Thinking about moving back to PC...

[Mrvile]

Hey everyone,

For the past couple of years I had been using the Macbook Pro that all students get through the school as my main computer. Over the winter our house was robbed and my laptop got stolen. Fortunately, I had it fully insured and everything backed up. Worked with insurance for several weeks, and finally received the insurance check in the mail yesterday. I have roughly $2600 to spend on a replacement laptop.

Okay so here's the deal. The main power of the computer will be geared towards 3D modeling and rendering. Solidworks (Photoview 360) and Rhinoceros (Flamingo). Also some other things like Photoshop, Illustrator, that kind of stuff. I don't really game much anymore, but I do indulge from time to time.

Now what confuses me is why our school made us use Macs in the first place. Adobe Suite runs great on a Mac, but we have to use Boot Camp/Windows XP for both Solidworks and Rhino, and many of us have found Boot Camp to be less than absolutely stable. As much as I have come to love the Macbook Pro and OSX, switching back and forth between operating systems is a PITA. It will be easy enough for me to just buy another MBP, but now I'm hesitant.

I've been wondering if switching back to PC platform will just be a better solution. Windows 7 looks great, and I will probably be able to get a more powerful system for cheaper. I've been looking at both HP Elitebooks and Lenovo W-series workstations and they look promising, but I'm pretty out of the loop so I'm not sure.

However, there's still a part of me who loves the Macbook Pro. It's just so thin (this is nice, I'm on the move quite a bit), quiet, great battery life, and I've gotten quite used to OSX by now.

Any advice or suggestions? If I were to go with a PC, what are the best machines to consider? Any reason to stick with Mac?

Thanks in advance!

PS - Couple of things I'm not sure about:
Quadro/NVS(PC) vs. Geforce 9600GT (Mac)
i7 Quad core (PC) vs. 2.66ghz Core 2 Duo (Mac)
Any groundbreaking new updates with the new MBP?

And for the record, my old Macbook Pro had 2.53ghz C2D, 8600GT, 4GB mem.

 

[boomhower]

If you stick with apple wait for the refresh. Do not get another C2D.

 

[Mrvile]

If you stick with apple wait for the refresh. Do not get another C2D.

Do you know when the next wave is expected? I'm on a loaner computer through the school right now so I don't exactly have the luxury of waiting too long...

 

[metalmania]

Why not just get a Thinkpad T410 with i7-620M, NVS 3100m, 8GB DDR3, 14" WXGA+, 320GB HDD and 9 cell battery for less than $1900?

 

[Alienwho]

Do you know when the next wave is expected? I'm on a loaner computer through the school right now so I don't exactly have the luxury of waiting too long...

Rumor is the official announcement should be any day now. Then again this same rumor was around months ago as well.

Personally I'd spend $1000 on an i5 powered 15" PC notebook and pocket the rest because when the macbook pro refresh comes it will be the exact same hardware and will cost a minimum of $2000. If you spend the most of your time in windows anyway it's a no brainer.

 

[CurseTheSky]

The HP Envy 15 with the current $450 coupon is worth a look. It can be upgraded to an i7 / 8+ GB of RAM / dual SSDs / etc. They "only" come with an HD 5830 - great cards, but more geared toward gaming than photo and video work, so look for reviews to see if the card will work fine with what you do.

They are known to run hot with i7s though. A notebook cooler would be a good investment if you go that route.

 

[Mrvile]

Why not just get a Thinkpad T410 with i7-620M, NVS 3100m, 8GB DDR3, 14" WXGA+, 320GB HDD and 9 cell battery for less than $1900?

Because I prefer 15", and the Thinkpad W510 with i7-820QM, Quadro FX 880M, 4GB ram, 320GB HDD and 9-cell battery is $1929 with the current sale.

Although I don't really know the difference between FX and NVS, and I'm not sure if I'll be better off with 8GB ram instead of 4. Any pointers? It's been years since I've even looked at PC stuff, and I've never really considered anything for modeling work so the workstation world is completely foreign to me.

 

[Mrvile]

Rumor is the official announcement should be any day now. Then again this same rumor was around months ago as well.

Personally I'd spend $1000 on an i5 powered 15" PC notebook and pocket the rest because when the macbook pro refresh comes it will be the exact same hardware and will cost a minimum of $2000. If you spend the most of your time in windows anyway it's a no brainer.

Well the thing is, ultimately I still spend more time on the Mac side, because right now I prefer OSX to XP Pro. The only time I'm ever on the windows side is when I'm using Solidworks or Rhino.

But you're definitely right. There's a huge premium to pay for a nice OS interface and a thin chassis. How cheap of a Windows machine can I get that will still match/exceed the 3D performance of the current 2.66 C2D/9600GT MBP's?

 

[Chiefcrowe]

Personally I think windows 7 is pretty great, you'll be happy with it. I just got it with my new machine.
As far as ram, i'd go with 8 GB if i were you since you're doing rendering/graphics work. The more the merrier for that!

 

[beginner99]

I'm by no means an apple fan and would recommend buying a macbook but if you are used to it and especially for certain applications fields it might be the better choice.

Anyway I would have a look at VmWare fusion. Lets you run windows on a mac. Costs 80 $. (plus of course the licence for windows).

 

[Spicedaddy]

2600$... 3D modeling and rendering... Photoshop, Illustrator...

Get a Core i5/i7 desktop with dual monitors, and a 13" laptop. Much better setup than a single expensive Macbook Pro IMO, especially if you spend more time in Windows.

 

[MJinZ]

You want power right? It would be silly to buy a pretty little underpowered, overheating Macbook Pro again.

A Core i7 paired with a high end Quadro or Geforce will rip apart anything Apple has to offer.

 

[droopydrawers]

Another vote for VMFusion here which unlike Boot Camp, lets you switch back and fourth bwtn OSs without reboot. Works very well.

 

[TheStu]

The current version of Parallels apparently offers more performance, but expect both Fusion and Parallels to keep pushing. Fusion may be a free upgrade (or greatly reduced cost) between versions, whereas unless you buy a new copy of Parallels close to the release of the next version, you tend to not get a discount.

There allegedly will be updates to the MacBook Pro line soon, and I would recommend waiting for that. As of right now, PC laptops exceed the performance of what Apple has to offer, but when Apple releases new models, expect that gap to close (possibly flip, Apple has been known to wrangle good deals out of intel). If you intend to use your laptop for extended periods on battery, I would recommend waiting for the Apple refresh, they are talking about 8 hours of life on the next models, and that is a number that few PC laptops can touch without bulky extended batteries.

 

[ATC9001]

What size notbook do you want? You can get Sager/Clevo models like the W860CU and 870CU which is 15.6 and 17". Very powerful, and come with either 285m or a 5870m...I'd search around and see if either are softmodable to be quadro's or fireGL's...if so it'll demolish anything apple has to offer for the price.

For ease of use I'd get the w860cu, upgarde the screen to 1920x1080, move to 8gb RAM, put in an SSD, probably splurge for a 160gb X-25M and the 820qm CPU. That would run you around 2500...you can do it cheaper (maybe 200-300) by buying parts and piecing it together yourself.

The biggest thing is the video card. Moving to a quadro makes a huge jump in price even though the card is almost identicle to the desktop/consumer/gaming counterpart. Some deep research into softmodding either a 285m or 5870m is well worth the investment. A softmod will also let you game as well.

If you want a 17" notebook, asus G73jh (although very large and kind of obnoxious looking IMHO) is a hell of a deal, for 1500 bucks you get a 720m, 5870m 8gb of RAM and 1TB of HDD space (I'd take one drive out and put in a 80GB X-25M for OS and CAD programs).

No matter what computer you get, get an SSD for OS and CAD programs.

 

[Headfoot]

3d Modeling and Rendering is usually pretty awful on notebooks unless you get a desktop replacement. I'm not sure of your particular situation, but I'll give a couple pieces of advice.

General info for 3d Modeling: Fast CPU is very important. Large resolution is more workspace, very nice. OS is largely irrelevant as most popular 3d modeling programs run in both (sometimes only in Windows). Having a Quadro or FirePro professional card helps too.

General info for photo editing: RAM IS KING! Get lots and lots of fast ram. Second is the processor, faster processor will process your post-production more quickly. Lastly is the videocard, as long as its recent from either company it should be fine. An important consideration is the quality of your monitor, almost all laptop LCDs suck. The ones in MBPs are IPS panels which are better, but for the extra money a MBP costs you could get a high-quality IPS LCD monitor to plug anything into.

Option 1: Best option
Buy a nice desktop that is a beast at 3d rendering (huge, fast RAM and an i7 920/930 minimum) with a Quadro or FirePro (they are expensive but they are optimized for professional applications) and then get a competent laptop for doing light work on the go, like an Alienware M11x or one of the cheaper HP Envys.

Option 2: One laptop to rule them all
This is if you really need to have all of your power on the move, it will definitely be slower than the desktop but then your amount of mobile power is greater. For this I would follow the advice of ATC9001 and get a good Sager/Clevo and softmod it.

Don't bother with Mac. Think about it, you're paying more just to use the exact same programs you could use in Windows. How much does that really matter? You can install any other feature that comes standard on Mac onto a PC with the money you save. Windows 7 is great, looks awesome, works well, and supports SSDs the best out of any OS hands down.

TLDR version: Get a fast desktop and a decent laptop. Don't get Mac, just use all your programs in Windows 7 and use the saved money to get a faster comp or better external monitor.

 

[Mrvile]

Okay guys, I ended up getting an HP Elitebook 8540w. I went with HP because our school gives the architecture students Elitebooks for AutoCAD and Rhino, though I'm not sure why we get Macs. I was able to take a look at my friends' HPs and they seem quite nice, though their components are a generation or two old.

My specs are something like: 2.66ghz i7, Quadro FX 880M, 4GB ram, total cost plus tax/shipping was $1820. Sure beats shelling out $2400 for a MBP, ~$300 for Windows, and $350 for Applecare.

Also, our current MBPs (with C2D and 8600GTs) run our modeling programs satisfactorily for the work we do now, as we are still students, so I'm sure I'll enjoy the performance boost either way. As much as I would love to build up another desktop and have a tiny laptop for mobility, as a student I just can't justify that kind of investment, especially since computer work isn't our primary focus. Maybe some day when I have a real job, but for now, the Elitebook should be plenty.

Thanks for all the help, everyone. Times have definitely changed since good ol' 2004

Oh and oddly enough, the new MBPs were announced today. Just my luck. Though a quick glance at the specs tells me that it's still not worth it