this is all Murdoch's fault.

[DigDog]

A wise scot by the name of Andrew Fletcher of Saltoun once - in the late 1600s - said "Let a man write the songs of a nation, and he shall not care whom writes the laws".

American today is self-destructing because it is still a nation built on ideology, and not practicality. Too much freedom. Too much freedom of guns, too much freedom of speech. And here is a practical example: in my barbaric shithole country of Berlusconiland, in order to write for a published news outlet, you need to be a registered member of the Order Of Journalists; you have an ethical code to legally abide to, and if you breach it, you will be suspended or expunged, and will not be allowed to work as a journalist anymore. THE GOVERNMENT, that tyrannical, oppressive regime, determines what constitutes journalism, and since the government is non-partisan (given that we got half a dozen political parties) you're pretty much guaranteed that anything that vaguely resembles journalism, will be categorized as journalism.

Fox News has successfully argued in court that they are NOT a journalistic outlet but rather an "entertainment company".

.. you see, people are stupid. They should not directly be blamed for being stupid because
1. we all are stupid - in one way or another. Maybe you are a genius but in great numbers, we're all a bit dumb.
2. What have we smart people done to make stupid people not stupid. (hint: nothing)

I saw the videos of the .. kids .. who got maced and who candidly gave their name and admitted on video that they were storming the capitol because "it's a revolution, man".
I remember the guy going crazy about G5 and vaccines.

You see, i hold that these people are genuinely good people who have been lied to so much that they think what they are doing is nothing short of heroic. They are PATRIOTS who think they are attacking a criminal baby-rapist who stole the election with the help of China. They truly believe they are the good guys.

Of course you get a whole bunch of neo-nazis that are beyond saving, but you should still question yourself: "how can the nation that was instrumental in defeating the actual nazi war machine, create people who fly nazi flags?"

HOW did this happen.


The answer is given to you by Fletcher: "let me write the songs of the nation".

Science is hard. Entertainment is easy. People know more about the Marvel multiverse than they do about biology because human nature wants that the path of least resistance is the most convenient one. Fox News is easy, CNN is hard.

Megachurches, "entertainment media", and a extremely loose permissiveness in journalism has lead to this. You cannot treat people like mushrooms and then expect them to behave like great philosophers. And in my view, the greatest force of evil today in America is Rupert Murdoch, who directly permits people like Tomi Lahren and Tucker Carlson to be represented as thrustworthy, when in any other nation they would be barred from journalism.

IT'S THE GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY that its citizens be correctly educated. It's not mind control, it's a biological necessity if you want to avoid anarchy.

 

[SMOGZINN]

You see, i hold that these people are genuinely good people who have been lied to so much that they think what they are doing is nothing short of heroic. They are PATRIOTS who think they are attacking a criminal baby-rapist who stole the election with the help of China. They truly believe they are the good guys.

Every villain is the hero in his own story. We judge people not on what they intended, or thought they were doing, but on what they did.

"how can the nation that was instrumental in defeating the actual nazi war machine, create people who fly nazi flags?"

Create? They have always been here. We were partially founded by people that were so religiously extreme that they were kicked off an entire continent.
We had the Amerika-Deutscher Volksbund that literally set up an American chapter of the Hitler Youth in 1939. They petitioned the US to join on the side of the Nazi's when Germany invaded Poland.

IT'S THE GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY that its citizens be correctly educated. It's not mind control, it's a biological necessity if you want to avoid anarchy.

I mostly agree. But it is easy to complain. Solutions are hard. What is your solution? How do we defeat the monster without becoming one in the process?

 

[nakedfrog]

So what do we do about news sources based outside the US? Follow the China route and implement a Great Firewall?
And then when another fascist gets elected to office... ?

 

[DigDog]

... defeat the monster without becoming one in the process?

it can't be done. You must become the monster, to defeat the monster. Time to grow up. Time to pass some serious laws, and to enforce them.

So what do we do about news sources based outside the US? Follow the China route and implement a Great Firewall?
And then when another fascist gets elected to office... ?

.. they tend to be fairly impartial. And the idea is that both 1. you dont elect a fascist, and 2. even if you do, they do not have as much individual legislative freedom.

You, the US, obviously have a big problem when half your government supports the ideology of The Lost Cause and still hates the Yankee states for the civil war.
Deutscheland .. you remember them right? You can't fly the nazi flag. You can't do a nazi salute. 1 Nazi salute = 1 jail.
Maybe going with 1 dukes of hazard flag = 1 jail would be a good start.Start every episode of Fox News with a disclaimer "Fox News is not a news company, the information contained in this program is not factual and was created exclusively for entertainment purposes" and FORCE every TV in america to have 1 government-controlled factual news show if they want to operate.



Fletcher's point is that EVERYTHING is propaganda. If you're a good guy, your propaganda will be a tool for good. If you're an evil guy, and you are in a position to make propaganda, then the good guys have failed.

 

[Xcobra]

I mostly agree. But it is easy to complain. Solutions are hard. What is your solution? How do we defeat the monster without becoming one in the process?

The OP alluded to one of the important steps: Stop legitimizing 'entertainment networks' which are taken as news outlets by many. In other words, information and facts should be separated from what's fiction/false (or at least focus on that as much as possible). The year 2020 has been one of the worst years for misinformation and Fox News and the like were the megaphones for these.

I'm not saying misinformation has never existed. I remember back in the early 2000s where I used to read/watch about conspiracy theories online but most people took as that, theories based on circumstancial information and we used to not take them so seriously or question them. But now, this type of information has been given a platform and since we know people are stupid (as the OP said), they will swallow it easily.

Once you control false information, then you can get somewhere. Like make education better for a much more informed population. These aren't difficult steps.

 

[Thump553]

It was interesting flipping through the channels last night. The regular networks dropped their regular entertainment, were running coverage of the Trump riot most of the night, especially ABC. MSNBC, CNN, PBS, etc all ran continuous coverage-either of the "debate" to accept the electoral college results or of the Capitol invasion by Trump's shock troops. About what you expect.

FauxNews on the other hand, originally prominently features so-called experts explaining why the crazy conspiracy claims were true. Later Faux shifted gears somewhat, blaming the invasion on the failure of Capitol police to stop it.

Nothing new here. I strongly suspect that in 48 hours all the talk of 25th amendment proceeds, etc. will be yesterday's news. The USA will have to depend on the GOP's well wishes and prayers to survive the remaining two weeks of Trump's reign without more-and probably permanent-damage.

I do think though, that among the general public (excluding the deplorables) Trump's spell over many of his former supporters has finally broken.

 

[SMOGZINN]

The OP alluded to one of the important steps: Stop legitimizing 'entertainment networks' which are taken as news outlets by many. In other words, information and facts should be separated from what's fiction/false (or at least focus on that as much as possible). The year 2020 has been one of the worst years for misinformation and Fox News and the like were the megaphones for these.

I'm not saying misinformation has never existed. I remember back in the early 2000s where I used to read/watch about conspiracy theories online but most people took as that, theories based on circumstancial information and we used to not take them so seriously or question them. But now, this type of information has been given a platform and since we know people are stupid (as the OP said), they will swallow it easily.

Once you control false information, then you can get somewhere. Like make edication better for a much more informed population. These aren't difficult steps.

I understood what he was saying. But that is really just a complaint. I'm asking HOW do we control misinformation? Who do we select to be the 'information police'? How do we decide when a group has gone too far?
Overall I'm all for it. I have thought for a long time that a lot of our problems came when we gave up the fairness doctrine, but in truth even that wouldn't save us anymore because Fox News is not regulated by the FCC.
How do we apply something like the Fairness Doctrine to Facebook or Twitter?

It is always easy to say 'this is the problem' what is hard is finding a solution.

 

[cytg111]

So what do we do about news sources based outside the US? Follow the China route and implement a Great Firewall?
And then when another fascist gets elected to office... ?

No solid idea but the concept of Fox is not sustainable in what is supposed to be a democracy. If you can brainwash half the population with flat earth shit you neeeeed to act.. do something...

 

[Xcobra]

I understood what he was saying. But that is really just a complaint. I'm asking HOW do we control misinformation? Who do we select to be the 'information police'? How do we decide when a group has gone too far?
Overall I'm all for it. I have thought for a long time that a lot of our problems came when we gave up the fairness doctrine, but in truth even that wouldn't save us anymore because Fox News is not regulated by the FCC.
How do we apply something like the Fairness Doctrine to Facebook or Twitter?

It is always easy to say 'this is the problem' what is hard is finding a solution.

Like I said, stop giving false information a platform. On TV it should be relatively easy. Online, much more difficult but I think it would require the likes of Facebook and Twitter to start filtering consequential, false information (what's consequential? Surely, we can figure that out). As much as I am for Section 230, I think it's time tech companies start showing some responsibility. In the end, we're all one community and we depend on each other. So if Twitter decides to host blatantly false information, it does everyone a disservice.

Worried about the FCC regulating Fox News, then make new regulations. The point here isn't to regulate information, it's to negate false information. It will take resources but they're there.

As for overseas, Fox News type stuff doesn't exist in Europe as they probably have laws for this. But no idea how you'd regulate international news networks. At least online as that's where everything comes together.

But I think the curbing of false information is a small but a really important step. The biggest is definitely better education. Teach your people to think critically and the above steps require less work.

 

[desy]

I think the openness and instantaneous of the communication media creates the illusion.
B4 your message couldn't be routed everywhere instantly without degrees of fact checking and amplified by the ignorant.
Now garbage is legitimized by replication and a huge lack of critical thinking.
You can find a counter to any slogan and neither is true. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush or nothing ventured nothing gained?
People will latch on to whichever legitimizes their world view instead of doing the mental effort required

 

[IronWing]

Murdoch only has a presence in the US because American politicians wanted him to have one. He was granted expedited US citizenship specifically so that he could bring his brand of fascism to the US. Without citizenship, he couldn't own an American network. Murdoch serves the billionaire class quite well.

 

[theeedude]

Murdoch, Koch, SCOTUS, the whole right wing. They are all complicit. You cannot be a Republican now without being complicit. Decent people have left that party.

 

[hal2kilo]

No solid idea but the concept of Fox is not sustainable in what is supposed to be a democracy. If you can brainwash half the population with flat earth shit you neeeeed to act.. do something...

Real leaders, instead of using Fox as a crutch should be telling their constituents that they are being lied to. But, where would the Republican party be today?

 

[DigDog]

let's keep it simple.

You're a kid born to trailer-park republicans who dropped out of highschool. You spend most of your free time shooting squirrels, casually watch Fox News when you go for a beer at your friends' house.
Your parents have been watching fox news for 20 years straight. Your friends watch fox and a most listen to Limbaugh.
A few of your friends have discovered One America and such, and they think they are investigative geniuses because of this. One America is gving you ANSWERS. They say things like:
"Undeniably evidence discovered by EXPERTS that Biden rapes babies"
"Government officials CONFIRM that the democrats have falsified the electoral results"
"Famous and important public figures in government offices say that conviction of Clinton is imminent"

..and because you're just a stoner kid, you don't care. You turn on the nintendo and play mario kart.
But it stays with you. It's just tv news, but you have no reason right now to think that anything that you saw is anything but a boring news show that only grownups watch.

And your friends watch it. And your parents watch it. And your friend's families watch it.
And the only people who don't watch it are that weird gross gay couple down the block that everyone finds disgusting.
The radio says the same things. The church says the same things. The people at work, the cornershop guy.

Eventually your grow up and, you know, things start to not always go your way. Your life isn't great, and maybe you start thinking that all those answers that the radio gives you are something you should listen to, figure out what you can do to make things better. And one of your friends, he's really been listening good all these years, so he sits you down and he tells you all about the truth ..



if you are this person, you are fucked. There is no way for you to figure out that everything in the scenario above is fabricated, as fake as they are telling you the other media is. But you see that other media only occasionally. Everything in your echo chamber, everyone you rely on every day, everyone you have built a normal, human sense of camaradierie with, is telling you "this is the truth, that is a lie".
You have NO CHANCE to escape. If you are subject to such a monumental and totally deliberate campaign of misinformation by a massive private multimedia conglomerate, by local institutions, by the very social infrastructure that your life depends on daily, and you have no exposure to any genuine information, you are totally fucked. It's the equivalent of child grooming. Of radicalization. These people were never given a choice.

The ones today are beyond saving. But think of the next generation.



Ban fox media. Ban false reporting from news outlets. Prevent any non-accredited media company to sell "news".

 

[sandorski]

He's an Aussie. What else would you expect from a people who live their lives upside down....

 

[shortylickens]

Reagan was the guy who shit all over public education. Allegedly he had an AWESOME economy and instead of investing in brains he invested in weapons.
He then proceeded to give away half those weapons to our enemies.

We have a nation filled with people who cant think critically and its making all the normal problems much worse.

 

[Heartbreaker]

As I said in another post when someone was complaining about divisive forces (supposedly people who use too broad of brush to paint Republicans as bad), blame Newt Gingrich first, he really is the one that came up with a strategy to poison and divide America. Too implant distrust of government.

He succeed and he is absolutely gleeful about the damage it did, because it boosted Republicans in the polls and gave them victories they wouldn't have had otherwise. He's another sociopath, that doesn't care how much damage he does to the country as long he scores more points while the country is burning.

Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh in the earliest years.

Then the monster propaganda machine: Fox (all of it, but especially Hannity)

Today: we still have the original poisoners, but added to them you have the King of depraved liars: Trump(who met with Gingrich when planning his first run at President), plus OAN, Newsmax and assorted Toxic social media outlets, and endless Republican sycophants who still follow the play book.

But if you don't know how Gingrich ruined everything read this:

The Man Who Broke Politics

Newt Gingrich turned partisan battles into bloodsport, wrecked Congress, and paved the way for Trump’s rise. Now he’s reveling in his achievements.

www.theatlantic.com

Gingrich is at the core of why we have crazy conspiracy theories distrusting Government, why politics is so hyper-partisan, that it is hard to make government work at all.

Gingrich has done more to destroy America, than any other individual, including even Trump. They're both sociopaths, but Trumps an absolute buffoon in comparison, that never could have masterminded the fracture in the country that he took advantage of.

 

[DigDog]

But if you don't know how Gingrich ruined everything read this:

The Man Who Broke Politics

Newt Gingrich turned partisan battles into bloodsport, wrecked Congress, and paved the way for Trump’s rise. Now he’s reveling in his achievements.

www.theatlantic.com

thank you.