This is a popular quote people like to throw around...but find me where it is from.

[ManBearPig]

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious.

But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.

But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.

For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men.

He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist.

A murderer is less to be feared."


-- Marcus Tullius Cicero 42 B.C.

First, it must be in one of the Catilinarian Orations. Second, there is no way it was delivered in 42 because he died in 43; it might have been published then or something, I dunno...but that's besides the point.

Ive been trying to find out where the hell this is from, but i cant. i've looked through translations of the orations but i cant find it...so...anyone know which one and what part it is from?

thanks!

 

[Zenmervolt]

I have seen it cited as a speech to the Senate in 50 BC. The citation for that was listed as follows:

Cicero's speech to the Roman Senate, as recorded by Sallust, quoted in Taylor Caldwell, A Pillar of Iron: A Novel About Cicero and the Rome He Tried to Save (New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1965), p.556.

ZV

 

[ManBearPig]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I have seen it cited as a speech to the Senate in 50 BC. The citation for that was listed as follows:

Cicero's speech to the Roman Senate, as recorded by Sallust, quoted in Taylor Caldwell, A Pillar of Iron: A Novel About Cicero and the Rome He Tried to Save (New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1965), p.556.

ZV

Hm...i cant seem to find it based on that info, but thanks a lot...i'll try to figure it out.

 

[ManBearPig]

bump

 

[SirStev0]

I can't give you much but I always heard it attributed to Cicero. A pretty cool quote too.

My favorite of his is in my sig and I think sums up ATOT and life in general pretty well.

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: SirStev0
I can't give you much but I always heard it attributed to Cicero. A pretty cool quote too.

My favorite of his is in my sig and I think sums up ATOT and life in general pretty well.

Very cool sig. :thumbsup:

Now I know where certain ATers get their "debate" skills. :evil:

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: SirStev0
I can't give you much but I always heard it attributed to Cicero. A pretty cool quote too.

My favorite of his is in my sig and I think sums up ATOT and life in general pretty well.

That's a retarded idea and you're completely wrong, wacko:|

 

[ManBearPig]

Er, no one? I didnt think id actually get an answer but figured it was worth a try. Thanks for trying to help though!

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: SirStev0
I can't give you much but I always heard it attributed to Cicero. A pretty cool quote too.

My favorite of his is in my sig and I think sums up ATOT and life in general pretty well.

Very cool sig. :thumbsup:

Now I know where certain ATers get their "debate" skills. :evil:

The hell we do!








Jackass.

 

[Riki]

The quote is from a paper written by MILLARD F. CALDWELL, Justice of the Supreme Court of Tallahassee, Florida, who paraphrases Cicero's second oration against Catiline.

The paper entitled "Cicero's Prognosis", was presented at the 22nd Annual Meeting of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc., which was held on October 7-9, 1965, at Columbus, Ohio

Here is the link to the paper:

http://www.aapsonline.org/brochures/cicero.htm


This is about 10 paragraphs into the paper.

"As the years went by Cicero continued his struggle, he became Consul and, for a time, stopped waste and thievery. But the people again grew careless, weary of well doing, and the avaricious and the corrupt politicians moved in and sought to banish Cicero. Once again he appeared before the Senate, but this time to plead his own cause. He said "The Senate, in truth, has no right to censure me for anything, for I did but my duty and exposed traitors and treason against the State. If that is a crime, then I am indeed a criminal."

Crassus, Caesar and Pompey were present. He turned and looked at them, but their faces were shut against him. His smile was sad as he said to them, "You have succeeded against me. Be it as you will. I will depart * * *." He then told the Senate: "For this day's work, lords, you have encouraged treason and opened the prison doors to free the traitors. A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the carrier of the plague. You have unbarred the gates of Rome to him."

Does that sound like 1965 and the subversives in high places who have been exposed and those who are not yet exposed?

Cicero was exiled from Rome but not from his conscience. He continued to plead the cause of honest government. But the people he pleaded for were not concerned. His friends, the lawyers, the doctors, and the businessmen told him: "We do not meddle in politics. Rome is prosperous and at peace. We have our villas in Caprae, our racing vessels, our houses, our servants, our pretty mistresses, and our comfort and treasures. We implore you, Cicero, do not disturb us with your lamentations of disaster. Rome is on the march to the mighty society, for all Romans."

 

[allisolm]

With any luck, ManBearPig is not still looking for answers after 8 years.