Thinking of buying a Lotus Elise. Anyone have/had one?

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JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,578
982
126
Get a used Espirit...profit.

Trouble with that is:

a) who's going to fix it?
b) who's going to pay for the repairs?
c) where are you going to get parts?
d) it's British
e) it's a British car
f) it's a British sports car
g) where are you going to get replacement wiring harness smoke?

Smokekit2.jpg


At least the Elise is a current production vehicle with a well proven Toyota drivetrain.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
lolwut...they share a lot of parts common to other cars.

I'd do the work myself and you can order the parts easily online.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,578
982
126
lolwut...they share a lot of parts common to other cars.

I'd do the work myself and you can order the parts easily online.

Might want to do a little research on that.

http://www.espritfactfile.com/Gen_Info.html

"I don't think you're going to be able to pick and choose the perfect used Esprit--there are probably only a handful available in your budget, and you're not the only one looking for one..."

"My advice? Check everything out on the car. Heat, A/C, power windows, mirrors, propensity to overheat, clunks from the rear end, brakes, clutch, everything. Then, adjust your price accordingly. The major service is at 50,000 miles, where all belts should be replaced. I was lucky--my P.O. had done that only 2,000 miles before I bought it. I'm sure it cost him $800-$1,000US to do it. If the car has a strong gasoline smell in the cockpit (mine did) rejoice--it means you can beat them up on the price (I did-to the tune of a thousand bucks) and then fix it in 20 minutes with a couple of bucks worth of hose."

"If the heat doesn't work--don't buy it. Trust me. If it burns oil, don't buy it. If the P.O. did all his own work, be wary. Probably a bunch of cobbled up repairs lurking for you at a later date."

"Things to look for:"

1. Left rear engine mount bad. This is a lot more common than I thought. Causes a lot of grief, too. It wrecked a $400 exhaust pipe, and a $%#@ coolant hose on my car.
2. Worn belts, especially the timing belt. I wouldn't count doing them by yourself; right away-it's quite a job. After you've dug into the car a whole bunch, it' becomes only really, really, hard to replace them yourself, instead of impossible.
3. Gasoline smell--very, very common. No big deal.
4. Warped front rotors. Check for a pulse in the brake pedal after you've warmed the brakes up a bit. Mine has 'em, but I couldn't tell on the test drive, I guess because they get worse as they heat up.
5. Electrical problems. Check EVERYTHING from the blinkers to the rear window defogger. If it has a switch, turn it on. Do NOT assume that if something doesn't work, you can fix it in ten minutes. You'll see what I mean the first time you snake your torso under the dash.
6. Engine being in tune. I would be very, very, wary of purchasing an Esprit that didn't start right up and idle like a kitten. Again, don't assume that you can just "tune it up" in your garage like an old Triumph. Maybe you can...maybe you can't.
7. Exhaust leaks. If the exhaust is bad, you're in for big bucks.
8. Body damage isn't a super big deal, judging from the guys on the list who do their own fiberglass repairs. I don't, so price accordingly. Expect spider webbing under the paint on an older car. They all have it, and it doesn't bother me a bit. I understand a good, quality paint job on this car can easily cost $8,000 to $10,000 US, so don't buy one expecting to get it repainted for a couple of thousand.

"A lot of this is academic. There were so few Esprits available when I was shopping, that I didn't really have much choice. I doubt you will either. My car has been so maintenance intensive, I would caution someone against buying a Lotus with pre-existing ailments. You'll have your hands full just keeping it running."

I don't want to discourage you, but most people think they can afford a Lotus when they really can't. A Lotus usually requires one of two (usually both) very important expenditures from its owner: 1) deep pockets to take it to the dealer to feed it its periodic diet of extremely expensive parts and service; 2) patience and dedication (along with a certain degree of mechanical skill) to do the repairs and/or maintenance yourself. Both of these demand that you have a certain level of passion for the marque. Most people simply wouldn't put up with the hassle. There-in lies the problem. It's a vicious circle that's perpetuated by people who lack the Lotus passion (or as I call it - disease).

So you wonder why you see some of these cars for sale for so cheap? Here's part of the reason that happens:

1) Many people buy the car because they like how it looks and are surprised at how "affordable" they are compared to other exotics. "Wow! a 1987 Lotus Esprit for only $15,000US!"

2) They show it off to their friends, take it on a few dates, and generally have a good time with it for a while.

3) Disappointment sets in when they realize that:
a) they can't always rely on the car as their only vehicle because it is impractical for carrying anything but the most minimal amount of groceries.
b) British reliability (electrical gremlins, engine fires, roof leaks, etc.) means the car may be out of commission for a while or permanently.
c) Parts, unlike in other British sportscars, are in limited supply and cost an exorbitant amount of cash.
d) Accessibility to various engine components involves dismantling of 20 unrelated components that just happen to be in the way.
e) The nearest dealer is over 100 miles away.
f) People at the parts counter ask stupid questions like "Lotus? Who makes that?"


4) When something breaks, they don't have the money, time or passion to fix the car themselves or get it fixed by the proper repair facility.

5) They let the car sit while they save up for parts or tend to "more important" things.

6) They buy another car to get them to and from work and the supermarket.

7) Friends, spouses, fiancées and others make fun about how the Lotus never runs or how often things appear to go wrong.

8) One day they decide to make a cheap "makeshift" repairs just to get the car going again instead of repairing it properly. This is the stage where they start evolving into the PO (previous owner) or DPO (dreaded previous owner) that we like to use as the scapegoat on the Lotus List for much of what ails our cars.

9) The cheap repair causes something else, seemingly unrelated, to break or makes the car more unreliable. Or, heck, maybe something else breaks on its own, totally unprovoked. Perhaps simply by virtue that it has the words "Pektron Inverter" or "Lucas" on the side of the part.

10) After much disappointment that the car isn't as reliable or takes much more maintenance than a Camry, they sell the car at a loss.

11) This major depreciation affects many things. People get the perceptions the cars are junk, because the only examples they are commonly exposed to have been ill-maintained. This lowers the market value. Toss in the SUV market frenzy to the mix and prices plummet further.

12) You buy the car and start wondering why the heck there's a wiring harness held together with twisty-ties that say "Hefty" on them and the tailpipe is suspended by a coat hanger.

If you don't believe any of this is true, ask anyone on the Lotus List the story about the "Curse of Chuque"!

Most of the uninitiated public thinks that all Esprits must be over $100,000US. After all, they are exotic supercars just like Ferraris and Lamborghinis and everybody knows how expensive those are. Frankly, I kind of like the fact that people think this. Not because of any kind of bragging rights or status thing, but because it keeps a great number of people without the Lotus passion from buying the cars because they assume they're too expensive. My take is that those who really do have the passion will have enough motivation to do a little research and discover the truth: a Lotus may be inexpensive, but it ain't cheap! But, because they are infected with the Lotus virus, it all seems worthwhile...

This is why the greatest Lotus slogan is:

"Lotus, For the few who know the difference..."

Finally, if you think your 1988 Mustang's parts are expensive, you're not ready for the shock of Esprit parts. For example:

Wheel lug bolts $17 each
Suspension bushings $19 to $50 each
Spark plugs $27 each
Small window decals $80 each
Throttle Position Sensor $150
Clutch Disc $200
Pressure plate $200
Set of brake pads (1 axle) $225
Steering wheel $700
Alloy wheels $750 each
Non-assisted steering rack $800
Flywheel $1,500
ECM $2,000
Esprit (Renault) gearbox $16,000
910 (4-cyl turbo) Engine $42,000
I'm sure there are many more expensive, ridiculously priced parts as well. These are the only ones I can recall off the top of my head. Parts prices add up quickly because these parts are more fragile than on other cars. These parts are designed for high performance, not reliability.
 
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JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,578
982
126
Dear god Jules, don't pretend to know anything about cars. Stick to just driving things.

Almost all those parts have substitutes that would be cheaper and better.

I'm sure you could just swap a turbo Honda v-tec motor and trans into one and then? I read through an extensive thread on Lotus Talk about a guy who tried this with an Elise. He never got it working and ended up selling or trying to sell the car after about a year and a half.

I'm sure you could do it with an Esprit though...because you're so amazing.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
How many cars have you owned that you had to buy a brand new engine and transmission?

If you go on to read that site you will see success stories. If you are a 19 year old with a $8/hr job then it's the wrong car.
 

PsiStar

Golden Member
Dec 21, 2005
1,184
0
76
At first I was like "WTF do you want me to become an astronaut for?", but then I clicked on the NASA link.
LOL, I figured .. I built up a 600 WHP WRX, quaife & cusco diffs, PPG dog box & road legal (in several states:|). Incredible fun on the track, but I could have had a few Miatas & equal fun. With the Miata you only have to get used to $200 or $300 for race pads.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,578
982
126
How many cars have you owned that you had to buy a brand new engine and transmission?

If you go on to read that site you will see success stories.

I've been reading on that site. 100k miles is doable if maintained properly. Then you'll likely need a rebuild which is takes 8 hours to remove the engine, 42 hours to rebuild and another 8 hours to reinstall the engine. That's $4350 just in labor. I'd expect to spend at least $7000-8000 on an engine rebuild.

If you are a 19 year old with a $8/hr job then it's the wrong car.

Dur
 

Imported

Lifer
Sep 2, 2000
14,679
23
81
LOL, I figured .. I built up a 600 WHP WRX, quaife & cusco diffs, PPG dog box & road legal (in several states:|). Incredible fun on the track, but I could have had a few Miatas & equal fun. With the Miata you only have to get used to $200 or $300 for race pads.

I'm looking for Miatas now to pick up for track/autox use. I was talking to a few Miata guys the other day at an autocross.. they can get 4 pads/rotors for the cost of just my rear rotors for my G35.. and I don't have to worry much about wrecking a $20k car. I'm looking at '94s and '95s mostly. Would like an R but they're so hard to find..