Third Generation: Iomega ZIP-750MB @ tom's

[Adul]

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20021219/index.html

With the ZIP 750MB drive, Iomega has not only managed to draw level with standard CD capacities, it actually manages to cram about 100 megabytes more on its medium. The maximum reading and writing data transfer rate of 7.3 MB/s claimed by the manufacturer makes the new ZIP drive a really powerful mobile storage solution.

That's reason enough, then, for THG to examine the third generation of the already legendary ZIP drive a bit more closely.

The ZIP format is very popular across North America in corporate environments. The ZIP is in use in these corporate environments for applications such as user backups or secure, off-line file storage (in a vault or a safe). Even with the advent of more CDRW technology that continues to penetrate the corporate environment, many companies continue to want to leverage their past investment in the ZIP format, and many of them are looking to the ZIP 750 to help them do this.

 

[Lord Evermore]

Psh. CDRW/CDR is probably more commonly found than Zip. And I'd bet with each new version their share gets smaller. Fewer and fewer people will be willing to upgrade to the next size Zip when they've already gotten a CDR drive. I don't know anyone who still uses a Zip drive, and I've only known one person for sure who ever used one.

 

[Macro2]

I happen to like ZIP drives ... but it seems they have gone the way of the CDRW. People think if they have a CDRW they don't need a ZIP.
The bigger problem i see for ZIP and the home bilder (and OEMs) is that when you stick a ZIP on the same channel as the HD it slows down the HD or other device to the speed of the ZIP.
Standard motherboards have 2 IDE channels, 4 devices. If you have a HD, CDROM drive (or DVD) and Burner, the ZIP can't get it's own channel. The best solution is stick in a controller card and run the ZIP off that but this isn't feasible for most OEMs and homebuilders don't seem to want to bother.
So the ZIP is the odd man out.
You could get a RAID board and run the ZIP on it's own channel but I see some RAID boards don't support that anymore and RAID ports have to be used just for RAID.

Mac

 

[merlocka]

Originally posted by: Macro2
I happen to like ZIP drives ... but it seems they have gone the way of the CDRW. People think if they have a CDRW they don't need a ZIP.
The bigger problem i see for ZIP and the home bilder (and OEMs) is that when you stick a ZIP on the same channel as the HD it slows down the HD or other device to the speed of the ZIP.
Standard motherboards have 2 IDE channels, 4 devices. If you have a HD, CDROM drive (or DVD) and Burner, the ZIP can't get it's own channel. The best solution is stick in a controller card and run the ZIP off that but this isn't feasible for most OEMs and homebuilders don't seem to want to bother.
So the ZIP is the odd man out.
You could get a RAID board and run the ZIP on it's own channel but I see some RAID boards don't support that anymore and RAID ports have to be used just for RAID.

Mac

Perhaps I'm clueless but I thought most current IDE implimentations could switch between ATA settings for master and slave device. Since you cannot read/write to both devices simultaniously anyway does having a slower drive matter anymore?

 

[BHeemsoth]

Originally posted by: merlocka

Originally posted by: Macro2
I happen to like ZIP drives ... but it seems they have gone the way of the CDRW. People think if they have a CDRW they don't need a ZIP.
The bigger problem i see for ZIP and the home bilder (and OEMs) is that when you stick a ZIP on the same channel as the HD it slows down the HD or other device to the speed of the ZIP.
Standard motherboards have 2 IDE channels, 4 devices. If you have a HD, CDROM drive (or DVD) and Burner, the ZIP can't get it's own channel. The best solution is stick in a controller card and run the ZIP off that but this isn't feasible for most OEMs and homebuilders don't seem to want to bother.
So the ZIP is the odd man out.
You could get a RAID board and run the ZIP on it's own channel but I see some RAID boards don't support that anymore and RAID ports have to be used just for RAID.

Mac

Perhaps I'm clueless but I thought most current IDE implimentations could switch between ATA settings for master and slave device. Since you cannot read/write to both devices simultaniously anyway does having a slower drive matter anymore?

thats what i thought too

 

[Adul]

it does not slow it down to the speed of the zip transfer rate. It slows it down to the what ever ata standard it is. so if the zip was ata 33 and the HD was ata66 then that would be a problem. But that use to be the case, has other have said it shouldn't matter now

 

[Lord Evermore]

For the most part it doesn't matter, and all current IDE controllers (and for some time now) have independent device timing, so an ATA100 device can operate at its own speed, while an ATA33 device won't slow it down. I'd hope that the Zip750 on an IDE channel at least operates at ATA33 mode just to allow better CPU utilization.

Technically, since an active IDE device has control of the bus, it does slightly slow down activity of the other device on the channel, since the controller has to wait for the slower device to finish an operation before it can revert to the faster device, but it's essentially an unnoticeable slowdown, except perhaps during initial spinup of the Zip disk (that's always been an issue for me if I let my IDE hard drives spin down, the entire system may freeze while waiting for a secondary drive to spin back up).

Zip750 is still, essentially, no better or worse than a CDRW drive, except that CDR is far more common as far as having someone else able to read your final disc. The Zip didn't have phenomenally better speeds than an external CDRW drive except at disc access times. And 750MB discs will for a long time be far less ubiquitous than a CDRW drive except possibly in a corporate environment. And considering the ability to get about 45 or more 40X CDR discs for the same price as a single Zip750 disc, for anyone who only occasionally needs to transfer a file to another system, CDR is far more cost effective (even moreso if you only do one-way transfers, not modifying the file then taking it back to the original computer). The disc space advantage of Zip750 is essentially moot unless it's being used in an environment where you're going to install several Zip750 drives, or plan to carry the Zip drive to every computer that needs to use it, one by one.

In a financial view though, for those corporate environments and users that need large storage for files that need to go back and forth, even an external hard drive is FAR more cost effective (and easy to use) than either Zip or CDRW. A retail 40GB hard drive (7200RPM Seagate, essentially a retail Barracuda) is only 100 dollars and a USB2.0 enclosure only 35 dollars. Even an 80GB pre-built USB2.0 hard drive can be had retail version for under 150 dollars. And those require NO additional software to be installed under MacOS X or WinXP or Win2k or Win98, other than the firewire/USB2.0 drivers that the Zip150 would need as well. A Zip drive still retains the ability to continue using the drive for something else while the disc itself is being transported, of course, but in all these things, there are advantages and disadvantages to each method. I consider a Zip drive to simply not have enough advantages, while CD or external hard drive have more advantages than disadvantages.

 

[Sunner]

I just don't understand why anyone would want one of those.

I mean really, the space advantage is more like 50 MB, I haven't bought a 650 MB CD-R in ages, heck I havent even seen one for sale in ages.
And burners can be had for 1/4 of the price of one Zip750, and let's not even get into the price of the media.

Then there's the fact that everyone and their dig has a CD player, so portability is definately not in favour of the Zip, unless you wanna carry it around with you all the time, and even then you're relying on the host computer to have an USB2 interface.

Bah...why don't they just give up and focus on something new, face it, Zip lost to CD-RW

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
Psh. CDRW/CDR is probably more commonly found than Zip. And I'd bet with each new version their share gets smaller. Fewer and fewer people will be willing to upgrade to the next size Zip when they've already gotten a CDR drive. I don't know anyone who still uses a Zip drive, and I've only known one person for sure who ever used one.

I've worked for architecture firms, engineering firms, general contractors, audio contractors, theaters etc... and the standard is the iomega zip drive, always has been.

It's fast, the disks are durable, you can work off the disk directly w/o coping files. The problems we've had with CDRW drives doesn't make them a real option. Your average architect doesn't know and/or care about the burning process, however give them a disk and it's easy as pie. The day anyone can open a word document, edit it, and save it on the CD, all in one step is the day CDs become an option.

Personally I use CD's for my backup but I'd never suggest them as a professional solution.

 

[Lord Evermore]

As long as the CDRW drive is installed correctly, and there is software installed to allow packet-writing, a CDRW is just as easy to work with as that; open, edit, save. A Zip drive needs just as much software installed to make it work properly. Don't blame the lack of proper setup of a CDRW drive on the technology itself. The only advantage Zip would have in a proper installation is that it's easy to see "Zip250" on the casing of the disc and the drive, whereas it'd be harder to figure out whether you're holding a CDRW or CDR or DVD-R.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
As long as the CDRW drive is installed correctly, and there is software installed to allow packet-writing, a CDRW is just as easy to work with as that; open, edit, save. A Zip drive needs just as much software installed to make it work properly. Don't blame the lack of proper setup of a CDRW drive on the technology itself. The only advantage Zip would have in a proper installation is that it's easy to see "Zip250" on the casing of the disc and the drive, whereas it'd be harder to figure out whether you're holding a CDRW or CDR or DVD-R.

An IDE Iomega drive doesn't need any software at all. Not very many people still use the old parallel port versions, at least I haven't seen one in a while.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
As long as the CDRW drive is installed correctly, and there is software installed to allow packet-writing, a CDRW is just as easy to work with as that; open, edit, save. A Zip drive needs just as much software installed to make it work properly. Don't blame the lack of proper setup of a CDRW drive on the technology itself. The only advantage Zip would have in a proper installation is that it's easy to see "Zip250" on the casing of the disc and the drive, whereas it'd be harder to figure out whether you're holding a CDRW or CDR or DVD-R.

An IDE Iomega drive doesn't need any software at all. Not very many people still use the old parallel port versions, at least I haven't seen one in a while.

Doesn't matter to me. The Zip 750 drive is almost 5x as expensive (Zip 750 is $140 @ NewEgg) as a 48x CD-RW drive (heck, OfficeMax is advertising one today for $29.99 after rebate) drive and a 50-pack of 700MB CDR discs is practically free these days. A 3-pack of Zip750 discs runs $40.

You can get a CD-RW drive AND 50 pack of 700MB CDRs for less than a 3-pack of Zip750 discs. Let's also not forget that DVD-R/RW drives are under $200 now and 4.7GB discs are about a buck a piece.

You can't sucker me into buying this Zip sh!t. I have better things to do with my money

 

[dullard]

There are some good benefits of ZIP drives and disks - especially if you get one for under $5 from your local Goodwill. Sure it will take a while for the 750 MB zips to reach that point, but the lower capacity ones are easy to find there. And the price of the media isn't really that major, since no one needs more than one Zip disk (ok 2 if they are being used as a backup device). So really price isn't a consern at all to me.

The major benefit to me is speed. Copying a file to a CD has never been a fast thing. Even for smaller files just the table of contents takes quite a bit of time to write. When I need to move a 5 MB file between home/work/school, nothing is easier or faster than a ZIP disk.

Thera got the second major benefit, it works just like any other drive. Lord Evermore you may be right that a small percent of CD burners actually can be set up properly, but I've been around about a dozen of them and none work the way they claim (even after endless threads here on Anandtech trying to get them to work that way). With a Zip you put it in and you know exactly how to operate it, and edit on the fly. Honestly how many of you even have the proper CDRW disks to do this - since nearly everyone only uses CDRs.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

I'd much rather have a fast CD-RW drive than a Zip drive. The drive itself is way cheaper, the CD-R's or even RW's cost almost nothing compared to zip discs that size, and you can burn CDs for play in a car stereo for example.

In fact, I think I'd rather have one of those USB Pen Drives that hold 128MB or even 256MB +. You can use those with practically anyone's PC, no Zip drive required. And they're smaller than zip discs, and can fit on a keychain or in on you pocket like a pen! It'd be great to have one of those.

I don't know why you'd buy one of those expensive Zip drives.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
As long as the CDRW drive is installed correctly, and there is software installed to allow packet-writing, a CDRW is just as easy to work with as that; open, edit, save. A Zip drive needs just as much software installed to make it work properly. Don't blame the lack of proper setup of a CDRW drive on the technology itself. The only advantage Zip would have in a proper installation is that it's easy to see "Zip250" on the casing of the disc and the drive, whereas it'd be harder to figure out whether you're holding a CDRW or CDR or DVD-R.

An IDE Iomega drive doesn't need any software at all. Not very many people still use the old parallel port versions, at least I haven't seen one in a while.

Doesn't matter to me. The Zip 750 drive is almost 5x as expensive (Zip 750 is $140 @ NewEgg) as a 48x CD-RW drive (heck, OfficeMax is advertising one today for $29.99 after rebate) drive and a 50-pack of 700MB CDR discs is practically free these days. A 3-pack of Zip750 discs runs $40.

You can get a CD-RW drive AND 50 pack of 700MB CDRs for less than a 3-pack of Zip750 discs. Let's also not forget that DVD-R/RW drives are under $200 now and 4.7GB discs are about a buck a piece.

You can't sucker me into buying this Zip sh!t. I have better things to do with my money

You're right and I agree with you. I'm talking about a business solution though. A zip drive is simple and it works all the time. Try teaching your boss how to prevent buffer over run errors, it's not something worth even trying. That's why I say just get a zip drive and forget it. It's like that IT ad on the TV where the boss says "I think I just crashed the internet." Get enough people with that computer skill level together and you'll be convinced to purchase zip drives for them also.

I love my CDRW drive, but I would never want to deal with training the entire office on the software and tricks that it requires. It's just my opinion.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
As long as the CDRW drive is installed correctly, and there is software installed to allow packet-writing, a CDRW is just as easy to work with as that; open, edit, save. A Zip drive needs just as much software installed to make it work properly. Don't blame the lack of proper setup of a CDRW drive on the technology itself. The only advantage Zip would have in a proper installation is that it's easy to see "Zip250" on the casing of the disc and the drive, whereas it'd be harder to figure out whether you're holding a CDRW or CDR or DVD-R.

An IDE Iomega drive doesn't need any software at all. Not very many people still use the old parallel port versions, at least I haven't seen one in a while.

Doesn't matter to me. The Zip 750 drive is almost 5x as expensive (Zip 750 is $140 @ NewEgg) as a 48x CD-RW drive (heck, OfficeMax is advertising one today for $29.99 after rebate) drive and a 50-pack of 700MB CDR discs is practically free these days. A 3-pack of Zip750 discs runs $40.

You can get a CD-RW drive AND 50 pack of 700MB CDRs for less than a 3-pack of Zip750 discs. Let's also not forget that DVD-R/RW drives are under $200 now and 4.7GB discs are about a buck a piece.

You can't sucker me into buying this Zip sh!t. I have better things to do with my money

You're right and I agree with you. I'm talking about a business solution though. A zip drive is simple and it works all the time. Try teaching your boss how to prevent buffer over run errors, it's not something worth even trying. That's why I say just get a zip drive and forget it. It's like that IT ad on the TV where the boss says "I think I just crashed the internet." Get enough people with that computer skill level together and you'll be convinced to purchase zip drives for them also.

I love my CDRW drive, but I would never want to deal with training the entire office on the software and tricks that it requires. It's just my opinion.

Buffer Underun?? I haven't seen one of those since I had my old Iomega ZipCD 4x4x24 CD-RW drive. Then Burnproof came about and every single CD-RW has it now. I can defrag my hard drive or even play games without my burner software pitching a fit.

 

[Adul]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Thera

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
As long as the CDRW drive is installed correctly, and there is software installed to allow packet-writing, a CDRW is just as easy to work with as that; open, edit, save. A Zip drive needs just as much software installed to make it work properly. Don't blame the lack of proper setup of a CDRW drive on the technology itself. The only advantage Zip would have in a proper installation is that it's easy to see "Zip250" on the casing of the disc and the drive, whereas it'd be harder to figure out whether you're holding a CDRW or CDR or DVD-R.

An IDE Iomega drive doesn't need any software at all. Not very many people still use the old parallel port versions, at least I haven't seen one in a while.

Doesn't matter to me. The Zip 750 drive is almost 5x as expensive (Zip 750 is $140 @ NewEgg) as a 48x CD-RW drive (heck, OfficeMax is advertising one today for $29.99 after rebate) drive and a 50-pack of 700MB CDR discs is practically free these days. A 3-pack of Zip750 discs runs $40.

You can get a CD-RW drive AND 50 pack of 700MB CDRs for less than a 3-pack of Zip750 discs. Let's also not forget that DVD-R/RW drives are under $200 now and 4.7GB discs are about a buck a piece.

You can't sucker me into buying this Zip sh!t. I have better things to do with my money

You're right and I agree with you. I'm talking about a business solution though. A zip drive is simple and it works all the time. Try teaching your boss how to prevent buffer over run errors, it's not something worth even trying. That's why I say just get a zip drive and forget it. It's like that IT ad on the TV where the boss says "I think I just crashed the internet." Get enough people with that computer skill level together and you'll be convinced to purchase zip drives for them also.

I love my CDRW drive, but I would never want to deal with training the entire office on the software and tricks that it requires. It's just my opinion.

Buffer Underun?? I haven't seen one of those since I had my old Iomega ZipCD 4x4x24 CD-RW drive. Then Burnproof came about and every single CD-RW has it now. I can defrag my hard drive or even play games without my burner software pitching a fit.

have to agree with the zip methology, It was just easier to say treat it like a floppy. Trying to explain how to do a cd-rw everytime was a pain in ass. :| they think CD and frek out.

Cds get scratched often due to users being careless :\. If anything need to be on CD i was the one that handled it.