total assets of about 1.25 million and I got there on an two average salaries. It really is not that difficult. In 20 years I figure I will have north of $3 or 4 million. We could qualify for financing on a $600K home but we would never consider a home over $250K. We drive reliable Toyotas. My wife is driving a 98 Camry and I'm driving 09 Corolla. The secret is no secret. Live within your means, don't carry non-home debt and max out all your retirement contributions. It sure ain't rocket science.
Home - $150K
Land - $120K
401ks - $750K
Roth Iras - $250K

This. Not rocket sciences at all. But hardly no one does it. I read that over 50% boomers have no savings. GenX which you and i are in even worse.

 

[smackababy]

Do you know who Barney frank is???

No relation to Anne Frank I am guessing?

 

[PricklyPete]

"Millionaire next door" should be a senior class in HS. Getting rich (ie a couple million in assets) is relatively easy can be done on avg wages takes sacrifice and discipline but those are qualities that are positively discouraged by our high-consumption society. Thats thier whole problem.

I agree if only for the perspective it provides.

 

[BoberFett]

You are way too hung up on the brand name.

This is a low end Mercedes, and was already paid off well before their financial troubles.

When the item in question is a luxury (a second car made by a luxury manufacturer) then yes, I focus on the brand name, especially when this person is claiming how awful it is that she got dirty looks when she drove her luxury car to take other people's money to buy her groceries.

Do the people who are paying those taxes so she can eat also get to enjoy a nice drive in a Mercedes on weekends? Or are they driving a beater Chevy?

"Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do to make sure you can afford to keep that Benz." - JFK

My how liberalism has changed.

 

[Cozarkian]

Averaging the risk and saving for the average case instead of saving for worst case risk yourself is the basis for insurance. It's inefficient for everyone to save for worst case themselves

Well, in that case, we should have insurance for routine auto-maintenance, over-the-counter medication, food, clothes, furniture, and well, everything.

Insurance adds to the average cost of whatever it insures, by adding overhead and insurance profit that has to be recouped in premiums. Thus, it shouldn't be used to avoid saving for worst case scenarios, it should be used where you can't afford the worst-case consequence.

The same with extended warranties. If you buy a $1,000 TV and you can afford to pay $1,000 if it breaks (or don't mind being without a TV until you can), don't buy an extended warranty.

The same with a house. If you have 500K in the bank and want to buy a 400K house, don't put 20% down and borrow the rest, buy the house with cash. The same with a car.

If you have enough money saved that you could retire today at your desired standard of living, you don't need life insurance. If you could rebuild your house without batting an eyelash, you don't need fire, earthquake or flood insurance.

 

[smackababy]

People defending this Mercedes purchase are quite mad. Sure, it was a low end Mercedes, that was still well above the price of most other cars. 2003 Honda Accord with literally everything had an MSRP around the base price of that Mercedes.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

When the item in question is a luxury (a second car made by a luxury manufacturer) then yes, I focus on the brand name, especially when this person is claiming how awful it is that she got dirty looks when she drove her luxury car to take other people's money to buy her groceries.

Do the people who are paying those taxes so she can eat also get to enjoy a nice drive in a Mercedes on weekends? Or are they driving a beater Chevy?

"Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do to make sure you can afford to keep that Benz." - JFK

My how liberalism has changed.

The Mercedes was completely paid off before they went broke, so literally zero dollars of taxpayer money went towards it. I'm all for responsible spending, but at what point are you just trying to punish these people for having the audacity to no longer be well off? Oh, you own your car? Well it's too nice a brand for you; sell it and replace it with something lousy. What's that, you live in a house? Sell it (for a massive loss) and rent a shitty apartment; that's what poor people are supposed to do. How dare you buy fresh vegetables and meat to cook on my dime; go and buy store-brand Cheetos and Hamm's like a hobo. How else will I know that you're a lesser being than me?

 

[fleshconsumed]

If you're making 120K thats about 7K a month after tax. House payment was 1.5K where is the other 5.5K? They had no saving because lets be honest these ppl were spend thrifts.

Did "everything right" according to whom? Mortgage brokers who advertise you can afford a 250K house? Or guys like warren buffet or sam walden who lived in a 150K house? I know who I'd rather listen to.

And as far as being out of work for years. Common. illegals with no english can get work everyday. He chose to be out of work. Educated, speaks English, but thought all work was beneath him less than a man. But driving that bitches car told me that already. But with kids and wife refusing work is low down scum.

How is buying $25K car on a $120K income being spend thrifts? A base no frills 2003 automatic Camry cost 20-23K depending on the engine choice, that is within spitting distance of that stupid $25K Kompressor Mercedes. A spend thrift is a person why buys on credit or lives paycheck to paycheck. Their cars were paid off long before they even thought of buying the house or before they went broke. I presume that the Honda was paid off because it broke, new Hondas do not typically break in the first 5-10 years of ownership. And 240K house was only 2x their combined income. Very affordable if they kept their jobs. You're showing your bias when you imply the guy is bitch for buying a "bitches car".

 

[Viper GTS]

The major flaw in the MND style thinking is a couple million isn't rich in any sense of the word if you have to live off of it for the next 20-30 years of your life. This idea of 'oh if I just save $500 a month I'll be rich' needs to be stopped, that's just what people need to do if they don't want to freeze to death in a ditch when they're too old to work.

The concept of 'rich' needs to have some method to account for position in life. Merely having led a reasonably frugal middle class existence is never going to make you rich (though it may well make your children rich-ish), and teaching kids that is setting them up for disappointment.

Viper GTS

 

[ivwshane]

In the mind of a right wing nutter, anything, valid or not, can be used to demonize the needy. It's how they are able to justify their position, it's how, no matter how many facts or anecdotal evidence is provided to them, they are able to maintain their position. Only when they themselves experience the hardship other people talk about do their positions change.

It's why stories like this are pointless, they not only miss the point but even if they did get the point, it wouldn't change them in the slightest.

 

[Viper GTS]

Oh one more thing since we're back on the Mercedes. This is the car in question:

It was probably worth $10k in 2008.

Anybody advocating they sell it to pay their mortgage for a few months while ending up carless is way out of touch with reality.

Viper GTS

 

[BoberFett]

The Mercedes was completely paid off before they went broke, so literally zero dollars of taxpayer money went towards it. I'm all for responsible spending, but at what point are you just trying to punish these people for having the audacity to no longer be well off? Oh, you own your car? Well it's too nice a brand for you; sell it and replace it with something lousy. What's that, you live in a house? Sell it (for a massive loss) and rent a shitty apartment; that's what poor people are supposed to do. How dare you buy fresh vegetables and meat to cook on my dime; go and buy store-brand Cheetos and Hamm's like a hobo. How else will I know that you're a lesser being than me?

You're right, zero tax money went directly to pay for the car itself. Except I assume they maintained Mercedes level auto insurance, while then using taxpayer money to buy food.

How much food would the sale of a $10k car buy?

Luxury goods are for people that can afford them.

It seems there is simply no discussion to be had anymore on the proper role of society. In the mind of "liberals", society apparently now exists to ensure that no hardship ever be endured. That once attained, society is bound to supply any particular level of lifestyle to which a person has become accustomed.

 

[BoberFett]

Oh one more thing since we're back on the Mercedes. This is the car in question:

It was probably worth $10k in 2008.

Anybody advocating they sell it to pay their mortgage for a few months while ending up carless is way out of touch with reality.

Viper GTS

They had another car. Selling the Mercedes would go a long way toward fuel and maintenance on the Honda.

But alas, no sacrifices must ever be made. No hardships endured. What a nation of infants we've become.

 

[Cozarkian]

You know what is far worse than the story in this thread? When someone on WIC goes through the express lane in the grocery store and the whole line is massively delayed because the clerk has to go through the vouchers and approve every item instead of just taking cash or swiping a card.

 

[smackababy]

Oh one more thing since we're back on the Mercedes. This is the car in question:

It was probably worth $10k in 2008.

Anybody advocating they sell it to pay their mortgage for a few months while ending up carless is way out of touch with reality.

Viper GTS

What does a family need 2 cars for when one of them refuses to find work? An educated male being unemployed for years is unacceptable. There are jobs in every city in America. It may not pay as much as you'd like, and it may not be the type of work you want, but $8 an hour is a lot more than $0 an hour. But, of course, selling a luxury car for $10,000 in 2008 when nobody is earning a wage in your household and you have another working car is out of touch with reality...

 

[Zaap]

Anybody advocating they sell it to pay their mortgage for a few months while ending up carless is way out of touch with reality.

Wouldn't have been carless. She would have been down one car, still had the other.

It's hilarious how the author rooked people with the silly title of the article- got people to switch their brains right off.

Told a different way- of the same type people "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, refusing to part with either of their two cars, doing whatever it took to hold on to their house, refusing other people's money to feed themselves and their kids, but steadfastly relying on themselves..."

...the same leftloons would be screaming "Oh, evil, rotten 1%rs!! F you!!!"

There's only virtue in make-believe poverty it seems

 

[Viper GTS]

Wouldn't have been carless. She would have been down one car, still had the other.

It's hilarious how the author rooked people with the silly title of the article- got people to switch their brains right off.

Told a different way- of the same type people "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, refusing to part with either of their two cars, doing whatever it took to hold on to their house, refusing other people's money to feed themselves and their kids, but steadfastly relying on themselves..."

...the same leftloons would be screaming "Oh, evil, rotten 1%rs!! F you!!!"

There's only virtue in make-believe poverty it seems

One unreliable car left is essentially carless when you have two premature children. Particularly with her apparently still working (the 25k income they had left, yes TV really pays that little in entry level positions).

They had another car. Selling the Mercedes would go a long way toward fuel and maintenance on the Honda.

But alas, no sacrifices must ever be made. No hardships endured. What a nation of infants we've become.

Except that it would have gone to prolong their doomed mortgage. At best it would have bought them a couple months.

If it were truly a 'toy' car I'd feel much differently, but if this had been a $10k Camry or Accord nobody would be saying this kind of stuff. A $10,000, well maintained, paid off, known reliable car is not the place to be extracting cash from when you need transportation to look for work and care for your children. Even if it happens to have a Mercedes badge on it.

Viper GTS

 

[ivwshane]

Wouldn't have been carless. She would have been down one car, still had the other.

It's hilarious how the author rooked people with the silly title of the article- got people to switch their brains right off.

Told a different way- of the same type people "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, refusing to part with either of their two cars, doing whatever it took to hold on to their house, refusing other people's money to feed themselves and their kids, but steadfastly relying on themselves..."

...the same leftloons would be screaming "Oh, evil, rotten 1%rs!! F you!!!"

There's only virtue in make-believe poverty it seems

Down to one car? You mean the car that broke down? Had they done what you wanted their situation would have been worse and nothing would have been gained by their short term thinking.

I guess in your eyes, poverty is make believe, because you've got a sure fire fix for everything (except you don't).

 

[xBiffx]

I only have one car. Fuck I'm destitute.