This is my repsonse to all gun advocates

[DaBoneHead]

fdisk,

My point, and the point reemed up CH arse, was that sure they *might* have helped in a columbine situation, but how many columbine situations do we really have? 1.


If you armed teachers, in the chaos of schools the guns would just get lifted. Also, in a stressful situation a teacher might go off the deep end and whack students. Or, what if a fight in a hall breaks out and a teacher overreacts and starts shooting?


Bringing guns into schools, regardless of whose hands they are in, is just a plain bad idea.

Enforcing existing gun laws is where we must start, however, I don't even see how that could have changed anything about columbine. Those kids were bent on destruction. And PG is right about this one, it does have alot to do with parents not stopping them... they had to know something was up.

 

[Dameon]

Son shoots man attacking dad
Father said stranger was strangling him

By Veronica Chapin
Times-Union staff writer

Saturday, November 25, 2000
Story last updated at 1:26 a.m. on Saturday, November 25, 2000

Originally published at http://jacksonville.com.


Making an unexpected visit to his father's house in North Jacksonville Friday morning, Dwayne McDowell Smith arrived to find him being choked and fatally shot the attacker, police said.

No charges had been filed late Friday.

The father, James McDowell Smith, 66, said he had been approached three times that morning by an unidentified young man before he was attacked from behind at his home at 4149 Lockhart Drive.

Smith said he was doing yard work when the stranger first approached and said he was from Atlanta and was trying to find a store that sold pancake syrup. After getting directions and leaving, the man came back for more information and returned again about 10:30 a.m. asking for change for $20.

After Smith said he didn't have it, the young man followed him to the back yard and grabbed him from behind in a choke hold, he said.

Dwayne Smith, 31, was stopping by to visit his father and saw him struggling with the man, who police said was about 18.

"He grabbed me with a choke hold and we scuffled for about three minutes when my son came up and I said, 'Shoot him, Dwayne,' and he did," James Smith said.

The son got a gun from his car and fired several shots at the man, striking him once in the shoulder, homicide Sgt. Rick Parker said.

The man climbed the backyard fence and died in a neighbor's yard. The father and son were taken to the Sheriff's Office for questioning.

Police said the investigation into the shooting is continuing.

The father said he couldn't break free from the man and was losing his breath. He said he thinks the man would have killed him.

"He was looking for trouble, and he got it," James Smith said.

The father said he is sore and has scratches and broken eyeglasses but is grateful to be alive.

"The Lord must have sent him [Dwayne] around here this morning," James Smith said of the unexpected morning visit.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Dameon]

3 hit car, soon regret it
By Ann Givens
of the Sentinel Staff

Published in The Orlando Sentinel on November 29, 2000

http://www.orlandosentinel.com



Call it road rage gone right.

When a car clipped Eliseo Nunez's Nissan on Lee Road, the Orlando medical assistant wasn't about to let the driver get away.

Nunez gave chase Tuesday morning, following the car onto Interstate 4. And when three men stopped the car, climbed out and aimed guns at him, Nunez grabbed his own gun and fired.

Nunez was after justice -- and that was before he knew the trio were suspects in a robbery.

Orange County deputy sheriffs said Franz Paul, 20, Jean David, 18, and Tony Elzar, 24, had just robbed the Cash America Pawn Shop on Lee Road when they collided with Nunez's car and kept going.

Moments before, the suspects had held seven people at gunpoint in the store's walk-in safe while they grabbed thousands of dollars in cash and jewelry, according to witnesses.

Deputies got the call about the robbery about 10:20 a.m. A few minutes later, they got several more calls -- including one from Nunez on his car phone as he was speeding after the suspects.

The suspects' car pulled to the side along I-4, with Nunez right behind. At least two of the men had small caliber semiautomatic handguns. Nunez said he fired a few times at the men as they fled.

Deputies caught up with them at the corner of Formosa and Miller avenues. Two of the men had climbed a tree. The third, who had fled a few blocks away onto Midiron Drive, was caught by police dogs, which bit him several times, deputies said.

The cash and jewelry were found in the car and spilled on the ground nearby. The men were still being interviewed Tuesday evening and had not yet been charged.

Employees at Cash America Pawn said they were afraid for their lives when the suspects drew guns on them. In addition to the store's three employees, there were four customers in the store, including a woman with a baby.

"I was worried about the little child and the mother in there," said Al Ried, the store's assistant manager. "But I knew that if we cooperated it would be all right."

Sheriff's officers Tuesday called Nunez a "Good Samaritan." They don't plan to bring any charges against him. However, they never recommend that civilians use deadly force unless absolutely necessary, Sheriff's Office spokesman Jim Solomons said.

Deputies said Nunez fired four or five times, but he said he could not be sure if the suspects ever fired at him. Witnesses said they heard as many as 10 shots, although deputies hadn't confirmed that.

Officers said Nunez has a gun permit.

"He was chasing robbery suspects. I love it," Capt. James Hollomon said.

Nunez said chasing down the men was not easy, but he doesn't consider himself a hero. His car's airbag opened when the suspects` car hit him, and he drove the rest of the chase with the airbag open.

"Thank goodness I'm alive," he said.

 

[Dameon]

If you want to swap stories, fine. I can give you 300 + easily.

 

[glenn1]

Classy, you have the best intentions in your beliefs, i believe. The only problem is, as others have pointed out, that the Constitution specifically prohibits "taking away the guns" which you call a good first start. Now, we can all argue until we're blue in the face whether or not repealing the Second Amendment would be a good idea, but Handgun Control, Inc. and the other groups of a similiar nature (and you) need to be honest and admit this up front. Otherwise, it's a pointless exercise.

Rather than taking the approach that we should just take all the guns away (which like i said, until the Constitution is amended, if ever - and i don't think it will), why not volunteer to help with a domestic violence center, firearms safety instruction course, offering to be a mentor and or Big Brother/Sister, or something else constructive which might actually help prevent a tradgedy? You obviously have good ideals, and haven't yet turned cynical, so channel some of that passion into CONSTRUCTIVE activity, rather than finding links about tradgedies.

 

[Dameon]

Suspect flees when clerk pulls out gun
Journal News, Winston-Salem, North Carolina
http://www.JournalNow.com
November 11, 2000

A would-be robber fled from a convenience store yesterday afternoon when the owner pulled a gun and ordered him to drop the items he had taken, police said.

Winston-Salem police arrested Devon Lester Webster, 41, as he ran down an access ramp from Broad Street to Business 40. Webster, of 228 Terrace Ave., was charged with robbery with a dangerous weapon and resisting an officer.

He was being held in the Forsyth County Jail last night with bond set at $25,000.

Police said that a man entered the Fairway One Stop at 225 S. Broad St. about 2:30. The man got a six-pack of beer, placed it on the counter and asked store owner Hyeon Sun Jung for credit. Jung refused. Police said the man then started putting candy and cigars in his pocket, took out a large knife and demanded money from Jung.

Jung pulled out a gun and told the man to put down the items and drop the knife, police said. The man dropped the knife and the items and ran from the store.

A Winston-Salem police officer saw the man running on the access ramp a few minutes later and arrested him.

 

[DaBoneHead]

Russ,


Answer: You can't. So don't try.


That's what we I think agree on. Banning guns won't work in the US, however, passing laws that control who has (like no ex-con) might. Gun control and Banning Guns really are two different things altogether. It is the NRA who wants you to group those two together, and thus confuse the issue. Gun control is about background checks, and 7-day wait periods, and purchasing only through a legal vendor, and registering all firearms. Does any of that really sound bad? Charleton Heston thinks so...

 

[Dameon]

77-year-old Los Angeles Man Shoots Prowler after Being Fired Upon


By ROBERTO J. MANZANO

Originally published at http://www.LATimes.com


After confronting a prowler who shot at him, a 77-year-old man returned fire and wounded the gunman early Saturday, Los Angeles police said.

The intruder escaped and the resident was not injured, police said.

According to Los Angeles police, the shooting occurred about 4:50 a.m., when Devonshire Division officers responded to a radio call about a prowler in the 10600 block of Sylvia Avenue.

The resident was sleeping in his second-story bedroom when he was awakened by a noise and a light outside the door.

The husband became concerned about his 74-year-old disabled wife, who was sleeping downstairs, so he grabbed a handgun and went to check. While searching the house, he confronted the gunman, who fired his weapon.

 

[fdiskboy]

Well, DaBoneHead,

We agree on some points, and not on others. Ain't America grand?

 

[Dameon]

DaBoneHead, the problem is that the people at the forefront of the pro gun control side ARE for complete gun bans, and THAT is why we fight them. They want the whole thing. They want all gund gone. We are forced to say NO to everything because they will not stop.

"I know it's in the Constitution. But you know what? Enough! I would like to say, I think there should be a law--and I know this is extreme--that no one can have a gun in the U.S. If you have a gun, you go to jail. Only the police should have guns. It's ridiculous."
Rosie O'Donnell during interview with Carolyn McCarthy as quoted in the Ottawa Sun, April 29, 1999, at 55

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of Americans to feel safe."
U.S. Senator Diane Feinstein, quoted by AP, 11/18/93

Rosie O was major part of million mom march. Until she and Diane Feinstein are no longer in a position of power, WE WILL HAVE PEOPLE IN POWER WHO WANT TO TAKE ALL GUNS AWAY. Until they are gone, America's gun owners are in danger... because someone might actually listen to them.

 

[BoberFett]

Dameon beat me to it.

Many at the forefront of the push for control see it only as a starting point with the final goal the complete banning of any firearm.

 

[Balt]

Yes, and while we are at it... BAN KITCHEN KNIVES!!!

I hear those are used in quite a bit in homicides, probably not used much for self-defense though (which guns are).

I recommend strict laws prohibiting anyone but law enforcement from having access to kitchen knives (and I guess professional chefs too). They would need a permit, though.

 

[Dameon]

Pizza man holds suspect at bay until cops arrive


October 29, 2000

Originally published at http://www.sunherald.com

CLARKSDALE, Mississippi - It was a pizza standoff. Of sorts.

Clarksdale police, called Thursday night to a report of gunfire, found a pizza deliveryman and an accused highwayman squared off with handguns.

Assistant Police Chief Tim Fortenberry said 15-year-old Michael Williams picked the wrong victim.

Fortenberry said a masked Williams is accused of pulling a handgun on a pizza delivery man at the Plantation Inn.

The victim, whose name is not being released by police, pulled his own gun and held Williams at bay until police arrived.

"It was a standoff there for a while," said Fortenberry. "They were both pointing weapons at each other. The victim called for help and, getting no response, fired a shot into the air. That's when we were called."

Fortenberry said the suspect and the victim surrendered their weapons without incident.

"I think Mr. Williams was quite concerned when the victim pulled his own gun. I think his primary concern suddenly became his own safety," Fortenberry.

Williams has been charged with armed robbery and was being held Saturday at the Clarksdale jail.

 

[Ulfwald]

Classy, I resent that remark. I have never joined a militia, but I once was a volunteer sherrif in Atlanta GA. I was shot while on duty one night, but I still believe in the right to bear arms.

You are a typical liberal. Resorting to name calling and accusations when confronted with rock solid facts.

don't ever make accusations you have no evidence to back up. :|

 

[sweetrobin]

My dad had a gun for just about every room of our house growing up (and we had a pretty good size house). He also taught my brother how to use them by the time we were 9 or so. No one has ever been killed by any of my dads guns. And my brother and I never used them for any crime. And as for suicidal teens ... thats an interesting thing ... from the time I was 10 till the time I was about 14 I was ver suicidal, but because of what my dad had always stressed I never once considerred using one of his guns to try to kill myself with. I luckily never attempted it... but had I attempted it I would have never used one of my dads guns. Its all about what you teach your children ... in all these cases where kids killed people ... it wasn't the guns faults ... it was either an embalance in the kid or lack or raising by the parents... Everyone is trying to blame guns for our break down of society ... why don't we start blaming the real problem ... the morals and attention so many people don't provide their children with.

 

[Dameon]

North Carolina (Cleveland County) Resident Shoots Intruder

Originally published October 28, 2000 at http://www.nbc6.com



Near Casar, N.C. -- A Cleveland County resident shot a man who broke into his home Friday night.

The incident happened at 124 Houser Dr. near Casar. The suspect entered through the back door of the mobile home.

The homeowner, Tony Barrett, says he ran after the suspect and fired a shot in the air with his gun to scare him.

Barrett could not explain how the suspect had a gunshot wound to the head.

The Cleveland County Sheriff?s Department says Elijah Ray Barrett, 18, (not related to the victim) has been charged with breaking and entering and larceny.

He was treated and released from the hospital.

Authorities say he was just released from prison for breaking and entering charge into the same victim?s home.

-----------------

A Testament to our Revolving door prison system

 

[Russ]

<< however, passing laws that control who has (like no ex-con) might. >>



These laws are already in place, and have been for many years.



<< Gun control and Banning Guns really are two different things altogether. >>



Gun control, as outlined by grabbers like HCI, is the first step to banning. We already have OVER 20,000 laws on the books in this country. By any reasonable measure, gun control is already in place.



<< It is the NRA who wants you to group those two together, and thus confuse the issue. >>



Not so. The NRA does, and always has, supported reasonable measures to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and has spearheaded some of the toughest laws in the country to punish criminals who use a firearm. They also run the best safety training courses in the world.



<< Gun control is about background checks, and 7-day wait periods, and purchasing only through a legal vendor >>



Again, ALL OF THIS is already law.



<< and registering all firearms. >>



The ONLY people who would register are law abiding gun owners. Criminals, which are the problem, would simply ignore it, just as they already ignore every other gun law. This is nothing more then the first step to confiscation. History proves this.

Russ, NCNE

 

[jtshaw]

There are basic rights in this country that everyone has, unless they abuse there rights. The right to have arms is one of those. If you ban guns now it will not get them out of the hands of violent criminals. As for the comment about searching every square inch of property for guns...that is 100% completely rediculous and impossible. That would violate so many rights that people in the USA have that it would take me pages to list them all. There should be laws on the storage of guns and the laws should be strict. No storing them with ammo, and only storing them in locked cases with the guns themselves having a trigger lock on them.

It is sad that kids and other people die in accidents with guns. However, more die in accidents with cars..do we ban them too?

If you think the government can ban guns one day and have them gone the next that is foolish.

 

[Russ]

<< &quot;Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of Americans to feel safe.&quot;
U.S. Senator Diane Feinstein, quoted by AP, 11/18/93 >>



HMM...I wonder if she said that before, or after she got a concealed weapons permit and started packing.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Czar]

I´d like to say something about this.

If you ban guns gun makers will have to reduce production alot, they will have to stop producing many types that are ment for &quot;personal protection&quot;, this means that criminals will have a hard time getting guns when there are not many being produced.

Criminals must get their guns from somewhere, the black market right, the black market gets it from theves, and they get it from those who own guns. To solve a problem you must go to the source and cut the stream from there.

 

[BoberFett]

Czar

Illegal guns come mainly from offshore, not stealing them from Ma n Pa Kettle's bedroom.

 

[fdiskboy]

The funniest thing about Rosie. She thinks the police should have guns because &quot;criminals are still going to have guns even if they're banned.&quot;

Doh. What a dumbass. Talk about too stupid to breathe.

 

[classy]

Dameon just post the links. And you know and I know for your 300+, I could could 3000+. Enough said. Russ keeps screaming but what everyone fails to realize is its not the criminals as you know them to be that are committing crimes with guns. 6 year olds are not criminals. Law abiding citizens for a lack of judgement use guns because they are available to them. I bet that most people that kill someone with a gun really didn't want the person dead. Two guys get to arguing and in a fit of anger one pulls a gun and shoots. I grew up in country where hunting is the thing. The entire family hunts. I come from a military type family. 3 cousins and an Uncle served in Vietnam. I am talking in the trenches. One uncle served in the Korean war. Several of my family members are in the military for a career. So if think I have thing against guns your wrong. But what guns have become is the primary way disputes are settled. And as a result innocent people are dying. If we could some how prevent the liberal access to guns, maybe we can save some lives. Now here is my central belief. If I can't stop the people then I'll try to take away the thing that they are using excessively, the guns. And I believe a person life is more important to than having someone brag about their assalut rifle.

Ulf didn't you post this
&quot;Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. &quot;
That's why I ask the question.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Again I ask: How do you define a gun and a common tool?
A nail gun is considered a tool, yet it can be easily modified (disable the safety device) to shoot projectiles at a very high speed, rapidly, and with the pull of a trigger.

Shall we ban those as well?

To ban all guns is flawed by the definition of a gun. Or the lack there of.

Another question: How can an inanimate object commit a crime, and when it does, what jail do you put it in?

 

[PG]

Classy, you got it wrong. Russ keeps asking a question that you refuse to answer.