This is despicable.

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Brule


The modern "union" is nothing more than the legal extortion of business and a drain on the bottem line of both businesses and their employees.

Yet another fool who has no idea what he's talking about.

If what you said were true, nobody would want to join a union. The truth is that Wal-Mart is responsible for more outsourcing of American jobs than most companies. Wal-Mart is by far China's single largest trading partner and if it were a country, it would be China's 8th largest trading partner, ahead of Russia and Britain.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Brule


The modern "union" is nothing more than the legal extortion of business and a drain on the bottem line of both businesses and their employees.

Yet another fool who has no idea what he's talking about.

If what you said were true, nobody would want to join a union. The truth is that Wal-Mart is responsible for more outsourcing of American jobs than most companies. Wal-Mart is by far China's single largest trading partner and if it were a country, it would be China's 8th largest trading partner, ahead of Russia and Britain.

Correct.

And I also worked at Wal-Mart and think Unions would HELP a great deal. Unions are useful when the company does not take care if its employees, and in Wal-Marts case a Union WILL happen, it is just a matter of time. Either that or 90% of Wal-Marts will have to close.

 

[VTrider]

Originally posted by: Haps

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
I bet Wal-Mart had caused 3 small businesses to close THIS WEEK.

And rightfully so. If a business can no longer survive on the higher margins it was charging for products then it's time to lower prices, get out of business, or find something else to sell your customers to remain profitable(service for example).

Who wants to bet me that Haps is not a small business owner?

 

[Brule]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Brule


The modern "union" is nothing more than the legal extortion of business and a drain on the bottem line of both businesses and their employees.

Yet another fool who has no idea what he's talking about.

If what you said were true, nobody would want to join a union. The truth is that Wal-Mart is responsible for more outsourcing of American jobs than most companies. Wal-Mart is by far China's single largest trading partner and if it were a country, it would be China's 8th largest trading partner, ahead of Russia and Britain.

Nobody SHOULD want to join a union. How does a union prevent outsourcing, by their thug mentality of demands on an employer or their subsidizing of members whose jobs no longer have a place in the modern day? By blackmailing companies into paying overly high wages (with a cut to the union of course) and not allowing job cuts, the company/industry cannot adjust or sometimes survive.

The entire idea of "buying American" is un-American at its core. Why should millions of families, including those near or below the poverty line, overpay for products that could be produced for half the price in China? Jobs (as well as produced wealth AKA money) are not a finate quantity that must be split up. Wal-Mart deals with China, what's your point? The added jobs in China are worth much more according to the utilitarian viewpoint you're promoting, (power to the people?) so by "buying American" you're actually killing children in China.

The Fool

 

[VTrider]

Originally posted by: Amused
It is shocking that no one sees the real outrage here.

And that outrage is that Walmart has to shut down, rather than have the basic right to simply fire the Union members.

A Union's ONLY leverage should be the threat of walking off the job en-mass and forcing the employer to saddle the cost of training a new crew. Any law that prohibits the firing of Union members or organizers is an absurd violation of an employer's rights.

Let me make one thing clear here for everybody who hasn't figured it out yet. Don't think for one second that Walmart was 'forced' to shut down that store - The people at the top who run Walmart are not 'forced' to do anything, they are the people who have senators and congressmen over for dinner on the weekends - they help shape business laws in this country and world.

Walmart shut that store down - as an EXAMPLE, a warning - a slap in the face just to make a point.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Brule

The entire idea of "buying American" is un-American at its core....... so by "buying American" you're actually killing children in China.

The Fool

Wow, you're much dumber than I thought.

I don't live in China. I have no loyalty to China. I'm American and have loyalty to my country.

 

[VTrider]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
The level of ignorance on this thread is astounding. It's not surprising through, considering that most of the members seem to be 15-22. They just don't have the real world experience.

they do have their place in some areas of work, but unskilled labor (retail, food workers, etc.) should NEVER be unionized nor should any federal/state employees.

This is so wrong it is laughable. Non-skilled labor was the MAIN reason that unions and work laws were made. These people were repeatedly stepped on and forced to work in unsafe working conditions. Picture a sweatshop with the people working in unsafe conditions. These are unskilled laborers. I guess they shouldn't have any unions to demand better working conditions.

Atleast somebody here is making sense.

 

[flamingelephant]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Brule

The entire idea of "buying American" is un-American at its core....... so by "buying American" you're actually killing children in China.

The Fool

Wow, you're much dumber than I thought.

I don't live in China. I have no loyalty to China. I'm American and have loyalty to my country.

Loyalty to who in your country? Stuff made in China is cheaper so people have more money to spend. One country can't control the wages of another, so it will always be that way. There is no way a north american manufacturer can compete with one in china because of the lower wages. I suppose we could subsidize them with taxpayers money but then we are all paying more taxes, and have less money to spend. Stuff made overseas isn't bad, it makes things cheaper here. People who loose their jobs get new ones. Life goes on

 

[flamingelephant]

my last post was off topic, so, on topic.....
I don't like walwart because their stores are so unshoppable. They put crap all in the aisles now and they are very un-navigable. Asside from cheap prices on some stuff, they are not a good shopping destination.
I don't like unions because on 2 separate occasions 2 different unions have made threats towards members of my family. (even though for my current job I am part of a union)

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: flamingelephant

Loyalty to who in your country? Stuff made in China is cheaper so people have more money to spend. One country can't control the wages of another, so it will always be that way. There is no way a north american manufacturer can compete with one in china because of the lower wages. I suppose we could subsidize them with taxpayers money but then we are all paying more taxes, and have less money to spend. Stuff made overseas isn't bad, it makes things cheaper here. People who loose their jobs get new ones. Life goes on

[/quote]

Ok, let's say we all buy things made in China so we have more money to spend. How are you going to make your money? Nobody wants the product you make because they want something cheap that's made in China. What are you going to do for work? Sorry, I don't want to hire you- I'm going to get it done in China instead.

Wait, now you're telling me that you can't make as much money because nobody wants your products? I guess you don't have more money to spend now, do you?

It all comes back to you in the end.

 

[91TTZ]

Let's look at it in the small scale. We're the only inhabitants on a small island and we both live good comfortable lives. You're a farmer that makes food and clothes, and I'm a factory worker that makes appliances and cars. We buy each other's things and keep each other in business. The money stays between us in our local economy. We live a good life this way.

Then I hear that someone on another island is selling food for a price that you can't compete with. I, not knowing the long term implications, decide to buy my food from them instead of you. I save money this way and in the short term I made out good. But in the next couple of years, I notice that you're not buying as many appliances or cars from me. I don't know why. You tell me that since I stopped buying food from you, you don't have the money to buy as many of my appliances, and you had to buy some of their appliances instead.

So I'm making less money now, too. With less money to spend, in my naivety I decide that I should buy my clothes from the people on the other island too. I save some money by doing that and now I'm temporarily making out as well as I was before. But you go out of business. I feel sorry for you but I can't see that it's my fault. But now all orders for my products have stopped. You're not buying anything from me because you have no money. I can no longer stay in business, so I go broke too.

What happened in this scenario is that in the beginning all the money in our local economy stayed in our local economy. But in an attempt to save some money I gave my money to another island who sold things for less. Money drained from our local economy and went into someone else's economy. We didn't get that money back. Then in turn you had to make cost cutting measures also, which compounded the problem. It lead to a downward spiral for us. In the big picture, no money was lost because someone else gained it. But WE lost money while someone else gained it.

 

[Cleaner]

Unions are a response to very bad work conditions and poor treatment of workers. Is this still relevant today? Yes but not in all industries as america doesn't have any more industries. It would be nice if we had a computer programmer's union. Then the fiasco of EA and such wouldn't happen as they've already shown that the government doesn't care about them. Are unions corrupt? Their run by people and everyone is corrupt at some level or another. The hope just like in government officials is that you've chosen the least greasy one. Do Walmart workers need a union? I don't know but if they seem to think so then I'll have to side with them as I don't work for Walmart. I can't make a judgement against them as I'm on the outside and don't know what kind of h-e-l-l they are put through. Flame on.

 

[Ornery]

What are you going to do for work? Sorry, I don't want to hire you- I'm going to get it done in China instead.

Yeah right, you're buying your bathroom remodel from China? Your new roof is being installed by someone from China? Your car is getting a muffler put on in China? Some Chinese fellow is going to do your taxes? Your wife is having her hair cut in China? Who's going to photograph your wedding, and conduct your family's funerals?

GET A GRIP, CLYDE!

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: Ornery
What are you going to do for work? Sorry, I don't want to hire you- I'm going to get it done in China instead.

Yeah right, you're buying your bathroom remodel from China? Your new roof is being installed by someone from China? Your car is getting a muffler put on in China? Some Chinese fellow is going to do your taxes? Your wife is having her hair cut in China? Who's going to photograph your wedding, and conduct your family's funerals?

GET A GRIP, CLYDE!

:thumbsup: The whole outsourcing issue is not only VERY old (it's been in the spotlight for a few years, not that it's anything new), but not as big of a threat to our economy as people make it out to be.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Ornery
What are you going to do for work? Sorry, I don't want to hire you- I'm going to get it done in China instead.

Yeah right, you're buying your bathroom remodel from China? Your new roof is being installed by someone from China? Your car is getting a muffler put on in China? Some Chinese fellow is going to do your taxes? Your wife is having her hair cut in China? Who's going to photograph your wedding, and conduct your family's funerals?

GET A GRIP, CLYDE!

Those are all services jobs. You've effectively given up trying to defend manufacturing and production jobs, and now only hang onto services jobs.

We can't export the work, so we'll import the workers.

The big business answer to that is H1B visas. I'm going to claim that there's a shortage of skilled bathroom remodelers, roofers, muffler mechanics and hair cutters. Even though there's plenty of people in this country willing to do this, I'm going to say there's a severe shortage. We must import people. Now people from China are going to do these jobs, since they're willing to work for less.

I'm going to claim that I'm paying them a fair market rate, but since they were allowed to come over, the "fair market rate" has substantially dropped.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: geno

:thumbsup: The whole outsourcing issue is not only VERY old (it's been in the spotlight for a few years, not that it's anything new), but not as big of a threat to our economy as people make it out to be.

Nah, not a problem at all.

It's not a problem, just like charging things on your credit card isn't a problem for you this week. And when that bill comes next month, just pay that bill with another credit card.

It'll all come back to you in the end. Maybe not today, but rest assured it's going to affect you.

 

Correct.
And I also worked at Wal-Mart and think Unions would HELP a great deal. Unions are useful when the company does not take care if its employees, and in Wal-Marts case a Union WILL happen, it is just a matter of time. Either that or 90% of Wal-Marts will have to close.

That's bs. Walmart doesn't have to accept a union or hire union employees. Walmart can say it only hires non union employees and there isn't much you can do about it.

91TTZ: Yes there are areas of industry that benefit from unions. Low level retail like walmart is not one of them. Also your little scenario a few posts up falls apart today because we live in a global economy. In fantasy land you can keep all the money in the local economy, but since we don't live in fantasy land there isn't much point in trying to lay out such a simplified and limited scenario.

I love how everyone screams "BUY AMEICAN, BUY LOCAL" but have a house full of cheaper imported goods. Until you actaully practice what you preach, just STFU AND LIKE IT!

 

[91TTZ]

And for those of you that didn't care enough to read that short article to the end:

"The trade balance is the difference between the nation's imports over exports.

The trade deficit has been driving the dollar downward for months as foreign investors are concerned about the country's ability to finance the debt. The greenback fell sharply shortly after the release of Wednesday's news."

Unfortunately the average American doesn't think long-term. They can't see the correlation between their actions today, and the things that happen to them next week. That's why most people are in debt. When you spend more than you make, you're going to fall farther behind.

When it comes to a big country like the US, it's not going to be the next month when the bill collector calls, it takes decades. But it WILL come back to you in the end, and you can take that to the bank.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SampSon
[
That's bs. Walmart doesn't have to accept a union or hire union employees. Walmart can say it only hires non union employees and there isn't much you can do about it.

Where do you get your facts from? This is false. It is illegal for a company to refuse the right of its workers to unionize. Wal-Mart CANNOT say that it hires only non-union employees.

 

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: SampSon
[
That's bs. Walmart doesn't have to accept a union or hire union employees. Walmart can say it only hires non union employees and there isn't much you can do about it.

Where do you get your facts from? This is false. It is illegal for a company to refuse the right of its workers to unionize. Wal-Mart CANNOT say that it hires only non-union employees.

It only hires non union or it closes up shop.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Let's look at it in the small scale. We're the only inhabitants on a small island and we both live good comfortable lives. You're a farmer that makes food and clothes, and I'm a factory worker that makes appliances and cars. We buy each other's things and keep each other in business. The money stays between us in our local economy. We live a good life this way.

Then I hear that someone on another island is selling food for a price that you can't compete with. I, not knowing the long term implications, decide to buy my food from them instead of you. I save money this way and in the short term I made out good. But in the next couple of years, I notice that you're not buying as many appliances or cars from me. I don't know why. You tell me that since I stopped buying food from you, you don't have the money to buy as many of my appliances, and you had to buy some of their appliances instead.

So I'm making less money now, too. With less money to spend, in my naivety I decide that I should buy my clothes from the people on the other island too. I save some money by doing that and now I'm temporarily making out as well as I was before. But you go out of business. I feel sorry for you but I can't see that it's my fault. But now all orders for my products have stopped. You're not buying anything from me because you have no money. I can no longer stay in business, so I go broke too.

Then the two unemployed island residents each started a new business, which was in demand. The residents of the other island now see this new good and service, and begins to buy it. Island 1 now has a strong economy and provides something the other island did not have. Island 2 now has something new that wasn't available to them before, which then benefits them. Both islands have become semi-dependent on the economies of the other, and this system is now not only stable, but helps keep each island in check.

Although they each suffered a brief problem, then end up making out better in the end as well as the entire society of islands that benefit from newer industries.

There you forgot a part. I thought I'd add it.

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: spidey07
good for them.

unions = teh devil

Agreed

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: SampSon
[
It only hires non union or it closes up shop.

Sounds like an easy way to put Wal-Mart out of business. Just pick a store you want to close and start a union there.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
The level of ignorance on this thread is astounding. It's not surprising through, considering that most of the members seem to be 15-22. They just don't have the real world experience.

they do have their place in some areas of work, but unskilled labor (retail, food workers, etc.) should NEVER be unionized nor should any federal/state employees.

This is so wrong it is laughable. Non-skilled labor was the MAIN reason that unions and work laws were made. These people were repeatedly stepped on and forced to work in unsafe working conditions. Picture a sweatshop with the people working in unsafe conditions. These are unskilled laborers. I guess they shouldn't have any unions to demand better working conditions.

And I'm sure Walmart force their workers to work in unsafe working coniditon. And who are you to speak about the sweatshop condition. As terrible as sweatshops were, they provided immigrants with income. Once the unions and govt close the swetashops down, where are these immigrants going to get their jobs?

Are you willing to hire unskilled non-english speaking immigrants to work at your place?

I don't think so.

 

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: SampSon
[
It only hires non union or it closes up shop.

Sounds like an easy way to put Wal-Mart out of business. Just pick a store you want to close and start a union there.

If word gets out people are trying to start a union at a store, they could easily be fired for other reasons, or no reasons at all seeing as how they are at will employees.