This election is tainted, and...

[Preyhunter]

<edit>Ride525,</edit>

You're right, it is Florida law. It is also Florida law that states that the counties have one week after the election to get the certified counts to Harris' office. If we are going to follow the letter of the law in some instances, shouldn't the law be followed in ALL instances? The only people that I've seen trying to bend and stretch the laws to their advantage up to this point is the Gore camp. The Bush camp hasn't had to resort to this because they have continued to hold the lead regardless of what the Gore camp has done (so far).

 

[Nick Stone]

If the election is &quot;tainted&quot; then the Florida state legislature is authorized to step in and select the electors.
Works for me.

 

[Chef0083]

If the results showed Bush winning ( for all this time) and the Fla Legislature stepped in it would be a true travesty. If anyone has tainted the election it's the Democrats.

 

[Preyhunter]

Russ,

I cannot feel sorry for Lieberman. If he was foolish and/or naive enough to NOT see what he was getting into when he threw in with the Gore people, then he deserves any negativity that will be associated with him.

 

[cxim]

I love the democrat public relation statements... where are the actions ??? any memos to operatives of the dem campaign to go back &amp; reevaluate the military ballots ? &amp; ask that they come in ?

any petitions from Gore to do a hand recount in all Fl counties ? no, just any empty gesture....

This has been the democrat pattern for many years say what sounds good &amp; never follow up.

If Lieberman/Gore wanted to show the US what an honest man was, Gore would be on the phone telling the US military to get validation for those military mail in ballots.

&amp; Russ., I'm sure this imbalance is why they want to change the way they count the preggers ballots, so that Bush will pick up a few more.

 

[ride525]

<< I find it interesting that in a county that went 3/2 in Bore's favor they have so far found 108 new votes for Albert and 7 for Bush, which is a ratio of something like 9/1. Not even a Mafia Accountant could explain that away from a statistical standpoint. >>



You are right, Russ, that is interesting.... Where did you find those stats? What county ?

It might depend on what areas were checked so far, and how much of the county. (Some areas were VERY HIGH Gore.)

Oh, and it's worse than you think.... 108 out of 115 would be closer to 14/1 or 15/1.....

 

[Harvey]

<<This election is tainted, and...>>

we should cancel the whole thing. Since around 50% of the entire electorate who were eligible to vote didn't, and neither Gore nor Bush got anywhere near a majority of the possible votes, we should hold a whole new election and declare that neither of these guys would be allowed to run.

Yes, I'm being facetious, but maybe that would get us some candidates that would be worth supporting, for a change.

 

[ride525]

<< You're right, it is Florida law. It is also Florida law that states that the counties have one week after the election to get the certified counts to Harris' office. If we are going to follow the letter of the law in some instances, shouldn't the law be followed in ALL instances? >>



Of course the law should be followed in all instances. The Supreme Court in Florida now has to decide whether the law saying votes had to be in by November 14, gave enough time for another Florida law that allowed for hand recounts.

As a sidelight, California has 28 days to get the votes in.

Also, CNN reported that the Florida SoS had longer for counties to get the overseas results to her, than she requested. She asked for the complete results less than 24 hours after they could have been receive. Apparently, there was another week available.

 

[Russ]

ride525,

It's in Broward County. Saw it on whatever show it is that GumBall is on in the morning. You're right, it is about 15/1.

Russ, NCNE

 

[ride525]

<< any petitions from Gore to do a hand recount in all Fl counties ? no, just any empty gesture.... >>



Gore suggested, and Bush turned him down, flat out, period......
Bush said something to the effect that he wanted to see how this played out legally.
Bush has even refused to meet with Gore about this right now....

 

[Russ]

<< As a sidelight, California has 28 days to get the votes in. >>



Oregon has 20, Washington has 15. Many states are longer than Florida. The reason is that in these states, ANY absentee ballot only needs to be postmarked by election day. In Florida, the majority (only exception is overseas), must ARRIVE by election day.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Russ]

<< Gore suggested, and Bush turned him down, flat out, period...... >>



IF the democrats arguments center on Florida State law, it was an empty promise. The law also places time restrictions on when a manual recount must be requested. That time had long passed when Bore barfed up that rhetoric. As is typical, he was making promises he could not keep.

Russ, NCNE

 

[wiin]

Moonbeam said,&quot;They are stealing the election.&quot;

Huh? Let me see:
1. After three counts, bush is still leading
2. when the votes did not turn out for gore, standard was lowered
3. gore and team said they want all votes counted, yet threw away
military votes

Republican stealing the election? I don't think so. Oh before you say the military votes was thrown out because the envelope was not postmarked, don't.

 

[ride525]

<< The reason is that in these states, ANY absentee ballot only needs to be postmarked by election day >>



I think California's absentee ballots must be received by election day.

 

[Preyhunter]

<< The Supreme Court in Florida now has to decide whether the law saying votes had to be in by November 14, gave enough time for another Florida law that allowed for hand recounts. >>



Of course there was enough time to get the votes recounted. If they truly wanted to get the recounting done in a week's time, they could have done it. Here's a catchphrase for them, &quot;Where there's a will, there's a way.&quot; They are using it as a stall tactic so that they can find more ways to manufacture votes for Gore. It's also amazing how Broward County will change their vote counting criteria midstream to benefit Gore's vote total, but have no problem at all throwing out a large portion of overseas ballots due to technicalities that would benefit Bush. Like I said before, let's follow the laws and procedures that are in place in ALL instances. I'm not saying that we should allow overseas ballots to be counted that do not carry the proper postmark or whatever, but at the same time the &quot;chad standard&quot; should not be altered when the outcome isn't going your way. Stick with it the way it was in the beginning and accept the result. Bush has had the luxury of not trailing in this state, so he doesn't have to resort to tactics that make him look like a cheating ass even as the Gore supporters are making some questionable moves there. I reiterate the usage of the words &quot;so far&quot; as stated in my previous post. As stated earlier in this post, &quot;Where there's a will, there's a way.&quot; It appears as though the Gore camp will stop at nothing until they can claim victory where one doesn't exist.

 

[ride525]

<< After three counts, bush is still leading >>



ONE....The was an original election day count.
TWO...There was a state-mandated machine recount.

There have been a few (four counties?) requested manual recounts.
They aren't finished yet.



<< gore and team said they want all votes counted, yet threw away
military votes >>

Gore didn't throw away military votes and you know it. The local officials did, based on their interpretation of the laws of Florida. There were approximately the same number of overseas votes this election as in 1996. No one has said any different criteria was used this time.

 

[Russ]

ride525,

Looking it up, it appears that you are correct about California. All absentees must be received by 8 PM election day, and the counties have until December 5th to certify the results. That's a stupidly long length of time. Even Oregon, which is entirely vote by mail, doesn't take that long.

EDIT: Must be because the people in Merced are a little &quot;slow&quot;.

Russ, NCNE

 

[ride525]

<< Of course there was enough time to get the votes recounted >>



Well, stay tuned, the Florida Supreme Court will probably give the ultimate answer to that.

Well, did they really have a week? I'm not sure when you can first ask for a recount, but I'd be surprised if it was 8pm on election night.

One of the many things the Florida SC will consider is the SoS ruling in the middle of the week, that hand recounts were illegal, except for proven machine malfunction. The counties were getting differing legal opinions about whether they could even DO a hand recount. They certainly didn't want to proceed while the person in charge of elections in Florida (and coincidently Bush's Campaign Co-Chair) was telling them they legally could not.

 

[rahvin]

eh, the florida supreme court will decide how to balance the two florida laws and Bush will still win. It's just gonna take awhile. I do hope they count those millitary ballots without dates though. It's a damn shame that the millitary in combat zones is allowed to mail for free and that would exclude them from being counted without the postmark. Give them the benefit of the doubt and count their votes.

 

[ride525]

<< EDIT: Must be because the people in Merced are a little &quot;slow&quot;. >>



Russ, are you wearing asbestos today?

I haven't been able to see ANY stats on how the couties hand recounts are going, trying to verify the 15/1 numbers you posted earlier.....They were, to say the least, ......&quot;interesting&quot;....

At least some of these counties have both Democrat and Republican counters, as well as observers from both parties.

 

[Chef0083]

Red:
I never CLAIMED that the democrats were stealing votes I said if ANYONE is stealing votes it's them not the republicans. If not for all this leagal crap brought on out of desperation the election would have been over long ago and with the same outcome that you say will happen anyway. And until your Slanted ass views are proven correct I AM correct! and a crack up side the head would probably do me some good!.

 

[Preyhunter]

<< Well, stay tuned, the Florida Supreme Court will probably give the ultimate answer to that. >>



Their answer to that should say something about their work ethic, as well.

Slightly OT, but whatever happened to the notion that you should bust your ass when tasked with a job?

 

[Nick Stone]

Chef0083

I'd hate for you to misunderstand. Didn't you see my &quot;winky&quot; ?

(Florida state legislature does NOT have a majority of Democrats)

 

[Chef0083]

<< Oh BTW,this County is also predominately Republican. >>


now thats just plain dirty..

 

[Russ]

<< Broward County resumed the hand recounting of its ballots just before 9 a.m. EST Monday. Broward has completed counting 461 of its 609 precincts, giving Democrat Al Gore a net gain of 108 votes. >>



The above is information after GumBall's report this morning, but it's not far off of what he said. Since CNN has carefully avoided giving both candidates vote gains since the hand recount process began (gee, I wonder why?), it's not possble to tell from their site.



<< Well, stay tuned, the Florida Supreme Court will probably give the ultimate answer to that. >>



It remains to be seen if they will give the &quot;ultimate&quot; answer. They will certainly give &quot;an&quot; answer, but the Bore camp has already said that, in the event the ruling goes against them, &quot;other options are on the table.&quot;

Russ, NCNE