This is the most anti-bush/liberal forum I have ever seen...

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: busmaster11

I'd love to have the mods come in here and evaluate this thread. Political and religious views aside, from the beginning who's offered more and who's done more trolling? And whichever one of us is the troll, how about a little vacation from AT?

How about it mods?

How about you live by your "I dont judge anyone" and get out of here! You just cant let it go. Such pride for such a "meat of the Word" guy! LOL!

YGPM

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Murder is universally accepted as a sin/wrong/immoral. It has nothing to do with the Bible other than the fact the Bible mentions a Universally accepted wrong.

Where do you think we got the concept that murder is wrong? THE BIBLE!

Wrong. The concept pre-dates the Bible and is far more pervasive.

Originally posted by: sandorski
Abortion is murder? The Bible is far more vague on this subject than Pro-Life/Anti-Arbortionists are. In fact, the Biblical arguement Jehovahs Witnesses put forward against Blood Transfusions makes more sense than the arguement against abortion.

Maybe you should read your Bible more then because the Bible speficially says that when we were in the womb before we were even born, God knew each of us.

You just changed the subject. That is hardly the same as the Bible unambiguously stating abortion is wrong. It is your opinion, your application of that passage out of context to support your preconceived conclusion. Much of the Christian (or more accurately, Puritan) morality comes from using snippets of the Bible to support pre-existing beliefs. That doesn't mean you are always wrong, but you need to recognize the Bible is far less explicit in support of your Puritan beliefs than you pretend it is. Much -- not all, but much -- is open to interpretation, which is why there is so much diversity in Christian beliefs among the various denominations.

While I'm on my soapbox, the thing the drove me away from fundamentalist Christianity is the way people like you are such poor witnesses for Christ, picking and choosing a few Biblical teachings to use as clubs against others while ignoring His core teachings. Your judgmental and hurtful approach to "religion" bears little in common with Jesus' message of love, tolerance, and compassion for others. The same goes for your politics. In my opinion, based on what I've read here, you would do well to follow the lead of Busmaster11. There's a Christian I can respect. His beliefs and attitudes are much more in tune with Jesus than yours.

Any chance you will acknowledge your error about murder, and will address any of the points many have raised (including mine in the two paragraphs above)? Others have compared you to Rip, and while I think you're a better writer than he was, he had the same trait of simply ignoring anything that contradicted him. It is not an admirable trait and doesn't help your credibility.

Apparently not.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Murder is universally accepted as a sin/wrong/immoral. It has nothing to do with the Bible other than the fact the Bible mentions a Universally accepted wrong.

Where do you think we got the concept that murder is wrong? THE BIBLE!

Wrong. The concept pre-dates the Bible and is far more pervasive.

Originally posted by: sandorski
Abortion is murder? The Bible is far more vague on this subject than Pro-Life/Anti-Arbortionists are. In fact, the Biblical arguement Jehovahs Witnesses put forward against Blood Transfusions makes more sense than the arguement against abortion.

Maybe you should read your Bible more then because the Bible speficially says that when we were in the womb before we were even born, God knew each of us.

You just changed the subject. That is hardly the same as the Bible unambiguously stating abortion is wrong. It is your opinion, your application of that passage out of context to support your preconceived conclusion. Much of the Christian (or more accurately, Puritan) morality comes from using snippets of the Bible to support pre-existing beliefs. That doesn't mean you are always wrong, but you need to recognize the Bible is far less explicit in support of your Puritan beliefs than you pretend it is. Much -- not all, but much -- is open to interpretation, which is why there is so much diversity in Christian beliefs among the various denominations.

While I'm on my soapbox, the thing the drove me away from fundamentalist Christianity is the way people like you are such poor witnesses for Christ, picking and choosing a few Biblical teachings to use as clubs against others while ignoring His core teachings. Your judgmental and hurtful approach to "religion" bears little in common with Jesus' message of love, tolerance, and compassion for others. The same goes for your politics. In my opinion, based on what I've read here, you would do well to follow the lead of Busmaster11. There's a Christian I can respect. His beliefs and attitudes are much more in tune with Jesus than yours.

Any chance you will acknowledge your error about murder, and will address any of the points many have raised (including mine in the two paragraphs above)? Others have compared you to Rip, and while I think you're a better writer than he was, he had the same trait of simply ignoring anything that contradicted him. It is not an admirable trait and doesn't help your credibility.

Apparently not.

I think his exchanges with Busmaster reveal his true intentions/abilities. Hardly worth the effort.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Wrong. The concept (of murder) pre-dates the Bible and is far more pervasive.

Pre-dated or not, the point was that the Bible says that killing is a sin and that is exactly what you do when you have an abortion.

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
You just changed the subject. That is hardly the same as the Bible unambiguously stating abortion is wrong. It is your opinion, your application of that passage out of context to support your preconceived conclusion. Much of the Christian (or more accurately, Puritan) morality comes from using snippets of the Bible to support pre-existing beliefs. That doesn't mean you are always wrong, but you need to recognize the Bible is far less explicit in support of your Puritan beliefs than you pretend it is. Much -- not all, but much -- is open to interpretation, which is why there is so much diversity in Christian beliefs among the various denominations.

Not that I agree but Just because you say much is open to interpretation does not mean each interpretation is correct. In fact, I would chalenge you to show me where in the Bible it says it is alright today for us to kill someone.

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
While I'm on my soapbox, the thing the drove me away from fundamentalist Christianity is the way people like you are such poor witnesses for Christ, picking and choosing a few Biblical teachings to use as clubs against others while ignoring His core teachings. Your judgmental and hurtful approach to "religion" bears little in common with Jesus' message of love, tolerance, and compassion for others. The same goes for your politics. In my opinion, based on what I've read here, you would do well to follow the lead of Busmaster11. There's a Christian I can respect. His beliefs and attitudes are much more in tune with Jesus than yours.

Hey if I was going to judge Christianity by those who follow it I would be long gone by now too. I've been burned more by Christians then i had before I was saved. But I don't let how a man treats me define how God loves me. Follow Bushmasyrt you want. I'll follow what the Word says.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Wrong. The concept (of murder) pre-dates the Bible and is far more pervasive.

Pre-dated or not, the point was that the Bible says that killing is a sin and that is exactly what you do when you have an abortion.

Prove it.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Wrong. The concept (of murder) pre-dates the Bible and is far more pervasive.

Pre-dated or not, the point was that the Bible says that killing is a sin and that is exactly what you do when you have an abortion.

Prove it.

He can't.

I can see that in 100 or so years, people who still preach to others according to some words written by man supposedly from the mouth of God will live in outcast communes after being ostracized from humanity. Anyone who can not see that the Bible was written to try and keep man in line by other MEN and not some God is not worthy of debating. This coming from a Catholic who woke up and realized organized religion was just a money making scheme that uses fear and shame to placate the masses.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
I can see that in 100 or so years, people who still preach to others according to some words written by man supposedly from the mouth of God will live in outcast communes after being ostracized from humanity. Anyone who can not see that the Bible was written to try and keep man in line by other MEN and not some God is not worthy of debating. This coming from a Catholic who woke up and realized organized religion was just a money making scheme that uses fear and shame to placate the masses.

Wow thanks for the laugh!:laugh:

 

[umbrella39]

No problem, it is the least I could do for the countless laughs you have provided the group in this thread alone. :thumbsup:

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
No problem, it is the least I could do for the countless laughs you have provided the group in this thread alone. :thumbsup:

Most people who dont want to abide by certain rules do find the Bible laughable. Oh well, you must be smarter then I am!

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
No problem, it is the least I could do for the countless laughs you have provided the group in this thread alone. :thumbsup:

Most people who dont want to abide by certain rules do find the Bible laughable. Oh well, you must be smarter then I am!

Right back at you for again, like you have done countless times in this thread, preaching to the choir and putting your own spin on the Good Book.

One does not need a Bible to live ones life according to how they feel God would want them to. I don't need false prophets in my life any more than I need a 2nd a$$hole.

Kthx.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
One does not need a Bible to live ones life according to how they feel God would want them to.

Your biggest misconception right there! Of course you need the Bible! Otherwise people like you get off on whatever makes them feel good!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Your biggest misconception right there! Of course you need the Bible! Otherwise people like you get off on whatever makes them feel good!

vs. whatever makes them feel guilty (and is done anyway) ...gotcha

why not take responsibility for your actions and save the trip to confession and the spare changing from the clergy that goes with it?



geez at least when I give spare change to the homebum in front of the liquor store I know it is going to a good time that night, not brainwashing some poor kid in the mountains of chile.

A hangover wears off, christian guilt can have you feeling like crap all your life!

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
One does not need a Bible to live ones life according to how they feel God would want them to.

Your biggest misconception right there! Of course you need the Bible! Otherwise people like you get off on whatever makes them feel good!

There you go again, preaching just like Jesus would want you to do. </sarcasm>

Sounds like you need a crutch to live your life and a book to tell you what is right and wrong, must suck to be that weak. 🙁

See your whole "People like you line" completely explains your delusion and your hypocrisy. Quit while you are way behind, you are only making your wait in purgatory that much longer. :laugh:

 

[inhotep]

Originally posted by: Corbett
What's with the constant Bush bashing here? I mean, I love talking politics and all but most of you just seem to hate absolutely ANYTHING that has to do with the White House or this current administration. Why?

I don't hate him or the White House. However, I think the founding fathers, and the few designers of the white house would be ashamed.

Why? because more bad news are coming from that admin than good news and yes I can provide credible sources.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: busmaster11
Apologies to everyone again for how this has degenerated. I will *try* to keep from posting again unless I have something insightful to offer.

Should have stopped a long time ago then! And yer still a hypoctrite!

I'd love to have the mods come in here and evaluate this thread. Political and religious views aside, from the beginning who's offered more and who's done more trolling? And whichever one of us is the troll, how about a little vacation from AT?

How about it mods?

Don't you know the 11th Commandment???

Do not ye tempt the mods. For they are your God and will not be tempted lest they smite you with a powerful fist and end the days of your membership.

 

[BBond]

BTW, Retired Army colonel Lawrence Wilkerson is decidely anti-Bush.

Does that make him a "liberal"?

The White House is sweating out the possibility that one or more top officials will soon be indicted on criminal charges. But the Bush administration is immune to prosecution for its greatest offense - its colossal and profoundly tragic incompetence.

Lawrence Wilkerson, a retired Army colonel who served as chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell, addressed the administration's arrogance and ineptitude in a talk last week that was astonishingly candid by Washington standards.

"We have courted disaster in Iraq, in North Korea, in Iran," said Mr. Wilkerson. "Generally, with regard to domestic crises like Katrina, Rita ... we haven't done very well on anything like that in a long time. And if something comes along that is truly serious, something like a nuclear weapon going off in a major American city, or something like a major pandemic, you are going to see the ineptitude of this government in a way that will take you back to the Declaration of Independence."

The investigation of Karl Rove, Scooter Libby et al. is the most sensational story coming out of Washington at the moment. But the story with the gravest implications for the U.S. and the world is the overall dysfunction of the Bush regime. This is a bomb going "Tick, tick, tick . . ." What is the next disaster that this crowd will be unprepared to cope with? Or the next lunatic idea that will spring from its ideological bag of tricks?

Mr. Wilkerson gave his talk before an audience at the New America Foundation, an independent public policy institute. On the all-important matter of national security, which many voters had seen as the strength of the administration, Mr. Wilkerson said:

"The case that I saw for four-plus years was a case that I have never seen in my studies of aberrations, bastardizations, perturbations, changes to the national security decision-making process. What I saw was a cabal between the vice president of the United States, Richard Cheney, and the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, on critical issues that made decisions that the bureaucracy did not know were being made."

When the time came to implement the decisions, said Mr. Wilkerson, they were "presented in such a disjointed, incredible way that the bureaucracy often didn't know what it was doing as it moved to carry them out."

Where was the president? According to Mr. Wilkerson, "You've got this collegiality there between the secretary of defense and the vice president, and you've got a president who is not versed in international relations and not too much interested in them either."

One of the consequences of this dysfunction, as I have noted many times, is the unending parade of dead or badly wounded men and women returning to the U.S. from the war in Iraq - a war that the administration foolishly launched but now does not know how to win or end.

Mr. Wilkerson was especially critical of the excessive secrecy that surrounded so many of the most important decisions by the Bush administration, and of what he felt was a general policy of concentrating too much power in the hands of a small group of insiders. As much as possible, government in the United States is supposed to be open and transparent, and a fundamental principle is that decision-making should be subjected to a robust process of checks and balances.

While not "evaluating the decision to go to war," Mr. Wilkerson told his audience that under the present circumstances "we can't leave Iraq. We simply can't." In his view, if American forces were to pull out too quickly, the U.S. would end up returning to the Middle East with "five million men and women under arms" within a decade.

Nevertheless, he is appalled at the way the war was launched and conducted, and outraged by "the detainee abuse issue." In 10 years, he said, when this matter is "put to the acid test, ironed out, and people have looked at it from every angle, we are going to be ashamed of what we allowed to happen."

Mr. Wilkerson said he has taken some heat for speaking out, but feels that "as a citizen of this great republic," he has an obligation to do so. If nothing is done about the current state of affairs, he said, "it's going to get even more dangerous than it already is."

Link

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
There you go again, preaching just like Jesus would want you to do. </sarcasm>

Sounds like you need a crutch to live your life and a book to tell you what is right and wrong, must suck to be that weak. 🙁

See your whole "People like you line" completely explains your delusion and your hypocrisy. Quit while you are way behind, you are only making your wait in purgatory that much longer. :laugh:

Hah. Crutch. And your crutch is your brain. You think you know everything. And purgatory is nowhere in the Bible. Good thing you don't believe, I can see why. You had it wrong all along! I can keep going if you'd like to.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
One does not need a Bible to live ones life according to how they feel God would want them to.

Your biggest misconception right there! Of course you need the Bible! Otherwise people like you get off on whatever makes them feel good!

Perhaps so, but that's also exactly what you do as well. You pick and choose the bits that support your sect's dogma and ignore everything else.

That's the problem with the Judeo-Christian Bible; there's so much there and it's often so ambiguous that people can justify almost anything by spinning select verses out of context. Much as you wish to insist otherwise, you are following your church's interpretation of God's word, NOT the literal, unquestionable, one-and-only true version of God's word.

More to the point, however, is the misplaced priorities of so many of those who claim to follow the Bible. I'm quite willing to believe the Judeo-Christian Bible probably suggests abortion is wrong, though not with the certainty and clarity you claim. So what? According to your Bible, thousands of things are wrong. What puts abortion on the top of your list? How do your scripturally justify making the abortion issue your overriding priority? What makes abortion the one issue that warrants ignoring the rest?

It certainly isn't its prominence in your Bible. Many "sins" are identified explicitly and repeatedly throughout your Bible. Abortion is, at best, a vague footnote. As far as I know, Christ never mentions it at all. He does, however, repeatedly and emphatically preach about love and compassion and tolerance. It would seem Christ put a far higher priority there than on abortion. Why do you presume your judgment is more valid than His?

In my opinion, evangelical Christians have been manipulated into ignoring Christ's teachings to fixate on that single issue. The Republican machine has duped them into believing they'll do something about it. They never will outlaw abortion, of course; it would cost them too many votes. Instead, they'll keep stringing you along, tossing you a bone now and then, but that's it. You're being played. There are no end of good Republican individuals, but I don't see the Republican party embodying Christ's core messages of compassion and tolerance, healing the sick, feeding the poor, eschewing material riches, etc. How, exactly do you rationalize that they do so better than Democrats?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Wrong. The concept (of murder) pre-dates the Bible and is far more pervasive.

Pre-dated or not, the point was that the Bible says that killing is a sin and that is exactly what you do when you have an abortion.

You're changing the subject again. That isn't what you said:

• "Where do you think we got the concept that murder is wrong? THE BIBLE!"

You were wrong.

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
You just changed the subject. That is hardly the same as the Bible unambiguously stating abortion is wrong. It is your opinion, your application of that passage out of context to support your preconceived conclusion. Much of the Christian (or more accurately, Puritan) morality comes from using snippets of the Bible to support pre-existing beliefs. That doesn't mean you are always wrong, but you need to recognize the Bible is far less explicit in support of your Puritan beliefs than you pretend it is. Much -- not all, but much -- is open to interpretation, which is why there is so much diversity in Christian beliefs among the various denominations.

Not that I agree but Just because you say much is open to interpretation does not mean each interpretation is correct. In fact, I would chalenge you to show me where in the Bible it says it is alright today for us to kill someone.

That's a straw man (though I love the deceptive way you worded it, given that the Old Testament is full of examples of wholsesale murder under God's banner). I did not say the Bible says it's OK to kill people today. I did say your claim that the Bible specifically condemns abortion is not as clear and unambiguous as you pretend. More generally, much of today's fundamentalist Christian morality is a product of your Puritan heritage, rationalized by selective interpretation of bits and pieces of the Bible.

You are correct that not all interpretations are correct. What you refuse to acknowledge is that your sect's interpretation is no less fallible than anyone else's. It is your opinion, no more, no less.

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
While I'm on my soapbox, the thing the drove me away from fundamentalist Christianity is the way people like you are such poor witnesses for Christ, picking and choosing a few Biblical teachings to use as clubs against others while ignoring His core teachings. Your judgmental and hurtful approach to "religion" bears little in common with Jesus' message of love, tolerance, and compassion for others. The same goes for your politics. In my opinion, based on what I've read here, you would do well to follow the lead of Busmaster11. There's a Christian I can respect. His beliefs and attitudes are much more in tune with Jesus than yours.

Hey if I was going to judge Christianity by those who follow it I would be long gone by now too. I've been burned more by Christians then i had before I was saved. But I don't let how a man treats me define how God loves me. Follow Bushmasyrt you want. I'll follow what the Word says.

Again, it's your interpretaion of the "Word". You are a fallible human being. You make mistakes.

 

[aigomorla]

all i have to say is this:

Goto www.yahoo.com under search type incompetent
see what hit u get as number 1.

WOW

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
all i have to say is this:

Goto www.yahoo.com under search type incompetent
see what hit u get as number 1.

WOW

:thumbsup:

Sadly it is the truth 🙁

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
There you go again, preaching just like Jesus would want you to do. </sarcasm>

Sounds like you need a crutch to live your life and a book to tell you what is right and wrong, must suck to be that weak. 🙁

See your whole "People like you line" completely explains your delusion and your hypocrisy. Quit while you are way behind, you are only making your wait in purgatory that much longer. :laugh:

Hah. Crutch. And your crutch is your brain. You think you know everything. And purgatory is nowhere in the Bible. Good thing you don't believe, I can see why. You had it wrong all along! I can keep going if you'd like to.

LMAO. You make less sense with every post. If that is even possible.

You sound like Ben Stiller in Dodge Ball with that last witty comeback. Ha ha ha. I am not a theologian, but I am pretty sure someone with your malfunction will not have to even worry about purgatory. You are headed elsewhere. The :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

if you haven't realized by now Corbett is simply trolling to get a reaction out of people. i'm pretty sure this guy does not seriously believe what he is saying, just trying to get a cheap laugh for himself.

 

[Zepper]

Boy, the OP must be a glutton for punishment.

. It is also amazing to me that so many that one would assume to be capable of rational/logical thought (this being a technical forum) don't demonstrate that capacity whatsoever. I'm sure that they, pretty much to a man, have bought the Rosa Parks (RIP) mythology hook, line and sinker. When there is sufficient evidence that it was almost entirely a fabrication of the american left.

.bh.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Zepper
When there is sufficient evidence that it was almost entirely a fabrication of the american left.

.bh.

sentence fragment.