Thinking about becoming a teacher.

[jpiniero]

It's an over saturated market.

Pretty much every job out there is an over saturated market.

 

[BikeJunkie]

My wife is a teacher (high school math), as is her brother (elementary).

"Summers off" is a myth. My housemate has worked five of the last 8 weeks, and is back to work for the year in another week.

Not really a myth. Neither of them have worked (in a teaching capacity) at all this summer. If a teacher chooses to get a summer job, that's not really a strike against the "summers off" aspect of teaching; it's just a personal choice.

But hearing from my friends who became teachers, I see that the job is less tough as you teach higher grades. Elementary is the worse follow by middle school.

Hogwash. My brother in law is an imbecile. He's a very nice imbecile, but he's still an imbecile. Aside from dealing with toddler drama, his job is basically just to make sure no one eats too much paste or stabs someone with scissors. My wife, on the other hand, works 10 - 16 hour days during the school year, mostly grading (planning is mostly done at the department level, so there's less of that).

There is a reason secondary teachers - and STEM teachers, specifically - are paid more: it's harder to get there, it's more work, and your opportunity costs are high. My brother in law is out the door every day at quittin' time. When he starts QQ'ing over all the work teachers do, I like to remind him I haven't seen quittin' time since I was promoted past file clerk.

Nepotism is rife at most good school districts so if you're competing with a teacher whose mom works on the school board you can forget about getting the job. I've seen teachers with 10 years experience lose out to new teachers because his/her mom was involved with the district.

100% true (re: nepotism / friends), but the reason teachers with 10 years of experience have difficulty getting hired has far more to do with the fact that, thanks to unions, they (must) command a much higher salary. Schools - even those in "good" districts - would much prefer to hire an unknown right out of college for $35k, rather than a proven veteran for $60k.

But the friends/family thing is a very serious problem. I've seen principals hand out jobs as favors, etc. Everyone is scratching each others' backs, and the quality of the teacher usually has shit to do with any decision being made.

This all stems from the fact that you have juveniles running the systems; these people went from high school, to college, and then right back to high school. They don't have a fucking clue what it truly means to compete for your job, to have your successes and failures measured, and to not be sucking off the government tit for insurance and retirement... yet teachers bitch louder than anyone about how they're not paid enough, their benefits aren't good enough, blah blah blah.

You can opt to get paid during the summer, like have your pay spread out over 12 months.

Yep, but see above. Financial responsibility isn't in your average teacher's repertoire.

My wife worked in the private sector for almost 15 years before becoming a teacher. Her brother, on the other hand, went straight into teaching. It's hilarious to listen to him bitch and moan and writhe about all the horrible horrendous predicaments that bestow our teachers. My wife, thankfully, isn't shy about telling him to STFU and be thankful.

 

[Imp]

This all stems from the fact that you have juveniles running the systems; these people went from high school, to college, and then right back to high school. They don't have a fucking clue what it truly means to compete for your job, to have your successes and failures measured, and to not be sucking off the government tit for insurance and retirement... yet teachers bitch louder than anyone about how they're not paid enough, their benefits aren't good enough, blah blah blah.

Yep, but see above. Financial responsibility isn't in your average teacher's repertoire.

My wife worked in the private sector for almost 15 years before becoming a teacher. Her brother, on the other hand, went straight into teaching. It's hilarious to listen to him bitch and moan and writhe about all the horrible horrendous predicaments that bestow our teachers. My wife, thankfully, isn't shy about telling him to STFU and be thankful.

I am also seriously considering getting into teaching... But one of the biggest hurdles right now, aside from it being an oversaturated job market, is that I may not be qualified to teach anything beyond junior school.

Looking up teachers' colleges, it looks like my undergrad and grad engineering degrees don't have enough "academic" content. Maybe I can get a pass, but my impression is that I'd need to go back, get at least 3 more full year credits to be able to teach intermediate. Worst case, I may have to do another bachelor's degree -- it'd be way shorter since I've done one before. One teachers' college said they prefer people who've done degrees with 75% "academic" content.

Maybe this is why teachers keep telling us to go to post-secondary and blow off everything that doesn't include university?

 

[nageov3t]

Being a teacher is tough. But hearing from my friends who became teachers, I see that the job is less tough as you teach higher grades. Elementary is the worse follow by middle school.

You can get summer off, assuming you can budget your 9-10 month salary into it.

My friend is pregnant and is a 5th grade teacher and working three jobs in the summer (summer school, commercial tutor and a nails technician in the weekend) to get by during her "time off". And I keep hearing her rant about not being paid enough, having to spend her own money on class room supplies, grading home work and planning lessons year round.

sounds like poor budgeting... teachers get paid a yearly salary and can elect to have it distributed over the course of 12 months instead of 9 if they so desire.

my mom worked summer school every year once my sister and I were old enough that we could be left home alone all day, but it was purely for extra/fun money not because she actually needed to.

 

[Imp]

sounds like poor budgeting... teachers get paid a yearly salary and can elect to have it distributed over the course of 12 months instead of 9 if they so desire.

my mom worked summer school every year once my sister and I were old enough that we could be left home alone all day, but it was purely for extra/fun money not because she actually needed to.

I've met way too many people in real-life -- we're all special on ATOT, seriously, in more ways than one -- to be surprised that people have money management issues. Most I know get paid very well relative to the national median and average, but they're still essentially paycheck to paycheck.

 

[dn7309]

sounds like poor budgeting... teachers get paid a yearly salary and can elect to have it distributed over the course of 12 months instead of 9 if they so desire.

my mom worked summer school every year once my sister and I were old enough that we could be left home alone all day, but it was purely for extra/fun money not because she actually needed to.

Well, I got to agree with you there. I always thought she was bad at managing money.

 

[Wuzup101]

I personally wouldn't do it. Maybe a career change is in order, but I wouldn't go back to school at your age to become a teacher. My mom is a HS math teacher, who should be retiring next year. She loves teaching, and for her it works. but it's not something that you get into because you want to have summers off.

Teaching the low grades, you aren't going to have a ton of stuff to take home every day and the lesson plans aren't nearly as detailed as they are in the upper grades. That being said, it's not worth it if you don't get something out of it IMHO (more than summer off).

It's very competitive to get into, and wages are generally low to start (for someone with a college degree) as compared to just getting a math/science/engineering degree but benefits (specifically retirement) are good. It's much easier to get into a math/science related teaching job in the higher grades because they are more in demand. It's because the people who have degrees that support teaching those specific areas have lots of other options. You can't really do much else with an elementary ed degree.

Teaching isn't portable. I know that I can quit my job right now and have a new one at the same pay rate in quite a few areas of the country with little effort in 2 months or so (a lot less if I remain a consultant). That may be true for a 1-2 year teacher (though it would take more work and demand is seasonal). Once you have 10+ years in, good luck getting your salary at another district if you want/need to move. Furthermore, in certain areas of the country teaching simply doesn't pay.

As another member said, it's an over-saturated market. Not all jobs markets in this country are over-saturated. There are plenty of jobs in my field and they often go unfilled for months after being posted.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I would not recommend it unless you're passionate about teaching.

My wife is a special ed teacher. A lot of pay/benefit things mentioned in this thread will vary considerably based on location. Here:
- The insurance isn't great or cheap.
- Step increases don't get approved often. This means my wife makes the same as a first year teacher after 7 years.
- Base pay is below the local median income.
- The only factors that increase pay are step and level of degree you hold. What you teach and the demand for it mean nothing.
- Continuing education is basically an ongoing thing. Need x credits every 5 years or you can be fired.
- For special ed, there is no "set it and forget it" after your first few years. Every student has an individualized education plan and you teach and accommodate to it.
- You get 3 vacation days. Yep, you get 8-10 weeks for summer, but that's the only time you can really take vacation or recover mentally.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

It's a saturated market if you're only interested in teaching in schools in nice neighborhoods. My wife recently applied to 5 schools in the Tampa area and was offered the position at every school.

She even had other schools calling to ask if she was still looking from other districts down there.

Just need to be willing to teach low income kids and you will find a job. Just be ready to have your heart broken because their parents are utter pieces of shit.

 

[Mai72]

I would not recommend it unless you're passionate about teaching.

My wife is a special ed teacher. A lot of pay/benefit things mentioned in this thread will vary considerably based on location. Here:
- The insurance isn't great or cheap.
- Step increases don't get approved often. This means my wife makes the same as a first year teacher after 7 years.
- Base pay is below the local median income.
- The only factors that increase pay are step and level of degree you hold. What you teach and the demand for it mean nothing.
- Continuing education is basically an ongoing thing. Need x credits every 5 years or you can be fired.
- For special ed, there is no "set it and forget it" after your first few years. Every student has an individualized education plan and you teach and accommodate to it.
- You get 3 vacation days. Yep, you get 8-10 weeks for summer, but that's the only time you can really take vacation or recover mentally.

About vacation days.

What about Christmas/New Years? Usually that's 10 days. Counting weekends.

What about spring break? That's usually 11 days. Counting weekends.

What about Martin Luther King, Presidents Day, and all the other little holidays. You can tack on another week.

If you were to add the days I mentioned and summer break you would find that teachers have nearly 3 months off. It's not that bad.

 

[Linflas]

Don't bother. It's almost impossible for new teachers to get their foot in the door. It's a struggle for many of the younger ones that are already there just to hold on to their job. Cutbacks will increasingly become a bigger and bigger part of our school's future and the geezers have seniority. That's usually all that matters when giving people the boot, regardless of such factors like passion or quality.

Nonsense. Virginia even has a career switch program to assist in fast tracking college graduates working in other professions to make the switch to teaching and getting a teaching certificate.

 

[Linflas]

It's a saturated market if you're only interested in teaching in schools in nice neighborhoods. My wife recently applied to 5 schools in the Tampa area and was offered the position at every school.

She even had other schools calling to ask if she was still looking from other districts down there.

Just need to be willing to teach low income kids and you will find a job. Just be ready to have your heart broken because their parents are utter pieces of shit.

In addition to the parents you have almost 0 support from the administration and school districts. They will throw a teacher under the bus in a heartbeat the moment a parent accuses them of anything. With the Feds now deeply involved teaching has turned into nothing more than a numbers game in a chase for Federal largesse using endless standardized testing to generate numbers that meet the goals of the various Federal programs.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with anyone who says EE is mostly about baby sitting. You could choose to teach that way I suppose. Many do not.

 

[cbrunny]

So, I've decided that after working ridiculous amounts of overtime in the summer months(and wasting away the summers) with my current career path, I'm thinking about heading back to school for a degree in Elementary Education. What am I missing? I wouldn't be doing it strictly for the summers off, I'm just a "Thirty Something" with a need for a change. Pros and Cons please.

Well, if you live in Ontario, you are missing a way over-powered, selfish, militant union that regularly holds both students and the students' families hostage in exchange for egregious sums of money (Teachers in Ontario make over $100k). You're also missing the company of tens of thousands of young people just graduating from these programs who think they'll be the best teachers ever, who also feeling very entitled to not only a full time permanent job right out the gate, but also over $100k per year with extreme amounts of job security and armor shielding them from even the slightest amount of criticism.

I completed a degree in Education thinking that I wanted to be a teacher about 6 years ago. I spent time in five different classrooms over four years during practicums and socializing with others in my position, and it made me sick. The union and the entitlement are the reasons I can't exist in that world. I have a lot of respect for great teachers individually, but there are too many bullet proof overpaid shitty teachers with too much control and power for me to have respect for that profession generally.

 

[Arcadio]

Become a tutor instead and run your own business. That's what I did, although it took years to build a clientele. Demand for tutors is through the roof (at least in NYC). I still tutor students during the summer, but at least I get to choose the schedule.

 

[BikeJunkie]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with anyone who says EE is mostly about baby sitting. You could choose to teach that way I suppose. Many do not.

Sorry, it's babysitting. I've heard the shiniest, sparkliest versions of elementary ed from my brother in law and my sister in law, and no matter what coat of paint you slap on it, it's still glorified babysitting. Many of them will even cop to that. It's structured babysitting with an educational spin, but your primary function is to just keep them alive between the hours of 9 and 3.

I'm not saying it's easy, I'm just saying the notion that it's harder than secondary ed is laughable.

It takes a special person to be a teacher, and someone who makes a good secondary ed teacher may not (probably won't) make a good elementary ed teacher. But the thing is, to be a good elementary ed teacher, you really just need to be able to form and maintain positive connections with kids. That's important, and it's certainly not something everyone is capable of, but it's not even remotely as demanding as having 4 - 5 math classes to plan for, teach, grade, and perform "parent maintenance."

Then there's the qualifications for each. The curriculum for becoming an elementary ed teacher isn't all that different than actually being a fucking third grader. I'm dead serious... you want to be an elementary ed teacher? Hunker down for a few basic psych classes and a lot of time with safety scissors and glue.

Secondary ed, on the other hand, generally demands a degree in the actual subject you're teaching, or at the very least, a curriculum that is heavily focused on that area. The barriers to entry for secondary ed teachers are higher and more stringent than they are for elementary ed teachers. It's just how it is.

Elementary ed is saturated with with teachers who went down that road because they didn't have any better ideas. If elementary ed had any real barriers to entry, that wouldn't be the case.

Secondary STEM subjects, on the other hand, at least have some semblance of self-regulation. No one gets halfway through a textiles degree and says "you know what, this isn't working out - fuck it, I'll teach Chemistry." By the way, this example is taken from a bimbo I dated in school: she was a textiles major and damn near failed Trig. She washed out of textiles (YEP! Saw it with my own eyes) and ended up teaching elementary ed (and fuck it all if my son AND daughter didn't end up with her as their 2nd grade teacher 10 years later). She's now a principal.

Yeah, that shit really happened, and just goes to show how much of a joke our public school system is.

 

[Wuzup101]

Well, if you live in Ontario, you are missing a way over-powered, selfish, militant union that regularly holds both students and the students' families hostage in exchange for egregious sums of money (Teachers in Ontario make over $100k). You're also missing the company of tens of thousands of young people just graduating from these programs who think they'll be the best teachers ever, who also feeling very entitled to not only a full time permanent job right out the gate, but also over $100k per year with extreme amounts of job security and armor shielding them from even the slightest amount of criticism.

I completed a degree in Education thinking that I wanted to be a teacher about 6 years ago. I spent time in five different classrooms over four years during practicums and socializing with others in my position, and it made me sick. The union and the entitlement are the reasons I can't exist in that world. I have a lot of respect for great teachers individually, but there are too many bullet proof overpaid shitty teachers with too much control and power for me to have respect for that profession generally.

There are teachers in my local area that make 100k/year too (for HS teachers). That's not the starting salary in those areas, but what you can reach over time (this is public school). This isn't a super high cost of living area either, and it wouldn't even qualify as "urban" in most areas.

Not sure what the situation is like in Canada, or what the starting salaries are like, but do you think there is something wrong with a teacher (or any person) who makes 100k/year after 15-20 years? Some people make that out of college (a very small minority). Many more in the private sector make that pretty quickly out of college (<5 years).

 

[cbrunny]

There are teachers in my local area that make 100k/year too (for HS teachers). That's not the starting salary in those areas, but what you can reach over time (this is public school). This isn't a super high cost of living area either, and it wouldn't even qualify as "urban" in most areas.

Not sure what the situation is like in Canada, or what the starting salaries are like, but do you think there is something wrong with a teacher (or any person) who makes 100k/year after 15-20 years? Some people make that out of college (a very small minority). Many more in the private sector make that pretty quickly out of college (<5 years).

No, not at all. If you EARN your 100k, you are of course entitled to it.

In Ontario, teachers get 100k for showing up. It takes 11 years to climb the grid to get to the 100k point from the time you start your full-time contract. Starting is ~45k. This is also not including the cost-of-living increase that teachers receive on top of their yearly raises.

I have a major issue with the idea that you get more money just because you're there for another year. You should get more money because you earn more money - because you perform better. I know there is an argument that teachers get better with more experience and of course that is true for the great teachers. However, once you get a full-time teaching job in Ontario, you are bulletproof. You cannot be fired unless you diddle a kid. Bad teachers "show up" and in 11 years make 100k, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I have heard teachers openly discuss how they tried so hard to be a great teacher when they were on their first short-term contracts (covering maternity leave, etc) because they wanted the full-time permanent teaching jobs. As soon as they get the full-time jobs, they slack. This is common. This is openly discussed in teachers lounges. It disgusts me.

 

[BikeJunkie]

do you think there is something wrong with a teacher (or any person) who makes 100k/year after 15-20 years? Some people make that out of college (a very small minority). Many more in the private sector make that pretty quickly out of college (<5 years).

Yes, there is something wrong with teachers making 100k/year. The reasons are many, but to list a few:

- The teaching market is incredibly saturated; there's no reason to pay teachers 100k. Supply outweighs demand so much it's comical.

- Remember, than's 100k for ~ 9 months of work (which has about 4 weeks of built-in vacation time). Extrapolating that out, it's 150k annually. That's ridiculous.

- Benefits vary state to state, but here in Ohio, they're amazing when compared to private sector jobs. Do teachers really need 100k + killer health insurance + 2/3 pension. And if you're paying 100k, that pension is 66k/year post retirement. Also ridiculous.

- If a janitor works 15 - 20 years, should he get 100k, too? I'm not saying teachers == janitors, but assigning an arbitrarily long period of time does not justify an outrageous salary. A janitor that's worked for 50 years still is only marginally more effective than one that's worked one. Your average teacher's effectiveness over the course of their career is not unlike a bell curve: they're shitty at first while they learn the ropes, then they hit their stride, then they hit complacency, then they hit whydoistillhavetofuckingdothis. If I got to pick my kids teachers every year, I'd start by looking at the ones who've been at it for about 5 years. That's long enough to have some experience under their belts, but not so long that their excitement and ambition has been sapped from them.

 

[BikeJunkie]

I have heard teachers openly discuss how they tried so hard to be a great teacher when they were on their first short-term contracts (covering maternity leave, etc) because they wanted the full-time permanent teaching jobs. As soon as they get the full-time jobs, they slack. This is common. This is openly discussed in teachers lounges. It disgusts me.

Yep. I hear about this all the time from my teacher friends/family members. Teaching for a lot of people is just a lifelong vacation that you're paid for, and behind closed doors, they brag about it to each other. In front of the camera, they bawl about how they're overworked/underpaid.

 

[Sonikku]

It's an over saturated market.

lol, over saturated. That will happen when you slash budgets, lay off teachers and force those that remain to make do with less and deal with 30+ shoe horned in kids into their class rooms. But that's ok, I'm sure they can just get another job...

 

[Wuzup101]

Yes, there is something wrong with teachers making 100k/year. The reasons are many, but to list a few:

- The teaching market is incredibly saturated; there's no reason to pay teachers 100k. Supply outweighs demand so much it's comical.

That's a great way to keep the bad ones there and allow the good ones to move to the private sector or seek other jobs. It's also a great way to make sure that no one who goes to school will want to become a teacher when they can make twice as much elsewhere. You reduce the total supply of teachers, but you reduce them all from the "good" end of the scale.

- Remember, than's 100k for ~ 9 months of work (which has about 4 weeks of built-in vacation time). Extrapolating that out, it's 150k annually. That's ridiculous.

It's 100k for the year with a great amount of vacation that you can't choose when you use. While EE is a bit different, it's ridiculous the amount of shit that I've seen teachers bring home (both my mother and several of my friends who are HS math / science teachers). It's like working a part time job after you come home (again only applies to some teachers)

- Benefits vary state to state, but here in Ohio, they're amazing when compared to private sector jobs. Do teachers really need 100k + killer health insurance + 2/3 pension. And if you're paying 100k, that pension is 66k/year post retirement. Also ridiculous.

Health insurance is about the same as being in a good private sector job (at least in my industry). Pension is obviously a great added bonus.

- If a janitor works 15 - 20 years, should he get 100k, too? I'm not saying teachers == janitors, but assigning an arbitrarily long period of time does not justify an outrageous salary. A janitor that's worked for 50 years still is only marginally more effective than one that's worked one. Your average teacher's effectiveness over the course of their career is not unlike a bell curve: they're shitty at first while they learn the ropes, then they hit their stride, then they hit complacency, then they hit whydoistillhavetofuckingdothis. If I got to pick my kids teachers every year, I'd start by looking at the ones who've been at it for about 5 years. That's long enough to have some experience under their belts, but not so long that their excitement and ambition has been sapped from them.

While I agree that pay shouldn't be solely based on experience, it's a very awkward profession to rate based on performance (so many variables / students). I could definitely see them integrating performance into the pay rate. Maybe different levels of "teacher" that were more like a promotion would be better (but then you'd have a lot of people with otherwise useless teaching degrees that had no mobility).

Also just to note, I did have my teachers hand selected for me going through school (went to the same school my mother taught at). I can't think of a single instance where my primary teacher for a "real" subject wasn't someone with 15+ years of experience. I didn't have the "5 year vet" teacher EVER. That is not to say that all senior teachers are good; however, there is a strong correlation with the best teachers being senior.

In regards to the janitor comment, I have no clue what they make. I assume that one who stayed with a company for 15-20 years might make significantly more than one who just started out. Maybe like double - I don't know? How about doctors. Do doctors with like 15-20 years of experience make more than new doctors? How about lawyers, or engineers, or scientists?

Replies in Bold

 

[schmuckley]

Those who can't do..teach.

 

[DigDog]

I'd teach in Detroit; if offered a 6 figure salary, the ability to hand pick kids in 6th grade, and the ability to keep those kids through their senior year. (with, of course, the ability to kick kids out of my program.)

i'd do anything for a six figure salary.

 

[BikeJunkie]

Replies in Bold

Replies in bold make it a royal PITA to reply back to... just an FYI

That's a great way to keep the bad ones there and allow the good ones to move to the private sector or seek other jobs. It's also a great way to make sure that no one who goes to school will want to become a teacher when they can make twice as much elsewhere. You reduce the total supply of teachers, but you reduce them all from the "good" end of the scale.

This is a great argument on paper or in an Econ 101 class that's scraping the surface of supply and demand, but in the real world - especially in the education market - it's not remotely that simple. First and foremost, the teaching profession already fails to attract the "good ones" and succeeds remarkably as a magnet for the "bad ones." Why? Because to hit that 100k salary, you have to stick it out for quite some time. Entry level pay is $25k - $35k (depending on the system), and increments at an approximate rate of 3% annually.

If you truly want to attract the "good" ones, we need to be having a very different conversation, e.g. "should teachers make $100k out of the gate?" That, of course, requires an answer to the awkward question of "do we want really smart people teaching because they can make six figures with three summers off, or do we want them teaching out of a sense of public service?"

Like I said, not so simple...

It's 100k for the year with a great amount of vacation that you can't choose when you use.

Except you're referring to the built-in 4 weeks I mentioned, while deliberately neglecting the 3 months off in the summer. If I give an employee 4 months of vacation per year with only moderate flexibility with which to use it, I sure don't want to hear any QQ'ing about it. They're free to move into the private sector and take their 2 - 3 weeks of vacation, which has about the same amount of flexibility, only the restrictions aren't in writing .

While EE is a bit different, it's ridiculous the amount of shit that I've seen teachers bring home (both my mother and several of my friends who are HS math / science teachers). It's like working a part time job after you come home (again only applies to some teachers)

Which I addressed earlier. No doubt secondary ed is tougher than elementary ed. I have two elementary ed teachers (sibling in laws) and one secondary ed teacher (my wife) in the family. I totally get the nuances of each.

But here's the thing, I work ~ 60 hour weeks, too. On good weeks it's 50, on bad weeks it hovers at 70. The only difference is, I don't get a 3 month rest/reset period. This is true for most "achievers" in the private sector: we work the same shitty hours that high school STEM teachers work, just without most of the benefits. That's why my tolerance for teacher-bitching is so low.

Health insurance is about the same as being in a good private sector job (at least in my industry). Pension is obviously a great added bonus.

Hardly. 10 years ago, yeah, but so many companies are moving to HSA's, that there's a HUGE disparity between private sector insurance and public sector insurance. It's not even remotely comparable, and as companies move toward throwing people at Obamacare, that disparity will only increase.

While I agree that pay shouldn't be solely based on experience, it's a very awkward profession to rate based on performance (so many variables / students). I could definitely see them integrating performance into the pay rate. Maybe different levels of "teacher" that were more like a promotion would be better (but then you'd have a lot of people with otherwise useless teaching degrees that had no mobility).

This is another "simple on paper, complex in real life" topic. Performance-based compensation for teachers is obviously ideal. No one would love to see the waste disposed of more than I would, but rating teachers off of test scores brings with it all the pitfalls of insufficient sample sizes, kids having a bad/good day, etc. There are so many unintended consequences to performance-based compensation that you have to wonder if you're better off just dealing with the shit teachers so you don't inadvertently send the good ones packing.

Ideally, I'd like to see more power given to principals, and then employ heaver oversight of those principals (to deal with the friends/family problems we have right now).

That is not to say that all senior teachers are good; however, there is a strong correlation with the best teachers being senior.

Yes and no. On one hand, senior teachers have "survived" and stood up to the test of dealing with handfuls of little shits over the years. They're wise, they've seen it all, and they've learned to cope. But you also get a lot of hangers-on who are content to just wait it out while the natives feed on one another.

Do doctors with like 15-20 years of experience make more than new doctors? How about lawyers, or engineers, or scientists?

Yes, but all of those (with the exception of engineers and scientists) rely on a steady stream of referral-based clientele, which is acquired naturally/organically as one's career progresses. It's hardly analogous to teaching.