Things I know are true ...

[Mrburns2007]

1. If the President was a Democrat, they'd be supporting the war effort and Republicans would be talking "quagmire" and vietnam.

2. The WMD threat was overstated but most "smart" people knew that before the war.

3. Saddam is Evil.

4. We should have killed Saddam in 1990.

5. 12 years of sanctions was a really bad idea.

6. The media is stupid, they want the war over in 5 minutes and Iraq to be a thriving metroplis in 10 minutes.

7. Iraq will take 30 years to rebuild and even then.....

8. America is a right and France is wrong.

 

[AEB]

so right yet so concise

 

[Lucky]

8 simple rules for dating my teenage daughter.

 

[daniel1113]

You forgot #9: Ronald Reagan was the greatest president of the 20th century.

Other then that, not a bad list

 

[Gaard]

<<2. The WMD threat was overstated but most "smart" people knew that before the war.>>

Are you saying that you knew that our president was misleading us?

 

[AEB]

we are saying he knew the president was misinformed. please however keep inmind that illegal weapons were found(missles beyond legal range) and the UN resolution said immidiate strikesw ould take place agianst iraq if said weapons were found. just because the UN doesnt back up thier own resolutions doesnt mean america has to be seen as all talk and no show

 

[MonstaThrilla]

Originally posted by: AEB
we are saying he knew the president was misinformed. please however keep inmind that illegal weapons were found(missles beyond legal range) and the UN resolution said immidiate strikesw ould take place agianst iraq if said weapons were found. just because the UN doesnt back up thier own resolutions doesnt mean america has to be seen as all talk and no show

Do you believe the UN inspectors would have not been able to find these long range missiles if given the time they requested to finish their work?

Do you believe it was right for us to launch a full scale land invasion and subsequent occupation which has been described as a "guerrilla type war" by the commanding General, which has cost us hundreds of American soldiers' lives, in order to rid Saddam of these long range missiles?

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla

Originally posted by: AEB
we are saying he knew the president was misinformed. please however keep inmind that illegal weapons were found(missles beyond legal range) and the UN resolution said immidiate strikesw ould take place agianst iraq if said weapons were found. just because the UN doesnt back up thier own resolutions doesnt mean america has to be seen as all talk and no show

Do you believe the UN inspectors would have not been able to find these long range missiles if given the time they requested to finish their work?

I know a guy who was a UN inspector in Iraq for awhile. Not during the recent hunt, but in the past. He said the Iraqi government never let them near anything military instalations or anything, and delayed inspections of buildings, had all the scientists repeating the same party line. He said it was all pretty much a joke and they knew they were hiding things, to which he believed they would have found, had they actually had the opportunity to freely look.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: AEB
we are saying he knew the president was misinformed. please however keep inmind that illegal weapons were found(missles beyond legal range) and the UN resolution said immidiate strikesw ould take place agianst iraq if said weapons were found. just because the UN doesnt back up thier own resolutions doesnt mean america has to be seen as all talk and no show

we all know how Israel abides by all UN resolutions.

This list was stupid. there's a difference between facts and things you'd want to believe to be true. starting w/ the first point...you immediately make an assumption. It all goes downhill from there.

#2 translates like this. I knew bush lied about the weapons...but i'll fondle his balls anyway.

#3 so is bush, and most politicians. heck, even a POPE gets corrupted when given absolute power.

#4 whatever floats your boat. maybe if you provide a reason, otherwise you seem like a jackass and are essentially evil yourself.

#5 can you think of something more feasible rather than killing a leader?

#6 the media isn't stupid. The media thrives off of your stupidity.

#7 talking out of your a$$ again? it must be a very big one. i don't see why we even took it upon ourselves to destroy then rebuild iraq. What's next, the Congo? Are we gonna invest all our assets on rebuilding other nations? Or is that the excuse you use so you can still feel tingly inside when you sleep at nights. I guess calling it "rebuilding of nations" sounds better than calling it what it is...imperialism.

#8 America is right about what? There weren't any real WMD found. Saddam wasn't connected to alqueda. ooo wrong again. The people are never gonna be liberated. Sh!t, that's three. America lost, france wins. who's wrong now?



Lucky, nice to know you pimp out your daughter based on the dude's political views.

edit: btw i think you only made the last point so you can get some approval from your fellow patriotic morons who dismiss the legitimacy of any opinion which opposes the idea that America is always right.

 

[Mrburns2007]

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: AEB
we are saying he knew the president was misinformed. please however keep inmind that illegal weapons were found(missles beyond legal range) and the UN resolution said immidiate strikesw ould take place agianst iraq if said weapons were found. just because the UN doesnt back up thier own resolutions doesnt mean america has to be seen as all talk and no show

we all know how Israel abides by all UN resolutions.

This list was stupid. there's a difference between facts and things you'd want to believe to be true. starting w/ the first point...you immediately make an assumption. It all goes downhill from there.

#2 translates like this. I knew bush lied about the weapons...but i'll fondle his balls anyway.

More like, we have these really cool weapons that we want to use on Saddam..wink wink.

#3 so is bush, and most politicians. heck, even a POPE gets corrupted when given absolute power.

yeah cause Bush and the Pope are feeding people down grinders and boiling people in acid

#4 whatever floats your boat. maybe if you provide a reason, otherwise you seem like a jackass and are essentially evil yourself.

#5 can you think of something more feasible rather than killing a leader?

#6 the media isn't stupid. The media thrives off of your stupidity.

the media has no patience, if things don't occur right away they start talking about failure.

#7 talking out of your a$$ again? it must be a very big one. i don't see why we even took it upon ourselves to destroy then rebuild iraq. What's next, the Congo? Are we gonna invest all our assets on rebuilding other nations? Or is that the excuse you use so you can still feel tingly inside when you sleep at nights. I guess calling it "rebuilding of nations" sounds better than calling it what it is...imperialism.

Yeah cause we run France, Germany and Japan still

...btw the country was destroyed by 30 years of Saddam and the baath party which never repaired anything or built anything new accept palaces for Saddam.

#8 America is right about what? There weren't any real WMD found. Saddam wasn't connected to alqueda. ooo wrong again. The people are never gonna be liberated. Sh!t, that's three. America lost, france wins. who's wrong now?

The french were making sweet money from Saddam and that was there real motivation to say no to war. America has provided strong leadership and ousting Saddam could provide the chance at a real Iraqi democracy. It will take 20 to 30 years to see real progress though.



Lucky, nice to know you pimp out your daughter based on the dude's political views.

edit: btw i think you only made the last point so you can get some approval from your fellow patriotic morons who dismiss the legitimacy of any opinion which opposes the idea that America is always right.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: Mrburns2007

Originally posted by: Pers

#2 translates like this. I knew bush lied about the weapons...but i'll fondle his balls anyway.

More like, we have these really cool weapons that we want to use on Saddam..wink wink.

what? i don't even get what you mean. and stop winking at me. thanks





#3 so is bush, and most politicians. heck, even a POPE gets corrupted when given absolute power.

yeah cause Bush and the Pope are feeding people down grinders and boiling people in acid

read about the holy roman empire or something. i think lying about a war to fulfill some bullshit agenda, and ultimately killing thousands of innocent people is an evil act.






#6 the media isn't stupid. The media thrives off of your stupidity.

the media has no patience, if things don't occur right away they start talking about failure.

the media seems to be very favorable towards bush, actually. THE MAN LIED TO US. HIS LIES COST LIVES. LIVES ARE IRREPLACEABLE. do they even acknowledge this? hardly. They emphasize a blowjob more than have Bush's lies.







#7 talking out of your a$$ again? it must be a very big one. i don't see why we even took it upon ourselves to destroy then rebuild iraq. What's next, the Congo? Are we gonna invest all our assets on rebuilding other nations? Or is that the excuse you use so you can still feel tingly inside when you sleep at nights. I guess calling it "rebuilding of nations" sounds better than calling it what it is...imperialism.

Yeah cause we run France, Germany and Japan still

...btw the country was destroyed by 30 years of Saddam and the baath party which never repaired anything or built anything new accept palaces for Saddam.

wtf? when did we ever run France, Germany, or Japan? dude...seriously why do you make yourself so vulnerable. again...w/ the rest of the crap you wrote...it seems like you're talking out of your a$$. You probably didn't take the time to research anything about the baath party or saddam. You're taking the media's word for it. Yet you call the media stupid. THE IRONY!! HAH





#8 America is right about what? There weren't any real WMD found. Saddam wasn't connected to alqueda. ooo wrong again. The people are never gonna be liberated. Sh!t, that's three. America lost, france wins. who's wrong now?

The french were making sweet money from Saddam and that was there real motivation to say no to war. America has provided strong leadership and ousting Saddam could provide the chance at a real Iraqi democracy. It will take 20 to 30 years to see real progress though.


no sh!t. Saddam preferred to work w/ the french rather than us. Is that a problem? So now we see the real motives of the war. So it wasn't about liberalizing iraqis. It was about getting saddam to trade his oil for dollars instead of euros. interesting. Again...more numbers coming straight out of the booty.

 

[Mrburns2007]

what? i don't even get what you mean. and stop winking at me. thanks

It means Bush and company wanted to oust Saddam from power and they also had some new high tech weaponary they would get to try out.

the media seems to be very favorable towards bush, actually. THE MAN LIED TO US. HIS LIES COST LIVES. LIVES ARE IRREPLACEABLE. do they even acknowledge this? hardly. They emphasize a blowjob more than have Bush's lies.

As President he made the decision to go to war, the congress gave him there approval. Yes people die in war but sometimes war is neccessary so future generations can have better lives. How many people died so we could have freedom ?

wtf? when did we ever run France, Germany, or Japan? dude...seriously why do you make yourself so vulnerable. again...w/ the rest of the crap you wrote...it seems like you're talking out of your a$$. You probably didn't take the time to research anything about the baath party or saddam. You're taking the media's word for it. Yet you call the media stupid. THE IRONY!! HAH

We did help rebuild europe and Japan, we occupied Japan for many years and helped write there constitution but we didn't seize there land like a imperial power.

The only channel worth anything is PBS and maybe the BBC. PBS did a whole peice on how the baath party ran Iraq into the ground. The buildings are all decaying and roads were never built properly. The electrical grid was a mess and sewers were never built that should have been.

 

[Red Dawn]

Another thing that is true is that if Bush wouldn't have misled the American Public regarding Iraq's imminent threat to the US because of vast stockpiles of WMDs. a burgeoning Nuclear Weapons Program and their direct ties to Al Qaeda we wouldn't be in Iraq right now becausae he wouldn't of had the support he needed from the American Public to execute the Neo Con's grand Adventure, one that they had already conceived before the 2000 Election.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Another thing that is true is that if Bush wouldn't have misled the American Public regarding Iraq's imminent threat to the US because of vast stockpiles of WMDs. a burgeoning Nuclear Weapons Program and their direct ties to Al Qaeda we wouldn't be in Iraq right now becausae he wouldn't of had the support he needed from the American Public to execute the Neo Con's grand Adventure, one that they had already conceived before the 2000 Election.

That is the real truth.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla

Originally posted by: AEB
we are saying he knew the president was misinformed. please however keep inmind that illegal weapons were found(missles beyond legal range) and the UN resolution said immidiate strikesw ould take place agianst iraq if said weapons were found. just because the UN doesnt back up thier own resolutions doesnt mean america has to be seen as all talk and no show

Do you believe the UN inspectors would have not been able to find these long range missiles if given the time they requested to finish their work?

Do you believe it was right for us to launch a full scale land invasion and subsequent occupation which has been described as a "guerrilla type war" by the commanding General, which has cost us hundreds of American soldiers' lives, in order to rid Saddam of these long range missiles?

The truth is those long range missles only went a few miles beyond the U.N. limit and only with no payload and guidance system.

 

[CaptnKirk]

About the 'Alledged' missles that could fly beyond their allowed range:

1) The only reason that they could fly beyond the allowed range is that they were under weight.
The lighter mass would 'technically' extend their flight trajectory.

2) The reason that they were light was that they did not have their guidance avionics
equipment installed, so in order to be launched, that mechenism would have to be
put in prior to launch in order to vector it in any direction or towards any target.

3) Install the guidance system into the missle, and it returns to it's 'Allowed' range -
along with the ability to hit a target within that CEP.

4) The hype was another false speculation that was taken outside the reality of the threat.

5) The extended range that they would have picked up was between 5 to 9 nautical miles,
depending on wind conditions during initial boost phase - the first 20 seconds of flight,
and the local ground wind velocity in the last 10 seconds of flight.
Winds aloft would have more effects to drive them off course than they would have benifitted
from if they would have been able to even fly without a guidance system.

 

[UnemployedMay2001]

Originally posted by: AEB
we are saying he knew the president was misinformed. please however keep inmind that illegal weapons were found(missles beyond legal range) and the UN resolution said immidiate strikesw ould take place agianst iraq if said weapons were found. just because the UN doesnt back up thier own resolutions doesnt mean america has to be seen as all talk and no show

Misinformed or not, if most "smart" people knew it was bull$shit, then I am happy that some of you are finally conceeding the fact that this is by far, the least intellegent person to ever hold this esteemed position. Kudos.

 

[Gaard]

So, according to AEB and Mrburns2007, the fact that 'smart' people knew Bush was misinformed combined with the fact that Bush didn't know he was misinformed means that Bush isn't smart? Isn't there a thread complaining about people calling Bush stupid?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Gaard
So, according to AEB and Mrburns2007, the fact that 'smart' people knew Bush was misinformed combined with the fact that Bush didn't know he was misinformed means that Bush isn't smart? Isn't there a thread complaining about people calling Bush stupid?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
1. If the President was a Democrat, they'd be supporting the war effort and Republicans would be talking "quagmire" and vietnam.

2. The WMD threat was overstated but most "smart" people knew that before the war.

3. Saddam is Evil.

4. We should have killed Saddam in 1990.

5. 12 years of sanctions was a really bad idea.

6. The media is stupid, they want the war over in 5 minutes and Iraq to be a thriving metroplis in 10 minutes.

7. Iraq will take 30 years to rebuild and even then.....

8. America is a right and France is wrong.

I agree w/ all points.

 

[Witling]

Mr. Burns. I'd like to test proposition number 8, which you "know" to be true. How can we test whether France or the U.S knew better? Right now, based on the fact that we're up to our A$$ in alligators and can't get any help, there weren't any WMD, and Sadaam didn't have any significant ties with Al Queda, it looks like the score is France 1, U.S. 0. I find that you right wing types have short attention spans and like to drift off on tangents. So here's the question again,

"How can we test whether France or the U.S knew better?" For bonus points, you can tell us how long it will take to ascertain the outcome of the test you propose.

After all, there must be some criteria for stating that France is wrong and the U.S. -- almost alone in the world except for the ventriliquist's dummy, is right.

 

[VioletAura]

3. Saddam is Evil.

Saddam's enemies were evil, not him. He did what was necessary to keep Iraq together. Those people were not so innocent and got what they deserved. The US is now finding that out the hard way.

4. We should have killed Saddam in 1990.

Any follow up plan, who should replace him or anything? Of course not, just kill him, yeah that would have worked.

We should have let Saddam annex Kuwait and there would be less problems in the world today.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: VioletAura

3. Saddam is Evil.

Saddam's enemies were evil, not him. He did what was necessary to keep Iraq together. Those people were not so innocent and got what they deserved. The US is now finding that out the hard way.

4. We should have killed Saddam in 1990.

Any follow up plan, who should replace him or anything? Of course not, just kill him, yeah that would have worked.

We should have let Saddam annex Kuwait and there would be less problems in the world today.

Are you actually serious on both points?

CkG

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: VioletAura

3. Saddam is Evil.

Saddam's enemies were evil, not him. He did what was necessary to keep Iraq together. Those people were not so innocent and got what they deserved. The US is now finding that out the hard way.

Saddam wasn't evil? Sheesh, I never met the man personally, but I'm fairly confident he was evil.

 

[rjain]

According to Saddam's religious beliefs, I doubt he was evil. You have to qualify "evil" with whose religion you are talking about.