This is despicable.

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Although they each suffered a brief problem, then end up making out better in the end as well as the entire society of islands that benefit from newer industries.
[/b]

There you forgot a part. I thought I'd add it.[/quote]

It doesn't work that way in real life. Due to the exchange rate and average salary, the average Chinese person cannot afford American products. We can afford their TV's and radios, but they cannot afford ours. It's mostly a one-way street.

The motivating reason behind all this is the huge difference in standard of living and wage. Until it evens out, it won't be feasible for them to buy our things. And that could take hundreds of years.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SampSon

If word gets out people are trying to start a union at a store, they could easily be fired for other reasons, or no reasons at all seeing as how they are at will employees.

That's what usually happens, yes.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Let's look at it in the small scale. We're the only inhabitants on a small island and we both live good comfortable lives. You're a farmer that makes food and clothes, and I'm a factory worker that makes appliances and cars. We buy each other's things and keep each other in business. The money stays between us in our local economy. We live a good life this way.

Then I hear that someone on another island is selling food for a price that you can't compete with. I, not knowing the long term implications, decide to buy my food from them instead of you. I save money this way and in the short term I made out good. But in the next couple of years, I notice that you're not buying as many appliances or cars from me. I don't know why. You tell me that since I stopped buying food from you, you don't have the money to buy as many of my appliances, and you had to buy some of their appliances instead.

So I'm making less money now, too. With less money to spend, in my naivety I decide that I should buy my clothes from the people on the other island too. I save some money by doing that and now I'm temporarily making out as well as I was before. But you go out of business. I feel sorry for you but I can't see that it's my fault. But now all orders for my products have stopped. You're not buying anything from me because you have no money. I can no longer stay in business, so I go broke too.

What happened in this scenario is that in the beginning all the money in our local economy stayed in our local economy. But in an attempt to save some money I gave my money to another island who sold things for less. Money drained from our local economy and went into someone else's economy. We didn't get that money back. Then in turn you had to make cost cutting measures also, which compounded the problem. It lead to a downward spiral for us. In the big picture, no money was lost because someone else gained it. But WE lost money while someone else gained it.

That is what you call compartive advantage. And it works perfectly fine in world trade.

 

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: SampSon

If word gets out people are trying to start a union at a store, they could easily be fired for other reasons, or no reasons at all seeing as how they are at will employees.

That's what usually happens, yes.

Good. We don't need unions in places like walmart. They serve no purpose.

 

[Ornery]

...You've effectively given up trying to defend manufacturing and production jobs...

Are you still sore that we gave up manufacturing transistor radios and what not, after WWII? Yeah, we abandoned that to Japan, who in turn left it to Singapore and Taiwan. God, I don't know how we ever recovered from that! :roll:

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: iversonyin

That is what you call compartive advantage. And it works perfectly fine in world trade.

Yes, it does work fine in world trade. And it does go against the natural laws of trade to do what I'm saying, which is to artificially decline cheaper products and workers in favor of keeping your countryment employed.

The problem is that 2 of the the world's most populous countries have been isolated and poor for hundreds of years. Now with a world economy, things need to even out.

The problem is that since those 2 countries have almost 10x as many people as we do in the US, it could take hundreds of years for things to balance out, mostly at the USA's expense.

Are you willing to let your country decline so others may rise? Keep in mind that due to the populations involved, yours will decline a lot more than their will rise.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Although they each suffered a brief problem, then end up making out better in the end as well as the entire society of islands that benefit from newer industries.
[/b]

There you forgot a part. I thought I'd add it.

It doesn't work that way in real life. Due to the exchange rate and average salary, the average Chinese person cannot afford American products. We can afford their TV's and radios, but they cannot afford ours. It's mostly a one-way street.

The motivating reason behind all this is the huge difference in standard of living and wage. Until it evens out, it won't be feasible for them to buy our things. And that could take hundreds of years.[/quote]

Even they have even wages per capita against the U.S. They still don't need our exports. Don't forget China is a manufacture and production giant itself. The U.S. trade deficit will never even out. And I believe we are one of the biggest exporter in the world, its just we import more than we export.

The only way to fix this, its to adjust exchange rate....make the dollar weak....that is what they doing now.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Ornery

Where do you work and how long have you been in the workforce?

People seem to be willing to give up all sorts of little things, but they neglect to admit that it all adds up. I'm not worried about transistor radios themselves, but they are now part of a half trillion dollar trade deficit. How many little things can you give up before the economy collapses? What is the straw that breaks the camel's back?

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: iversonyin

That is what you call compartive advantage. And it works perfectly fine in world trade.

Yes, it does work fine in world trade. And it does go against the natural laws of trade to do what I'm saying, which is to artificially decline cheaper products and workers in favor of keeping your countryment employed.

The problem is that 2 of the the world's most populous countries have been isolated and poor for hundreds of years. Now with a world economy, things need to even out.

The problem is that since those 2 countries have almost 10x as many people as we do in the US, it could take hundreds of years for things to balance out, mostly at the USA's expense.

Are you willing to let your country decline so others may rise? Keep in mind that due to the populations involved, yours will decline a lot more than their will rise.

Trade deficit is really not that much of a problem compare to budget deficit and possible collaspe of Social Security. And you can look at this differently, ei: XYZ company manufacutre computers in a country where they can cut cost by saving labor costs. XYZ company gain more revenue. They might bring it back to U.S. and invest in other assets, which include labors(not neccessarily manufacture/production).

As long as you not in the manufacture/p[roduction industry, you are fine in U.S. But if you are, you need to figure out a way to make yourself much more cost efficient compare to other countries workers. Or else, you just going to whine and stay unemployed.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: iversonyin

The only way to fix this, its to adjust exchange rate....make the dollar weak....that is what they doing now.

The problem is that they aren't making the dollar weak on purpose. It's becoming weak because foreign investors are losing faith in the USA's ability to pay off its mounting debt.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: iversonyin

The only way to fix this, its to adjust exchange rate....make the dollar weak....that is what they doing now.

The problem is that they aren't making the dollar weak on purpose. It's becoming weak because foreign investors are losing faith in the USA's ability to pay off its mounting debt.

And they are letting it happens, no? So indirectly, they are making it happens. I found our budget deficit and possiblity of social security collaspe much more scary then increasing trade deficit.

 

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: iversonyin

The only way to fix this, its to adjust exchange rate....make the dollar weak....that is what they doing now.

The problem is that they aren't making the dollar weak on purpose. It's becoming weak because foreign investors are losing faith in the USA's ability to pay off its mounting debt.

Right, and Americans are not about to drop their standard of living in order to walk back into a manufacturing industry just to try and slow down trade deficit.
A worker here wants incredible wages to do the same exact thing someone overseas will do for a fraction of the cost.
I personally do not want to pay a 50% markup for goods just so some joe schmoe blue collar guy can have a good job in manufacturing. Sorry, get some skills buddy, advance yourself, leave that blue collar crap behind.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Trade deficit is really not that much of a problem compare to budget deficit and possible collaspe of Social Security. And you can look at this differently, ei: XYZ company manufacutre computers in a country where they can cut cost by saving labor costs. XYZ company gain more revenue. They might bring it back to U.S. and invest in other assets, which include labors(not neccessarily manufacture/production).

Those are all big problems, yes.

The US is spending more money than it is taking in. We cannot maintain our standard of living. Companies have no loyalty to any country, they only have loyalty to themselves.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SampSon
[ Sorry, get some skills buddy, advance yourself, leave that blue collar crap behind.

You'd be naive if you think that only blue collar workers are susceptible to outsourcing. Not everyone can "advance themself". Going to school does not guarantee you a good job anymore. You're competing with people who also went to school in China/India and are willing to work for 1/20th your desired wage. Oh, and there's 10x as many people there than there are here.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SampSon
[
Right, and Americans are not about to drop their standard of living in order to walk back into a manufacturing industry just to try and slow down trade deficit.

You're failing to see the big picture. I'm not asking them to drop their good job to get back into manufacturing. I'm saying that your standard of living is going to drop no matter what you do, because all areas of the economy will be affected by it. When there is someone like you out there who will do whatever it is that you do, and he'll do it for less, the salary that you command decreases. Even high end jobs like microprocessor design are going overseas.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: iversonyin
I found our budget deficit and possiblity of social security collaspe much more scary then increasing trade deficit.

They are all related. Money needs to come IN to the country if the government wants to spend it. If you're not making as much money because your job was outsourced, you're not going to pay as much taxes. Less tax money = less available for the national budget, which includes social security.

 

You'd be naive if you think that only blue collar workers are susceptible to outsourcing. Not everyone can "advance themself". Going to school does not guarantee you a good job anymore. You're competing with people who also went to school in China/India and are willing to work for 1/20th your desired wage. Oh, and there's 10x as many people there than there are here.

I don't think that at all. What I do think is that Americans want too much money for what they do. Were used to making good money and making more and more of it as time goes on. This is changing as we speak.

You're failing to see the big picture. I'm not asking them to drop their good job to get back into manufacturing. I'm saying that your standard of living is going to drop no matter what you do, because all areas of the economy will be affected by it. When there is someone like you out there who will do whatever it is that you do, and he'll do it for less, the salary that you command decreases. Even high end jobs like microprocessor design are going overseas.

No, I see the big picture very well. I agree that the standard of living is going to drop, that is the point I am trying to make. People expect to make more and more and more as time goes on, which is not the case anymore.

I personally am in a job that cannot be outsourced, only the fees can be reduced.

 

[tyim]

Originally posted by: Baked
Unions is the reason why their members act like pricks.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SampSon

I agree that the standard of living is going to drop, that is the point I am trying to make. People expect to make more and more and more as time goes on, which is not the case anymore.

I personally am in a job that cannot be outsourced, only the fees can be reduced.

So we're pretty much on the same page, except that I'm not willing to accept a lifestyle drop, while other people can accept it.

 

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: SampSon

I agree that the standard of living is going to drop, that is the point I am trying to make. People expect to make more and more and more as time goes on, which is not the case anymore.

I personally am in a job that cannot be outsourced, only the fees can be reduced.

So we're pretty much on the same page, except that I'm not willing to accept a lifestyle drop, while other people can accept it.

What are you going to do to change this lifestyle drop? America cannot manufacture goods at a comparable price and keep up its standard of living.

 

[91TTZ]

Btw, it seems that people on this thread think that I'm a pissed off union blue collar worker who works in a factory. I'm not.

 

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Btw, it seems that people on this thread think that I'm a pissed off union blue collar worker who works in a factory. I'm not.

I don't think it comes off like that at all.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SampSon

What are you going to do to change this lifestyle drop? America cannot manufacture goods at a comparable price and keep up its standard of living.

We need to increase our bottom line. The country needs to obtain money.

I'm one of the few people who supported the Iraq war even though I did not believe any of the reasons that Bush gave. I didn't even vote for Bush, but I do support the conquest of another country to feed our need for money. Oil=money. It's life. It's like a lion eating a gazelle. Someone is going to win, and someone will lose. But sitting there and just "taking it" is not an option.

We live in a dog eat dog world.

It's sad when you think about it, but when you try to moralize it too much you become saddened that our ancestors took over the land we live in. Nothing is given to you in this world, you need to take it. Seize the opportunity.

 

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: SampSon

What are you going to do to change this lifestyle drop? America cannot manufacture goods at a comparable price and keep up its standard of living.

We need to increase our bottom line. The country needs to obtain money.

I'm one of the few people who supported the Iraq war even though I did not believe any of the reasons that Bush gave. I didn't even vote for Bush, but I do support the conquest of another country to feed our need for money. Oil=money. It's life. It's like a lion eating a gazelle. Someone is going to win, and someone will lose. But sitting there and just "taking it" is not an option.

We live in a dog eat dog world.

Were spending WAY more than were making.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Were spending WAY more than were making.

Right now we are. But who knows how long we'll have favorable contracts when everything is settled? After this conflict ends, we could be at peace with Iraq for the next 20 years, you never know. We already have the #1 oil producer on our side, and we're trying to get #2 in order. We've muscled our way into getting influence.