Thinking to "let go" of WMC favoring a Win 10 install on an old laptop

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Kartajan

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2001
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SiliconDust's DVR guys are hoping to release an update next month that finally adds DRM to their DVR. I would say expect them to be late, but I do have hope...
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,384
900
126
SiliconDust's DVR guys are hoping to release an update next month that finally adds DRM to their DVR. I would say expect them to be late, but I do have hope...
You seem very knowledgeable about these issues. Let me ask you something.

When I set up HDHR' #1 and HDHR' #2 on various workstations, I didn't want Workstation #1 and WMC to use HDHR' #2, nor did I want Workstation #2 accessing HDHR' #1.

So in the Silly-Dust "Config" Gui installed at each workstation, I would "disable" the HDHR' I didn't want to access for that workstation.

But you wouldn't need to do that for WMC -- you wouldn't need to "disable" an HDHR' in the SD GUI. WMC allows you to select or de-select tuners 1, 2, or 3 in any and all HDHR's.

It suddenly occurs to me that this Config-GUI feature may not be intended to simply "disable" access to an HDHR' on the installed workstation, but I haven't had problems doing it. I can only say that the HDHR-DVR backend doesn't seem to pay attention to what is active and what is disabled. It will simply continue to treat the "disabled" HDHR' as accessible.

What do you think about this?

If the new release of the DVR program offers hope of DRM, that's better than the hope you get from a lottery ticket for some few days before the drawing, and costs less except for counting the $60 outlay I made for the subscription.

The hardware has been so good for Silicon Dust's products, I just hope they reach a happy conclusion for this DVR project.
 

Kartajan

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2001
1,264
38
91
re: disabling tuners.

The default behavior for the "View" apps is to manage all tuners in a "pool". The best answer is just to deselect in WMC the tuners you don't want used in WMC, since the View software dynamically assigns tuners- it won't use one currently in use (aka: locked) by WMC.

In Android under the Google Live Channels App, LC will only allow 1 tuner "source" per "live channel source", which means I get only one of my Connect devices(2 tuners) on a given Android TV device in that app, but the View app will see them all.

And SD's DVR has had DRM as a major milestone from the beginning, the only real question has ever been "when?".
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,384
900
126
re: disabling tuners.

The default behavior for the "View" apps is to manage all tuners in a "pool". The best answer is just to deselect in WMC the tuners you don't want used in WMC, since the View software dynamically assigns tuners- it won't use one currently in use (aka: locked) by WMC.

In Android under the Google Live Channels App, LC will only allow 1 tuner "source" per "live channel source", which means I get only one of my Connect devices(2 tuners) on a given Android TV device in that app, but the View app will see them all.

And SD's DVR has had DRM as a major milestone from the beginning, the only real question has ever been "when?".
While we're having this conversation over the different behaviors of the VIEW and WMC software, I've been looking at my tuner "web-pages" accessible through either the Config or Setup apps. The HDHR-DVR software doesn't offer up the "Config" app -- only "HDHomeRun Setup." But those same web pages are available at the tuner IP address.

So I would like to ask you another question, if you don't mind.

The two HDHR''s are connected individually by coax to a coax amplifier I purchased at an Electronics "Jobber" specialty warehouse. There is one coax input to the amplifier, and three outputs -- including my cable-provider's STB. Most of the time, the STB is off and only shows the current time, because it's a fallback during computer maintenance and also my access to the On Demand and other provider features. it connects separately to another HDMI port of my TV, using a different speaker system -- but that's not relevant to this question.

The tuner I've had the longest -- also a peripheral concern -- shows "OOB Lock: Weak." So in other words, the indications show "Success," "Weak," "Success" and "Ready" while the other tuner shows what you'd want to see for a good connection: Success, Success, Success and Ready.

I've power-cycled both the tuner adapter and the HHDR', but there's no change. Should I call the cable-provider and ask for a reactivation and reinitialize?

The signal strength for the "Weak" OOB-lock tuner is between 70 and 80%, while that for the other tuner is yellow or green and above 90%.

WHOA! SKIP THAT QUESTION FOR NOW: It just came back to "success, success, success, and ready."

I simply closed Media Center on the system that gives me the 24/7 feed to the AVR/HDTV. One way or another, I need to figure out what happened with this, but it's suddenly "OK" for now.
 
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Kartajan

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2001
1,264
38
91
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,384
900
126
OOB Lock is related to validating your cable card. (USUALLY a weak or failed OOB Lock is due to low signal levels/ excessive splitting.)

If split signal levels being unbalanced is a problem, use even splitters with an appropriate low noise amplifier before the split.

http://support.channelmaster.com/hc/en-us/articles/200383715-How-Much-Signal-Do-I-Lose-Going-Through-A-Splitter-

If that is not the case, it would be something to put in a trouble ticket with SD for a possible hardware problem.
I can only say that the problem seems gone, gone and Gone. For the good part of the last day or so, after "re-enabling" the tuners for what I THOUGHT was each client, I saw the wisdom of your suggestion to simply include or exclude individual tuner #'s within each HDHR' from the WMC setup screens.

I think throughout this excursion into future Win10 solutions and the HDHR-DVR "Kickstarter" project, I've learned some new things about these devices and the software that I had misunderstood before. But my original idea of limiting access between WMC-enabled workstations to this or that tuner was mostly for the purpose of testing the second tuner when I first purchased it. But that might all have been done within WMC. These other settings . . . I can't tell if they had caused me problems, or otherwise.

But the "weak signal" difficulty has disappeared.

Another thing I can say addresses old technology you might try to configure for HTCP duties. I am also testing these options on a 2007-model laptop with built-in graphics and a C2D 2.4Ghz mobile processor. And -- I'm testing it with a wireless-N connection.

The HDHR front-end VIEW software experiences audio and video stuttering, delays in switching channels, and other manifestations (under Windows 10) while the desktop workstation (which is no slug by any means) has VIEW working with little access to any top-tier Premiums in our subscription. I have yet to try recording again, but they sent me an e-mail linking a download of a new version of the back-end firmware.

The firmware works reliably with the WMC as front-end, it even seems like an improvement. And WMC doesn't miss a lick on that laptop, although the lack of HDCP-compliance throws up the same result of inaccessible premiums or top-tier encrypted channels.

Nothing to do but be patient with this. Basically, since one could use KODI and a viable HDHomeRun add-in for it, or VIEW, if it would provide the encrypted channels on an HDCP-compliant system with no less reliability than Win7/WMC, it will be a solution to Win10 and no WMC. You could even choose to use a different suite with "Photos" and other WMC features. There wouldn't be an integration that works with a single remote, but you'd have Live TV and recording.
 

Kartajan

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2001
1,264
38
91
The HDHR front-end VIEW software experiences audio and video stuttering, delays in switching channels, and other manifestations (under Windows 10) while the desktop workstation (which is no slug by any means) has VIEW working with little access to any top-tier Premiums in our subscription.
Stuttering could possibly be a MPEG-2 Decoding issue. For your Win10 machine, do you have VLC installed? I know for a while you needed a proper 32Bit MPEG-2 decoder, which most people got by installing the FREE 32 bit version VLC (the 64 bit version did not tie in to something somewhere). I keep a current version of VLC on my Win10 machine anyway (the setup in my signature) for other things....
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,384
900
126
Stuttering could possibly be a MPEG-2 Decoding issue. For your Win10 machine, do you have VLC installed? I know for a while you needed a proper 32Bit MPEG-2 decoder, which most people got by installing the FREE 32 bit version VLC (the 64 bit version did not tie in to something somewhere). I keep a current version of VLC on my Win10 machine anyway (the setup in my signature) for other things....
So you're saying it might not be the graphics hardware of the laptop? It's not a big priority for that machine, as long as it dual-boots Windows 7 -- for now, anyway. I'll look into this decoder issue.
 

Kartajan

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2001
1,264
38
91
correct, as it is possibly a software issue. The hardware you mentioned should be capable of playing MPEG-2 well if there is not too much else running at the same time.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,384
900
126
correct, as it is possibly a software issue. The hardware you mentioned should be capable of playing MPEG-2 well if there is not too much else running at the same time.
It doesn't have a problem playing back recordings of PBS and other unencrypted channels -- passing it from my server through my AP to the laptop. Then again, I might confirm that by trying it on Win 10, but I thought maybe I had. I just didn't like putting Windows Media Player into the configuration mix.

WMC on Win 7 works flawlessly with the old laptop. I'll look into the matters you mentioned and report back.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,384
900
126
So . . . Kartajan . . .

I installed VLC on the laptop, and things just "improved" somewhat.

I also discovered a source for streaming malfunction when members of my family were using the microwave ovens in the kitchen. But this wasn't the cause of the stuttering I'd experienced, which seems to have disappeared by installing VLC.

Now I'm looking at the VLC configuration tabs, one of them labeled "Capture Device." I'm wondering how I set this up to work with the HDHR'-'s.

Perhaps I'd get the data I need from the HDHR' web-page screens. Maybe you can enlighten me further.

=== HDHR DVR -- So Far ===

On the C2D Penryn laptop, navigating VIEW is sluggish and leads to errors when entering channel numbers from the keyboard. If this results in entering "700" with too many zeros, VIEW fails and returns to the verbose initialization screen. This then requires that you close and restart VIEW.

Just using the arrow keys to change channels as displayed on the right-side of the VIEW window is sluggish with the laptop.

Otherwise, I've yet to test the recording capability from my desktop Sandy-Bridge OC'd game system. I have to open up my WHS-2011 server's VPN capability to save recordings directly to the server. The best idea requires testing the recording feature on the desktop's own HDD storage, which I will get around to doing soon.

But so far -- "no Premiums." Both the desktop and the laptop give the same results channel-wise. There are about three HBO stations which are not "HD" broadcasts, but which display properly in VIEW. Everything else of an encrypted nature simply leaves a black screen in VIEW.
 

Kartajan

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2001
1,264
38
91
I do not recommend using VLC to "watch", just as a means of acquiring the needed codecs.

As far as channel changes, I find the mouse wheel to be the fastest navigation available. (I know, not helpful on a trackpad) Entering a bad channel number does have the effect you note, but keep in mind that is a "search box" , the behavior is much better [not erroring out] on text (like show title or station name "PBS" or "KSAT" or "outer limits" for example.

I actually am not using SD's DVR, I only donated to their kickstarter to get some competition in the DVR space for all those burdened with pervasive DRM- I personally use Tablo for my DVR.. I suggest going to SD's forums for more detailed advice on that front. https://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=119
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,384
900
126
I do not recommend using VLC to "watch", just as a means of acquiring the needed codecs.

As far as channel changes, I find the mouse wheel to be the fastest navigation available. (I know, not helpful on a trackpad) Entering a bad channel number does have the effect you note, but keep in mind that is a "search box" , the behavior is much better [not erroring out] on text (like show title or station name "PBS" or "KSAT" or "outer limits" for example.

I actually am not using SD's DVR, I only donated to their kickstarter to get some competition in the DVR space for all those burdened with pervasive DRM- I personally use Tablo for my DVR.. I suggest going to SD's forums for more detailed advice on that front. https://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=119
The sluggishness was only noticeable with the C2D Penryn laptop. Even so, WMC on the same laptop shows no hesitation.

I appreciate your altruism.
 

Kartajan

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2001
1,264
38
91
If it makes everybody smarter, and my options wider, it eventually makes my solutions more efficient/ cheaper (and thus not really altruism), but thanks for the appreciation...
 

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