This Iraq thing is so simple...

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frombauer

Member
Jul 9, 2000
169
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Pres. Bush can't prove there are mass destruction weapons in Iraq (that's because there are probably none), the only reason USA wants to attack Iraq is to put a sympathetic government there AND CONTROL THE OIL RESERVES. The same Oil makes US support Israel so blindly while Sharon's Nazi government slaughters the poor Palestinians, as Israel is the only true american ally in the middle-east.

Doesn't anyone agree with me here?

I'm Brazillian and I love America, but I strongly disapprove Bush's administration (which is illegitimate, by the way, Gore won in Florida), which is slowly turning into some paranoid ultra-conservative government, and that is scary. An example of this is that after 9/11 the government deported several arab descendants WITHOUT ANY PROOF, and kept them in jail for weeks and they were never charged of any crime. Their only crime is that they looked arab. One of them was deported to Brazil, he was livint in USA for a few years, he was arrested for weeks and then deported, and lost all of his belongingsm clothes, car, etc. This doesn't seem right to me at all.

As far as I can remember, ony one country has ever used a mass destruction weapon on civillians, and we all know which one.

If I were american, I would be really upset about all this, after all, USA is (at least for now) a great and free country.

Please, no flames, only thoughtful, intelligent replies, so if you guys want we can debate this.

Peace.
 
N

no0b

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
3,804
1
0
Please, no flames, only thoughtful, intelligent replies, so if you guys want we can debate this.
Click to expand...

ahahahhhahahhhahahhahaha

shall I bring the s'mores?
 
O

optoman

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 1999
4,181
0
0
Originally posted by: frombauer

As far as I can remember, ony one country has ever used a mass destruction weapon on civillians, and we all know which one.
Click to expand...


Saddam actually used them on his own people. We all knew that.
 
D

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
Isn't it ironic how quickly some of these people will say someone *else* is ignorant?

There's not a single person that fully knows that truth that is capable/willing to speak about it. That automatically precludes any ATOT pontif from disseminating "facts"...

 
N

no0b

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
3,804
1
0
How about this approach: Saddam is an evil military dictator. Thus anybody should do anything to get him out of power.

Note: If we just want oil from there Saddam would be happy to let us take it. The reason why we arent is because of sanctions........ that we set up in the first place...
 
ThePresence

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
81
Originally posted by: frombauer
Pres. Bush can't prove there are mass destruction weapons in Iraq (that's because there are probably none), the only reason USA wants to attack Iraq is to put a sympathetic government there AND CONTROL THE OIL RESERVES. The same Oil makes US support Israel so blindly while Sharon's Nazi government slaughters the poor Palestinians, as Israel is the only true american ally in the middle-east.

Doesn't anyone agree with me here?

I'm Brazillian and I love America, but I strongly disapprove Bush's administration (which is illegitimate, by the way, Gore won in Florida), which is slowly turning into some paranoid ultra-conservative government, and that is scary. An example of this is that after 9/11 the government deported several arab descendants WITHOUT ANY PROOF, and kept them in jail for weeks and they were never charged of any crime. Their only crime is that they looked arab. One of them was deported to Brazil, he was livint in USA for a few years, he was arrested for weeks and then deported, and lost all of his belongingsm clothes, car, etc. This doesn't seem right to me at all.

As far as I can remember, ony one country has ever used a mass destruction weapon on civillians, and we all know which one.

If I were american, I would be really upset about all this, after all, USA is (at least for now) a great and free country.

Please, no flames, only thoughtful, intelligent replies, so if you guys want we can debate this.

Peace.
Click to expand...
I think Einstein had relativity all wrong. He was a moron.
See how stupid that sounds? Because I know absolutely nothing about physics on that level, so who am I to say that? Same kind of situation here, you know absolutely nothing about these situations (Florida elections, Israel/Palestine, Iraq, internal US politics), yet you dismiss them out of hand. Sounds rediculous.

 
C

Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
9,999
1
0
DAMN!

That's the first time I've ever heard someone say that US policy may be influenced by foreign oil!
I guess now we can have a rational, intelligent discussion about this revelation.
 
F

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: frombauer
Pres. Bush can't prove there are mass destruction weapons in Iraq (that's because there are probably none), the only reason USA wants to attack Iraq is to put a sympathetic government there AND CONTROL THE OIL RESERVES. The same Oil makes US support Israel so blindly while Sharon's Nazi government slaughters the poor Palestinians, as Israel is the only true american ally in the middle-east.

Doesn't anyone agree with me here?

I'm Brazillian and I love America, but I strongly disapprove Bush's administration (which is illegitimate, by the way, Gore won in Florida), which is slowly turning into some paranoid ultra-conservative government, and that is scary. An example of this is that after 9/11 the government deported several arab descendants WITHOUT ANY PROOF, and kept them in jail for weeks and they were never charged of any crime. Their only crime is that they looked arab. One of them was deported to Brazil, he was livint in USA for a few years, he was arrested for weeks and then deported, and lost all of his belongingsm clothes, car, etc. This doesn't seem right to me at all.

As far as I can remember, ony one country has ever used a mass destruction weapon on civillians, and we all know which one.

If I were american, I would be really upset about all this, after all, USA is (at least for now) a great and free country.

Please, no flames, only thoughtful, intelligent replies, so if you guys want we can debate this.

Peace.
Click to expand...
I think Einstein had relativity all wrong. He was a moron.
See how stupid that sounds? Because I know absolutely nothing about physics on that level, so who am I to say that? Same kind of situation here, you know absolutely nothing about these situations (Florida elections, Israel/Palestine, Iraq, internal US politics), yet you dismiss them out of hand. Sounds rediculous.
Click to expand...
An interesting editorial on the subject of oil and the proposed war on Iraq appeared in our local paper this week.



Text of editorial by Cynthia Tucker.
 
W

wQuay

Senior member
Nov 19, 2000
712
0
0
How about this approach: Saddam is an evil military dictator. Thus anybody should do anything to get him out of power.
Click to expand...

Right. Unless you're trying to do it with someone else's money and by risking someone else's life, in which case it's stealing and murder.
 
N

no0b

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
3,804
1
0
Lol and these SUV driving people wonder why america is so influenced by oil and why are leaders are trying to get it. Not agreeing with frombauser
 
ElFenix

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
here i thought we supported israel becuase of the jewish vote in such states new york, florida, and california. no, i guess supporting them and making the arabs hate us for it is so that they'll sell us more oil. not to mention that oil prices are pretty reasonable, and more supply (from iraq i guess) would lower the prices to where they were in, oh, 1998, when oil companies weren't making any money. so i suppose that they're really big fans of that.
 
F

frombauer

Member
Jul 9, 2000
169
0
0
How do you know I don't know anything? I read, and I read from different sources, not just US sources. So I can get a bigger picture about all things. Just wathing CNN and Nightline won't give you all the information you need.

Yeah, Saddam is a dictator, but remember US supported many dictatorships in the past when it suited them (including here i Brazil in the 60s when thousands of people were tortured and murdered).

I also think Saddam should be stopped, but a full scale war would do more harm than good. Remember Vietnam? Many people are seeing this war as revenge for 9/11, and while it's undestandeable, it is not right. Even Colin Powell seeks another solution to the Iraq issue.

And about Israel, it's pretty clear what Sharon is doing with the Palestinians. Have you ever read "Palestine" by Joe Sacco? It's a good example of another source of infomation about this issue.
 
N

no0b

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
3,804
1
0
These people who think Bush is so oil centered should look in the mirror. Because the reason he is is because our society is.
 
V

Valinos

Banned
Jun 6, 2001
784
0
0
I say we nuke Brazil. :p

Seriously though, I'd have to agree with you on most of your points except for Bush illegitimately taking the Presidency. That state is so full of idiots, it shouldn't even be allowed to vote for the President. Aside from that, I highly doubt Gore would be any better than Bush. We'd all be hugging trees and listening to senator-approved, kid-safe music.

I do agree that Bush should present some concrete evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. At the moment he's just spouting off about how they used them in the past since Iraq won't allow inspectors in, they gotta have them. Well, in my opinion, they probably do but that isn't enough to make the rest of the world happy. At this point in time, we can't afford to piss off everyone else in the world. Sure we can attack Iraq and find out if they do have those weapons, but what if he doesn't have any? That small chance isn't worth taking and possibly ruining relations with every other country in the world, and further putting us at risk of more terrorist attacks.

However, I do not think this is about oil...that's such an old and overused arguement. I think it is more about political control and getting a foot in the door. I strongly agree with you on how the U.S. is treating Middle Eastern citizens and immigrants though. It reminds me of the Japanese internment camps during WW2.
 
ThePresence

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
81
Originally posted by: frombauer
How do you know I don't know anything? I read, and I read from different sources, not just US sources. So I can get a bigger picture about all things. Just wathing CNN and Nightline won't give you all the information you need.
Click to expand...
I dont watch CNN or Nightline. But this is why I think you know nothing about these situations. These are your words:
The same Oil makes US support Israel so blindly while Sharon's Nazi government slaughters the poor Palestinians, as Israel is the only true american ally in the middle-east.
Thats a rediculous theory. Israel has no oil at all, the US would be alot better off dumping Israel and befriending the oil rich Arab states if this was their intentions. Being friendly with Israel just increases the friction between the US and the oil rich countries, and drives the price up. And as far as the Israeli goverment slaughtering the "poor Palestinians", that just tips me how out of your league you really are.

And about Israel, it's pretty clear what Sharon is doing with the Palestinians. Have you ever read "Palestine" by Joe Sacco? It's a good example of another source of infomation about this issue.
Click to expand...

No, I haven't read it, but I've lived and served in the army there. I'm sure I know alot more about that situation than Joe Sacco, or you.

 
ElFenix

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
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Originally posted by: frombauer


Yeah, Saddam is a dictator, but remember US supported many dictatorships in the past when it suited them (including here i Brazil in the 60s when thousands of people were tortured and murdered).
Click to expand...

heh, are you talking about the when the state of sao paolo rebelled against the "cafe com leite" govt that had ruled brazil for so long, and its army was the biggest in brazil?
 
J

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
81
Oil is a primary factor driving our foreign policy in the middle east. It has to be otherwise nothing makes sense. The Bush people are using scare tactics and making vague claims about how dangerous Iraq might become. Is this cause enough to destroy the country and replace its government?

Iraq might become dangerous to the oil industry's bottom line but where has Iraq directly threatened the people of the United States?

They claim Iraq has ties to al Qaeda and global terrorist networks and I'd hoped today Bush would reveal proof of that but so far nothing. Where's the beef? Here's a summary of Bush's case vs. Iraq. After reading it do you want to invade Iraq? Do you want to fund the estimated $100 billion it will take to achieve an outcome they haven't even defined?
 
ThePresence

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
81
Originally posted by: JellyBaby
Oil is a primary factor driving our foreign policy in the middle east. It has to be otherwise nothing makes sense. The Bush people are using scare tactics and making vague claims about how dangerous Iraq might become. Is this cause enough to destroy the country and replace its government?

Iraq might become dangerous to the oil industry's bottom line but where has Iraq directly threatened the people of the United States?

They claim Iraq has ties to al Qaeda and global terrorist networks and I'd hoped today Bush would reveal proof of that but so far nothing. Where's the beef? Here's a summary of Bush's case vs. Iraq. After reading it do you want to invade Iraq? Do you want to fund the estimated $100 billion it will take to achieve an outcome they haven't even defined?
Click to expand...
Have you considered what might have happened during the Gulf War if Israel hadn't taken out Iraq's nuclear facilities in the '80's? If he develops nukes and then decides to annex all the countries around him, who is gonna go up against him then? I think it's better to get him before he develops them, and I have no doubt that he's trying to.

 
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