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This is the start of a revolution

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Regardless, implied violence does not make a group responsible for actual violence. Nowhere did any substantial part of the right wing say "go out and kill police officers for America!"

I'll admit our ultra right is currently far more militant in their radicalism than our ultra left (eco-terrorists notwithstanding), but these murders are at best the acts and words of a few fringe morons. If some hateful Catholic kills a person, cites some interpretation of a speech the Pope made, and places a cross on the body, do we blame the Pope?

A free person's conduct is their personal responsibility. It's perfectly human to want to blow this up into an indictment of the entire ultra-right, but that's simply not accurate IMO.

But the main stream makes an environment that allows and legitimises the radical elements to a certain extent.

Taking your example. If the Pope was constantly warning about the dangers of a certain group and that violence was a legitimate tactic to use in certain situations then, yes, I think that the Pope should bare a certain blame for the actions of his followers.
 
Riiiiiight... so gangstas running around the inner cities shooting people are right-wingers. (And quite a fair share of cop-killers to boot).

If anyone is really going to be stupid enough to make gun violence into a right vs left thing, the left has to be more insane, more in denial and even dumber than usual to think they'd actually win such a stupid pissing match.

No one's making simple gun violence a political thing.
It's the quasi political violence with a cause that seems to be far more prevalent with the right wing at the moment in North America.
 
The point is people were seriously all up in arms about violent songs and video games. There was actually a conversation about stricter firearms regulations after the Columbine incident.

Two cops and one armed good guy (who has insufficient knowledge of the tactical situation) dead and people aren't really outraged because it's just another gun incident. They're so common these days...

Were you asleep last year? We had a very long, very intense, very legislatively active "conversation" about gun control and people on both sides were up in arms.

I'd also argue that people shouldn't have ever been up in arms about violent songs and video games; it's one of the most inane, unfounded arguments on the planet.


So the fact that you 🙄 at me puts you squarely in the camp of people who do

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^this.


but why worry? Just need to have more people armed is all. Once everyone 18 and above is armed and open carrying this will be the least violent first world country ever.


You'd think event the NRA could figure that out eh?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/4/nra-backs-down-admits-it-was-a-mistake-to-shame-op/



or maybe not.



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You'd think those pressing for gun control could figure out that banning dumb shit they know nothing about isn't the solution, but no. We've had decades of bullshit gun control proposals that have proven worthless even when they did pass.

To this day every major press for gun control high-balls with a nonsensical ban of some sort, only dropping down to lesser restrictions in the face of political opposition. And you're surprised when gun owners, you know, the people these bans actually affect, galvanize? You're shocked and outraged that after decades of hearing the same tired arguments from the same tired people and organizations, we don't believe said people when they suddenly say all they want is "registration"? And offer us pinkie swears that it won't go any further?

Properly applied gun control could very well help things, and we might have had universal mental health checks and mandatory liability insurance by now if the gun control lobby had acted with a little more tact and a little less rabies. It's clear to gun owners now, with a track record decades long, that any reasonable gun control proposed will only be used as a vehicle for further, unreasonable restrictions in the name of nonsensically trying to legislate guns out of society. In the last year New York in particular has proven the pattern.

That political stalemate leaves us with two options: addressing the root causes of gun violence (mental illness, poverty, culture) and enabling citizens to defend themselves should they encounter it (or any other form of violent assault). The NRA has come out in support of both. I fail to see the issue or any better solution. Perhaps Bloomberg should open a nationwide chain of free mental health clinics, would certainly save more lives than his current efforts; unfortunately him and those like him are more interested in ideology than problem solving.
 
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No one's making simple gun violence a political thing.
It's the quasi political violence with a cause that seems to be far more prevalent with the right wing at the moment in North America.

Sounds like you've been reading too many moonbat blogs.

It's right wingers that hold rallies to free convicted cop-killers? When was the last "Free Mumia! " style campaign held by anyone on the right?

The right promotes music and culture all about killing cops and shooting up inner cities?

So if the right is responsible for this, are you calling out the left as responsible for Chris Dorner?
 
Congrats on making the dumbest post of 2014.

Don't worry. The next time you post will reset the bar. I really mean that. You have the intellect of a wiffle ball.

Now is it unfair of me to take a such a broad brush and paint a whole party with blame for these rotten events?

Perhaps - if only that party hasn't been stoking the delusion fires of their moron members for so many years...
 
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Sounds like you've been reading too many moonbat blogs.

It's right wingers that hold rallies to free convicted cop-killers? When was the last "Free Mumia! " style campaign held by anyone on the right?

The right promotes music and culture all about killing cops and shooting up inner cities?

So if the right is responsible for this, are you calling out the left as responsible for Chris Dorner?

I'm not sure why you're bringing music into this or campaigns to free people.

All I'm saying is that from where I'm looking it's seems much more like a certain sector of the right wing is far more likely to suggest that violence is a legitimate part of the political process, and because of this it makes a much more fertile area for the kind of violent loons that we've been seeing.
 
Regardless, implied violence does not make a group responsible for actual violence. Nowhere did any substantial part of the right wing say "go out and kill police officers for America!"

I'll admit our ultra right is currently far more militant in their radicalism than our ultra left (eco-terrorists notwithstanding), but these murders are at best the acts and words of a few fringe morons. If some hateful Catholic kills a person, cites some interpretation of a speech the Pope made, and places a cross on the body, do we blame the Pope?

A free person's conduct is their personal responsibility. It's perfectly human to want to blow this up into an indictment of the entire ultra-right, but that's simply not accurate IMO.

The left likes to forget little items like the Occupy people that planned and were attempting to blow up a bridge in Ohio...

Domestic terrorism takes many forms, different tactics perhaps, but pointing the finger and claiming it is always right wing fanatics is dishonest.
 
All I'm saying is that from where I'm looking ...
in other words, from your bubble of moonbat blogs.

Yeah, why is someone bringing up all the things that could be said to be the left supporting violent loons- you know, all the stuff that you ignore, excuse, don't know about in the first place because moonbat.org didn't cover it... you just want to point fingers at the right.

Too funny! But typical.
 
Guns make you capable of defending yourself. Democrats always did have a problem with opportunity when the outcome is not guaranteed. You'd rather take your chances with the police? 20 minutes for a response, 45 minutes for a SWAT.

How long do you think you have, when maniacs go on a shooting spree?

I have a problem with a solution that says arm everyone in a given situation.

In a crowded movie theater I would have a better change of surviving if one law abiding person was armed and nut had clips with limited capacity.

If 30 people started shooting or if nut had 500 round clip better chance I would get shot.
 
I have a problem with a solution that says arm everyone in a given situation.

In a crowded movie theater I would have a better change of surviving if one law abiding person was armed and nut had clips with limited capacity.

If 30 people started shooting or if nut had 500 round clip better chance I would get shot.

Unless you were in Aurora. That mass shooting takes the cake for why no one was armed and everyone was in grave danger.
 
Did the fact that Cliven Bundy's 'gang' scared off the Feds give gun rights advocates a major win? Anytime we talk guns someone mentions their belief that the reason for the 2nd amendment is to keep the government from "treading on me."
 
I forgot, are we talking about gun control or my attitude? Because if it's the latter I'm not even sure what you're accusing me of anymore; not that I particularly give a shit.

Of course you don't give a shit....

this country collective doesn't either

Another shooting?

dnno.gif


oh well....



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in other words, from your bubble of moonbat blogs.

Yeah, why is someone bringing up all the things that could be said to be the left supporting violent loons- you know, all the stuff that you ignore, excuse, don't know about in the first place because moonbat.org didn't cover it... you just want to point fingers at the right.

Too funny! But typical.

Seriously, you don't think that constantly saying "guns are the way to deal with an overbearing government" and then saying "our government is overbearing" might cause some people to make the massive leap that they think that guns are the way to deal with the government?

Also I have no idea what moonbat.org is but carry on...
 
Not really, it's just that there aren't any easy, quick-fix solutions to problems like this.

It's also that a large segment of this country's population is against doing the (admittedly not so easy) things necessary that would as a practical effect reduce societal ills including including instances of mental illness, violence in general, addiction, and teenage pregnancy.

In fact many people who tend to hold 2A sacrosanct are also in many cases rather strongly opposed to the not so easy actions that would help reduce many societal ills. These action don't really have anything to do with more firearms regulations either.

So in effect collectively no one gives a fuck anyways.

and this still applies.

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OH FUCK FUCK FUCK !!!
The crazy gun loving revolution loonies are going to spoil it for the rest of us non-complicated non-violent loonies.
FUCK!
 
Don't worry. The next time you post will reset the bar. I really mean that. You have the intellect of a wiffle ball.

Ah, insults from the "tolerant" left. How shocked I am!

Now is it unfair of me to take a such a broad brush and paint a whole party with blame for these rotten events?

Perhaps - if only that party hasn't been stoking the delusion fires of their moron members for so many years...
Blaming a party or anyone besides the assailants and claiming they have "blood on their hands" because two lunatics shot and killed three people is the typical knee-jerk reaction from the wrist-wringing, lip-biting crowd of which you're a member. I'm not surprised someone like you would post such reactionary drivel, but congrats on the dumbest post of 2014 award, regardless of how brief it might be -- I suspect you'll soon be eclipsed by your other friends in this forum.
 
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So in effect collectively no one gives a fuck anyways.

Basically. There is a shooting everyday somewhere on this planet. I find it ironic that so many millions of people flee their countries to come to America to escape the gun violence perpetrated by their governments, or drug cartels, or whoever; and here you have supposed Americans like yourself spreading this idiocy to the masses.
 
To those macho men who feel the need to be armed wherever they go...

These cops were armed and were killed in cold blood, their weapons then stolen from them. If you think that couldn't ever be you then you are really stupid. I'm a near lifetime gun owner and Second Amendment supporter. I am getting sick of this shit, something needs to be done.

Mark my words, if responsible gun owners don't get behind some responsible changes in the law, a day will come when public outrage will build to the point that politicians will overreact and enact draconian gun laws.

:thumbsup: It's only a matter of time. Gun owners are their own worst enemy. They like to think they're all sane rational people just looking out for the greater good but they aren't.
 
Basically. There is a shooting everyday somewhere on this planet. I find it ironic that so many millions of people flee their countries to come to America to escape the gun violence perpetrated by their governments, or drug cartels, or whoever; and here you have supposed Americans like yourself spreading this idiocy to the masses.

People could escape to other first world countries and leave their violent governments without having to worry too much about violence (or at least much less so than here in America). Ever wonder why? it's not mainly because of gun laws but that is one factor.

I'm more American than some here by a standard that some jingoist assholes judge that characteristic by.

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