Thinking about setting up a high end audio system

[s44]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: sdifox
any of you think op will post an update, like soon?

Or should we just continue on our side conversation? 🙂

This entire thread has been side conversations. :laugh:

If he reads those monstrous avsforum threads I suggested, it could take months...

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: sdifox
any of you think op will post an update, like soon?

Or should we just continue on our side conversation? 🙂

This entire thread has been side conversations. :laugh:

If he reads those monstrous avsforum threads I suggested, it could take months...

I think it's too early for him to delve into those avsforum threads. He needs to get a handle on the type of sound he likes, and go from there. The only way to do it right, IMO, is to go out and listen.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: sdifox
any of you think op will post an update, like soon?

Or should we just continue on our side conversation? 🙂

This entire thread has been side conversations. :laugh:

If he reads those monstrous avsforum threads I suggested, it could take months...

I think it's too early for him to delve into those avsforum threads. He needs to get a handle on the type of sound he likes, and go from there. The only way to do it right, IMO, is to go out and listen.

I honestly think avsforum is too big...there is no way I can keep up there. So I don't even try.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: sdifox
I honestly think avsforum is too big...there is no way I can keep up there. So I don't even try.

It's great when you make one specific purchase, though, and want to keep up on it.

E.g. the TV owners' threads.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: sdifox
I honestly think avsforum is too big...there is no way I can keep up there. So I don't even try.

It's great when you make one specific purchase, though, and want to keep up on it.

E.g. the TV owners' threads.

Or read up about two products you are thinking about (issues, 'vs' threads, etc)

Outside of that though, AVS is more of just a good place to kill some time lol

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: sdifox
I honestly think avsforum is too big...there is no way I can keep up there. So I don't even try.

It's great when you make one specific purchase, though, and want to keep up on it.

E.g. the TV owners' threads.

even the official <insert product name> threads are ridiculously long.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: sdifox
I honestly think avsforum is too big...there is no way I can keep up there. So I don't even try.

It's great when you make one specific purchase, though, and want to keep up on it.

E.g. the TV owners' threads.

even the official <insert product name> threads are ridiculously long.

But their search function actually works 😉

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: sdifox
I honestly think avsforum is too big...there is no way I can keep up there. So I don't even try.

It's great when you make one specific purchase, though, and want to keep up on it.

E.g. the TV owners' threads.

even the official <insert product name> threads are ridiculously long.

But their search function actually works 😉

not exactly...you can find the thread, but the particular posts would be challenging. Nothing to do with the search function.

 

[Old Hippie]

Originally posted by: sdifox
any of you think op will post an update, like soon?

:laugh:

As soon as he mentioned a receiver vs seperates, I knew there'd be trouble.

I've never heard that particular Gallo speaker but Anthony Gallo has been around for awhile and has always had some great unusual designs with great sounds.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: sdifox
I honestly think avsforum is too big...there is no way I can keep up there. So I don't even try.

It's great when you make one specific purchase, though, and want to keep up on it.

E.g. the TV owners' threads.

even the official <insert product name> threads are ridiculously long.

But their search function actually works 😉

not exactly...you can find the thread, but the particular posts would be challenging. Nothing to do with the search function.

You can search threads, and it pulls the posts. Works well for me when I am looking for specific stuff.

This weekend was looking up stuff for my gigabyte 780g mobo, and HDMI audio on it. Searched for the mobo, then searched in the thread for HDMI audio and found specific posts.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: sdifox
not exactly...you can find the thread, but the particular posts would be challenging. Nothing to do with the search function.

You can search threads, and it pulls the posts. Works well for me when I am looking for specific stuff.

This weekend was looking up stuff for my gigabyte 780g mobo, and HDMI audio on it. Searched for the mobo, then searched in the thread for HDMI audio and found specific posts.

I meant sheer volume. The search works, the data just doesn't cooperate when you have quotes 🙂

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: sdifox
not exactly...you can find the thread, but the particular posts would be challenging. Nothing to do with the search function.

You can search threads, and it pulls the posts. Works well for me when I am looking for specific stuff.

This weekend was looking up stuff for my gigabyte 780g mobo, and HDMI audio on it. Searched for the mobo, then searched in the thread for HDMI audio and found specific posts.

I meant sheer volume. The search works, the data just doesn't cooperate when you have quotes 🙂

Ah yeah, there is just so much information there it can be a nightmare to find specific things. And asking questions that have been asked before there...... Make sure you wear your flame suit.

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda


And BTW, you and your studies and specs make me sick. I hope you're not this boring in real life. Do you see numbers coming out of the speakers or do you try to listen to them too?

Ah, the classic battle.

B&W does - they were one of the first manufacturers (possibly THE first) to use computers to aid design during the 1970s.

And guess what Abbey Road uses for studio monitors? The ones used to mix, amongst other things, the music for the Lord of the Rings?

Bowers & Wilikins all the way.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead

Originally posted by: EvilYoda


And BTW, you and your studies and specs make me sick. I hope you're not this boring in real life. Do you see numbers coming out of the speakers or do you try to listen to them too?

Ah, the classic battle.

B&W does - they were one of the first manufacturers (possibly THE first) to use computers to aid design during the 1970s.

And guess what Abbey Road uses for studio monitors? The ones used to mix, amongst other things, the music for the Lord of the Rings?

Bowers & Wilikins all the way.

You both are right to a degree. Yes the numbers/specs/studies are a very important aspect of a speaker, but they don't mean shit if it doesn't SOUND good to YOU.

It's a balance of the two, and they must co-exist. If you look at any Hi-Fi review mag/site (that has credentials), they do both subject and objective parts of reviewing the speaker. I can spend Bill Gates fortune on designing the best speaker ever in a computer, but once built may sound like shit. OTOH I could build a speaker just by what I think will sound good, and it may sound like shit. As with most aspects of life, it is not black and white but a shade of grey.

 

[sdifox]

I think of specs as the first requirement. If the specs "sound" ok, then you listen to the speakers to see if you like the sound.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: sdifox
I think of specs as the first requirement. If the specs "sound" ok, then you listen to the speakers to see if you like the sound.

I agree. I usually go through and read specs/reviews on them, and weed them out by that. Then with whats left I'll go take a listen to them as best as I can (some just aren't sold by me).

The way I cut speakers are
Specs/reviews online
Places to audition near me
Actual audition in their room
At home audition for the final 2-3 choices (when I am actually ready to buy)

 

[Project86]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

You both are right to a degree. Yes the numbers/specs/studies are a very important aspect of a speaker, but they don't mean shit if it doesn't SOUND good to YOU.

It's a balance of the two, and they must co-exist. If you look at any Hi-Fi review mag/site (that has credentials), they do both subject and objective parts of reviewing the speaker. I can spend Bill Gates fortune on designing the best speaker ever in a computer, but once built may sound like shit. OTOH I could build a speaker just by what I think will sound good, and it may sound like shit. As with most aspects of life, it is not black and white but a shade of grey.

I think you need to make a distinction here. Is you goal accurate reproduction of the recorded content, or a sound that fits your preferences?

I'm sure we all know someone who likes the "bass boost" feature so their loud subs in the car sound extra loud.... and many people prefer the "smiley face" EQ settings on their mp3 player. If the goal is simply to find a sound that pleases you, I can respect that. But let's be clear that "what sounds good to you" may not be what really sounds good, in terms of correct reproduction of the original recording.

That being said, it has been fairly conclusively shown that the loudspeakers most preferred in objective listening tests are those that have the smoothest, flattest, and most extended frequency responses maintained uniformly off axis. That is the most important factor in judging the sound of a loudspeaker, period. Build a speaker that achieves that mark and you have built an excellent speaker that will appeal to most people. A magazine (even one with credentials) may still not enjoy the speaker because of price, brand reputation, looks, advertising placed in the magazine, etc..... even if tests show it to be highly accurate. They prefer to talk about the grain, or color, or texture, or some other subjective nonsense that may well mean something to them but is not transferable to another person.

EDIT: forgot to link to back up my statement earlier:
Link to study

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Project86

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

You both are right to a degree. Yes the numbers/specs/studies are a very important aspect of a speaker, but they don't mean shit if it doesn't SOUND good to YOU.

It's a balance of the two, and they must co-exist. If you look at any Hi-Fi review mag/site (that has credentials), they do both subject and objective parts of reviewing the speaker. I can spend Bill Gates fortune on designing the best speaker ever in a computer, but once built may sound like shit. OTOH I could build a speaker just by what I think will sound good, and it may sound like shit. As with most aspects of life, it is not black and white but a shade of grey.

I think you need to make a distinction here. Is you goal accurate reproduction of the recorded content, or a sound that fits your preferences?

I'm sure we all know someone who likes the "bass boost" feature so their loud subs in the car sound extra loud.... and many people prefer the "smiley face" EQ settings on their mp3 player. If the goal is simply to find a sound that pleases you, I can respect that. But let's be clear that "what sounds good to you" may not be what really sounds good, in terms of correct reproduction of the original recording.

That being said, it has been fairly conclusively shown that the loudspeakers most preferred in objective listening tests are those that have the smoothest, flattest, and most extended frequency responses maintained uniformly off axis. That is the most important factor in judging the sound of a loudspeaker, period. Build a speaker that achieves that mark and you have built an excellent speaker that will appeal to most people. A magazine (even one with credentials) may still not enjoy the speaker because of price, brand reputation, looks, advertising placed in the magazine, etc..... even if tests show it to be highly accurate. They prefer to talk about the grain, or color, or texture, or some other subjective nonsense that may well mean something to them but is not transferable to another person.

EDIT: forgot to link to back up my statement earlier:
Link to study

Only problem is most people don't get to see the FR diagram. Hell, few manufacturers are willing to show that to clients.

 

[Blurry]

Hey guys,

thanks for the enormous amounts of comments - I was getting lost looking at all this side conversations😀

Anyways, I have returned the Gallos - I felt that I was too rushed into buying them without really testing them out.

I have spent most of these weekends listening to several setups - including B&W's, Martin Logans, more Anthony Gallos (lol), etc. I must say, this whole process is a lot of fun but it is also very tiring - sometimes I just want to bite the bullet and buy a set just to bring it home and call it a day.

Anyways, I have come to some conclusions:

Electrostatic speakers are a no no for me because it feels like I need to be sitting in front of it in order to fully appreciate the sound. Also, cleaning can be a PITA due to all those little holes where dust can accumulate.

B&W's - My new personal favorite - they ROCK, particular the 800's series, but man they are expensive. Nonetheless, I'm starting to lean towards these babies just because I liked their sound signature so much.

Anyways, I'm less worried about the amps and accessories because I talked to a few salespersons - they all told me they would match the right equipment with the speakers. Interestingly, a few told me not to go for the Class A amps - that a good class D amp is more than good enough and I'd be hard pressed to find any differences.
On the plus side, the energy savings are always welcome nowadays.

I'll try to keep this updated when I have the time - right now, I'm really leaning towards the B&W's. If I do get this whole thing sorted out, I'll post pics of my setup ASAP.

Thanks again

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Blurry
Hey guys,

thanks for the enormous amounts of comments - I was getting lost looking at all this side conversations😀

Anyways, I have returned the Gallos - I felt that I was too rushed into buying them without really testing them out.

I have spent most of these weekends listening to several setups - including B&W's, Martin Logans, more Anthony Gallos (lol), etc. I must say, this whole process is a lot of fun but it is also very tiring - sometimes I just want to bite the bullet and buy a set just to bring it home and call it a day.

Anyways, I have come to some conclusions:

Electrostatic speakers are a no no for me because it feels like I need to be sitting in front of it in order to fully appreciate the sound. Also, cleaning can be a PITA due to all those little holes where dust can accumulate.

B&W's - My new personal favorite - they ROCK, particular the 800's series, but man they are expensive. Nonetheless, I'm starting to lean towards these babies just because I liked their sound signature so much.

Anyways, I'm less worried about the amps and accessories because I talked to a few salespersons - they all told me they would match the right equipment with the speakers. Interestingly, a few told me not to go for the Class A amps - that a good class D amp is more than good enough and I'd be hard pressed to find any differences.
On the plus side, the energy savings are always welcome nowadays.

I'll try to keep this updated when I have the time - right now, I'm really leaning towards the B&W's. If I do get this whole thing sorted out, I'll post pics of my setup ASAP.

Thanks again

Jury is still out on the new D class amps. You can stick to A/B class and there are plenty of good, decently priced amp in the A/B class.

 

[Muadib]

Can't go wrong with B&W, IMO. I was all set to pull the trigger on a 700 series setup when a pal F'ed it up by telling my gf before I had a chance to. I also loved the 800 series, but they were out of my price range. Which of the 800 series do you have your eye on?

Electrostatic speakers are a no no for me because it feels like I need to be sitting in front of it in order to fully appreciate the sound. Also, cleaning can be a PITA due to all those little holes where dust can accumulate.

Isn't that the same for all speakers? If you are out of the sweet spot, the sound will suffer.

I can't help but :laugh: at your cleaning comment. My pal who has ML's rarely cleans his, as dust never gets on them. That's a total contrast to the KEF's he had.

Anyways, I'm less worried about the amps and accessories because I talked to a few salespersons - they all told me they would match the right equipment with the speakers. Interestingly, a few told me not to go for the Class A amps - that a good class D amp is more than good enough and I'd be hard pressed to find any differences.

I'll admit that I'm not up to speed when it comes to class D amps, but I find that statement a bit hard to swallow. Can anyone else chime in?

 

[Blurry]

Current favorite are the B&W 802D's ...though I'd admit that at $14k /pair they are nearly 7X the price of the Gallo's - going to have to convince my dad to chip in $5k to help me swallow this enormous cost.

-Muadib

Yeah, I figured the whole dust thing isn't that big of a deal - was a great tactic by a saleman to steer me clear from the ML's and into the more expensive speakers that had on the floor.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Blurry
Current favorite are the B&W 802D's ...though I'd admit that at $14k /pair they are nearly 7X the price of the Gallo's - going to have to convince my dad to chip in $5k to help me swallow this enormous cost.

-Muadib

Yeah, I figured the whole dust thing isn't that big of a deal - was a great tactic by a saleman to steer me clear from the ML's and into the more expensive speakers that had on the floor.

look into used.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Blurry
Current favorite are the B&W 802D's ...though I'd admit that at $14k /pair they are nearly 7X the price of the Gallo's - going to have to convince my dad to chip in $5k to help me swallow this enormous cost.

-Muadib

Yeah, I figured the whole dust thing isn't that big of a deal - was a great tactic by a saleman to steer me clear from the ML's and into the more expensive speakers that had on the floor.

14k is the list price, isn't it? So the guy wouldn't bulge?

 

[EvilYoda]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Blurry
Current favorite are the B&W 802D's ...though I'd admit that at $14k /pair they are nearly 7X the price of the Gallo's - going to have to convince my dad to chip in $5k to help me swallow this enormous cost.

-Muadib

Yeah, I figured the whole dust thing isn't that big of a deal - was a great tactic by a saleman to steer me clear from the ML's and into the more expensive speakers that had on the floor.

14k is the list price, isn't it? So the guy wouldn't bulge?

It's standard practice to offer 10% off, so you should be able to count on that. A few years ago, some high-end shops were doing well enough that they didn't have to budge (or bulge 😉) on a price, but with the economy being what it is, I don't see that being the case.

Have you poked around on Audiogon yet? I'm not a huge fan of spending hours upon hours of a dealer's time, knowing that you'll never buy from them. But if you do want to save a considerable amount of money, buying used is the way to go. I feel that you should at least give the dealer a chance to make the sale, as the audition process is part of the experience. But it's your call.