When you post something thoughtful and intelligent (which would include credible links to back up your BS), I will return the favor.
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 27,727
- 16
- 81
Btw, fyi, after recounts and recounts after the election, Bush won Florida, the article was posted in many newspaper.
But it never received any attention.
Pres. Bush can't prove there are mass destruction weapons in Iraq (that's because there are probably none)
Ok, First. Before weapons inspectors entered Iraq, Saddam had stated that he had a certain number amount of WMD. Upon entering Iraq and having a chance to investigate further, UN weapon inspectors discovered that Saddam has vastly understated the number of WMD that Iraq possessed. Saddam amended his official number of WMD 4 in 14 months. Then he threw out the weapons inspectors. I can?t believe that some people are so naïve to believe that Saddam might have dumped all his WMD after the UN weapons inspectors left. If anything its worse.
Ok, First. Before weapons inspectors entered Iraq, Saddam had stated that he had a certain number amount of WMD. Upon entering Iraq and having a chance to investigate further, UN weapon inspectors discovered that Saddam has vastly understated the number of WMD that Iraq possessed. Saddam amended his official number of WMD 4 in 14 months. Then he threw out the weapons inspectors. I can?t believe that some people are so naïve to believe that Saddam might have dumped all his WMD after the UN weapons inspectors left. If anything its worse.
Fear is a powerful motivator. Israeli is our ally and I understand your fears concerning Iraq. I remember the scuds they launched at you and Saudi Arabia during the GW, a last act of desparation to expand the war.
To my knowledge every country on earth has the right to defend itself. To that end it creates a military machine. In modern times that appears to mean a country must seek the most powerful weapons available. If Iraq intends to dominate the middle east and attempts to do so, then a crime is committed and he will be stopped.
Other nations in the "axis of evil" possess nuclear weapons and none appear have to imperialist designs or are outright threatening their neighbors.
In 1991, the Iraqi regime categorically agreed to destroy and stop developing all weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles, and to prove to the world it has done so by complying with rigorous inspections. Iraq has broken every aspect of this fundamental pledge.
From 1991 to 1995, the Iraqi regime said it had no biological weapons. After several senior officials in its weapons program defected and exposed this lie, the regime admitted to producing tens of thousands of liters of anthrax and other deadly biological agents for use with Scud warheads, aerial bombs, and aircraft spray tanks. U.N. inspectors believe Iraq has produced two to four times the amount of biological agents it declared, and has failed to account for more than three metric tons of material that could be used to produce biological weapons. Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.
United Nations inspections also reveal that Iraq likely maintains stockpiles of VX, mustard, and other chemical agents, and that the regime is rebuilding and expanding facilities capable of producing chemical weapons.
And in 1995 ? after four years of deception ? Iraq finally admitted it had a crash nuclear weapons program prior to the Gulf War. We know now, were it not for that war, the regime in Iraq would likely have possessed a nuclear weapon no later than 1993.
Again I will tell you as I have others.................produce irrefutable facts to prove this as can be done to prove Bush won Florida per 5 of 6 recounts done post election. These facts can be obtained from solid, reputable sites such as CNN, USA Today, BBC, Rueters, etc. so produce documents from the same saying Gore won and we'll talk!
That's right.......and your point is????? It has been proven time and time again that the two bombs dropped on Japan caused less death and destruction than would have been lost by a full invasion of the Japanese mainland. Hell, even the Japanese government has agreed with this siting that the people of Japan at the time would have fought to the last man, woman, or child to stave off an invasion rather than admitt defeat!
As for the rest of your drivel, I AM a US citizen and I have fought for my country including time in Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabi, and Israel so I think I have a bit better grasp of what things are really like there and here than someone whom it seems has never left Brazil but likes to talk trash and take shots of our country because it is the "in" thing to do right now! How about we talk about some of the trash and filth Brazil has produced and the problems it has such as drugs and human rights violations??????
- Human Rights Abuse and Criminality in Rio de Janeiro
The homicide rate in Rio de Janeiro tripled in the last 15 years and public concern grew apace. The press, prominent civic leaders, and politicians focused particularly on violence related to criminal gangs and drug trafficking. Unfortu-nately, law enforcement efforts to control crime relied on flagrant and numerous human rights abuses. This report documents instances of police brutality, including two massacres in which 27 residents of one of Rio's hillside slums were killed. We also document the human rights violations that accompanied the largest assault to date on Rio's drug gangs, Operation Rio, which included torture, arbitrary detentions and warrantless searches and at least one unnecessary use of lethal force.
- RIO DE JANEIRO -- There is a deadly new drug problem in Latin America's largest country: cocaine consumption.
Brazil, a sprawling country of 170 million, once was mainly a transit point for cocaine smuggled from Colombia, Bolivia and Peru and bound for the United States and Europe. But today, Brazil has become one of the world's largest markets for illicit drugs, particularly cocaine.
The sharp increase in Brazilian consumption has changed an important dynamic in the drug war: a belief in Latin America that U.S. demand is in decline has fueled the vast illegal drug industry in countries where coca leaves are grown and transformed into cocaine and from which the drugs are smuggled. Recent surveys conducted by governments and anti-drug groups in a number of other Latin American countries -- Peru, Bolivia, Mexico and Colombia -- indicate a rise in illicit drug use, especially cocaine.
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 27,727
- 16
- 81
You miss my point. I was talking about the US, not Israel. Do you think the US would've gone up against Iraq if Israel hadn't taken out his nuclear facilities? He has shown in the past that he doesn't mind using WMD's. Once, he develops nukes, who is gonna go up against him when he decides that the middle east belongs to him?
It's too late then. He already got the nukes. Who's stopping him?
Because although they may be evil, they aren't madmen.
EDIT: BTW, I am a US citizen. Born and bred. I just lived there for a number of years.
I'd say: if your source of information is from news sources, this again precludes you from knowing anything.
There are few people in this country who know the truth of what really happens with our government, and none of us are one of them. As I said, the ones that do know, certainly don't talk about it.
If you get your "facts" from news sources, you're assimilating the work of talented spin doctors, and propagandists.
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 27,727
- 16
- 81
So
Lifer
- Jul 2, 2001
- 25,923
- 17
- 81
...Israel...has...Oil? Since when? (I wouldn't be surprised to find some, but israel isn't a major exporter)
I stopped reading when I saw that.
I can understand other arguments against US support of Israel, (none of which I agree with, BTW) but this one seems completely random.
Also, Sharon's "Nazi" government? NAZI?
I have the commie-nazi's in my sights - MacBaine from the Simpsons.
ThePresence, I refuse to let fear motivate my decisions. Fear leads to irrational action and any number of people will gladly take advantage of that.
Does Hussien believe the middle east belongs to him? You're missing my point: until a crime is commited, there isn't one.
On the matter of Saddum's use of WMD can you link me to sources proving that? I'm not trying to defend him it's just that recently the news is referring to "alledged use of gas on the Kurdish population" as if there was some doubt...? Previously I took it as fact he did.
Does Hussien believe the middle east belongs to him? You're missing my point: until a crime is commited, there isn't one.
On the matter of Saddum's use of WMD can you link me to sources proving that? I'm not trying to defend him it's just that recently the news is referring to "alledged use of gas on the Kurdish population" as if there was some doubt...? Previously I took it as fact he did.
Israel is a Nazi state? That doesn't sound right at all.
And didn't a bunch of german REAL NAZI's run to Brazil to hide from war crime tribunals and retribution after world war II ?
You need to be flamed in to the next mellinium, but I'm in a good mood and not really feeling mean spirited. Someone else can do the honors. I feel pity for ignorant people like you.
And didn't a bunch of german REAL NAZI's run to Brazil to hide from war crime tribunals and retribution after world war II ?
You need to be flamed in to the next mellinium, but I'm in a good mood and not really feeling mean spirited. Someone else can do the honors. I feel pity for ignorant people like you.
definition of weapon : An instrument of attack or defense in combat, as a gun, missile, or sword.
An instrument of attack i'd consider a boeing 747 an instrument of attack and it was used on civilians and caused mass destruction therefore boeing 747 = weapon of mass destruction and dont b*tch about the fact it was a group that used the weapon and not a country big deal they were pretty much running Afghanistan in the first place and OBL is a hero in all of there eyes
as for iraq Saddam has been denying our inspections and we have expected him of having weapons of mass destruction for years no one ever complained before now that we are pushing harder big deal you shoulda said something back then.
and btw ill cook the marshmallow's if you think america is being greedy you can sit on it and rotate because your country wants the oil just as bad.
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 27,727
- 16
- 81
Once a crime is comitted, it may (probably) be too late. (Truth is, crimes WERE committed. He broke every one of his agreements with the UN.)
I too, never knew that this was in question.
Originally posted by: So
...Israel...has...Oil? Since when? (I wouldn't be surprised to find some, but israel isn't a major exporter)
I stopped reading when I saw that.
I can understand other arguments against US support of Israel, (none of which I agree with, BTW) but this one seems completely random.
Also, Sharon's "Nazi" government? NAZI?
I have the commie-nazi's in my sights - MacBaine from the Simpsons.
Yeah, NAZI. He is slaughtering the Palestinisans, destroying their houses, their infrastructures. They cant even leave their houses to buy food sometimes. Remember that they lived in the area in the first place, before Israel was even created. Maybe the jewish have some claim in the area (at least they say they have), but so do the Palestinians. Did we even had terrorism (not counting cases like IRA and ETA) before Israel was created? I don't remember.
And where did I say Israel had oil? Just that US thinks it is best to have a strong ally in the area.
I'm sorry I ever started the post. Maybe I'm not completely right about the whole subject, I think few people realize the big picture. I just don't think the US wants to "dethrone" Saddam (spending billions of dollars and lives in the process), just because "it's the right thing to do". If so, the US should also use their immense power and influence to help the African countries, like letting them manufacture drugs for Ainds and other disesases withiut chargng billions in royalties, etc.
What if Saddam is left alone? Do you guys really think he would nuke half the globe? Now what would that accomplish? He didn't do anything since 1991, so I really doubt he would do such a thing.
There, I'm done. Writing long texts to argue makes my fingers sore.
I won't reply anymore. If any of you ever come to Brazil, let me know and we can discuss this over beer. The US has had so many chances to remove Saddam that I'm very surprised that they've taken this particular occasion to press their case so hard.
I really don't know the reason why - it could be the primaries, but then the news is that the US economy is on a slight recovery. It makes no sense. There is no real new evidence - in fact, the evidence points to Iraq's nuclear and chemical capability is probably less than that before/during the Gulf war, although the ability to acquire technology from Russia may have increased in possibility.
There is the question over whether removing Saddam is the best thing to do in that region - he is a fairly evil dictator, as far as evil dictators go, but his actions are no worse than those perpetrated , either directly or indirectly with their full support by the American secret services - and the Israeli secret service for that matter - over the last 40 years or so. As for whether he is an external threat in the region as opposed to an internal threat (which is undoubted, given his attacks on the Kurds), he has shown considerable intelligence and guile, and such a person is not going to, for example, nuke Israel - because he knows that the US would retaliate in kind.
As for terrorism, Libya has probably sponsored more terrorism than Iraq ever has - but I don't see anyone marching in there for a 'regime change' - just a half-hearted attempt to bomb a few tents.
Removing him by a war could create an even worse situation for the general Iraqi populace, and continued sanctions doesn't make sense for the country either. What to do?
I really don't know the reason why - it could be the primaries, but then the news is that the US economy is on a slight recovery. It makes no sense. There is no real new evidence - in fact, the evidence points to Iraq's nuclear and chemical capability is probably less than that before/during the Gulf war, although the ability to acquire technology from Russia may have increased in possibility.
There is the question over whether removing Saddam is the best thing to do in that region - he is a fairly evil dictator, as far as evil dictators go, but his actions are no worse than those perpetrated , either directly or indirectly with their full support by the American secret services - and the Israeli secret service for that matter - over the last 40 years or so. As for whether he is an external threat in the region as opposed to an internal threat (which is undoubted, given his attacks on the Kurds), he has shown considerable intelligence and guile, and such a person is not going to, for example, nuke Israel - because he knows that the US would retaliate in kind.
As for terrorism, Libya has probably sponsored more terrorism than Iraq ever has - but I don't see anyone marching in there for a 'regime change' - just a half-hearted attempt to bomb a few tents.
Removing him by a war could create an even worse situation for the general Iraqi populace, and continued sanctions doesn't make sense for the country either. What to do?
Ok, just one more post by me:
Suppose the UN wanted to send inspectors to Area51, or any other US military installation. Do you think that would be allowed? Of course not. Would that make the US a dangerous nation to the free world?
The Nobel Prize in Economy, Joseph Stiglitz, said he is afraid of Bush. I would think for someone as intelligent as Stiglitz to say that, something must be wrong. I really hope this whole thing can be resolved peacefully.
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 27,727
- 16
- 81
And do you know why we have such drug problems in Brazil, Colombia and so many other countries? Because the is a lot of DEMAND for them in the US and Europe. The drug problem will NEVER be solved as long as there is people wanting to buy it. It's that simple.
And yeah, we have A LOT of problems here. But I don't really see what it has to do with Iraq.
And if you are a soldier, than you are doing your job. I contratulate you for doing your duty. But did you ever stopped to think if all those wars were really necessary?
The last thing I did was bash USA. But you can't think EVERYTHING your country does is right. We protest a lot here in Brazil, and try to change things. Maybe you should do the same.
LOL! MANY "Nobel prize winners" and others have made statements similar in the past concerning Reagan, Nixon, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, Roosevelt (X2) to name the few I know of..............................
Yeah... maybe you should really blow up a big hole in Iraq, if it would make you all feel better. At least for me, war doesn't make me feel better at all.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 389
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
Facebook
Twitter