Things are good, be merry ;)

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
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http://politi.co/1zzbxd6

Good news! The U.S. economy grew at a rollicking 5 percent rate in the third quarter. Oh, and it added 320,000 jobs in November, the best of its unprecedented 57 straight months of private-sector employment growth. Just in time for Christmas, the Dow just hit an all-time high and the uninsured rate is approaching an all-time low. Consumer confidence is soaring, inflation is low, gas prices are plunging, and the budget deficit is shrinking. You no longer hear much about the Ebola crisis that dominated the headlines in the fall, much less the border crisis that dominated the headlines over the summer. As Fox News host Andrea Tantaros proclaimed earlier this month: "The United States is awesome! We are awesome!"

OK, she was talking about the Senate torture report, not the state of the union, but things in the U.S. do look rather awesome. Mitt Romney promised to bring unemployment down to 6 percent in his first term; it's already down to 5.8 percent, half the struggling eurozone's rate. Newt Gingrich promised $2.50 gas; it's down to $2.38. Crime, abortion, teen pregnancy and oil imports are also way down, while renewable power is way up and the American auto industry is booming again. You don't have to give credit to President Barack Obama for "America's resurgence," as he has started calling it, but there's overwhelming evidence the resurgence is real. The Chicken Littles who predicted a double-dip recession, runaway interest rates, Zimbabwe-style inflation, a Greece-style debt crisis, skyrocketing energy prices, health insurance "death spirals" and other horrors have been reliably wrong.

Come to think of it, the 62 percent of Americans who described the economy as "poor" in a CNN poll a week before the Republican landslide in the midterm elections were also wrong. I guess that sounds elitist. Second-guessing the wisdom of the public may be the last bastion of political correctness; if ordinary people don't feel good about the economy, then the recovery isn't supposed to be real. But aren't the 11 million Americans who have landed new jobs since 2010 and the 10 million Americans who have gotten health insurance since 2013 ordinary Americans? It's true that wage growth has remained slow, but the overall economic trends don't jibe with the public's lousy mood. And the public definitely does get stuff wrong. A Bloomberg poll this month found that 73 percent of Americans think the deficit is getting bigger, while 21 percent think it's getting smaller and 6 percent aren't sure. In fact, the deficit has dwindled from about $1.2 trillion in 2009 to less than $500 billion in 2014. My favorite part is the mere 6 percent who admitted ignorance; 73 percent are definitely sure the shrinking deficit is actually growing.

The point isn't that the midterm election's discontent was illegitimate. The point is that Americans should cheer up! Six years ago, the economy was contracting at an 8 percent annual rate and shedding 800,000 jobs a month. Those were Great Depression-type numbers. The government was pouring billions of dollars into busted banks, and experts like MIT's Simon Johnson were predicting that the bailouts would cost taxpayers as much as $2 trillion. In reality, the bailouts not only quelled the worst financial panic since the Depression, they made money for taxpayers. Nevertheless, last week, after the government sold its stake in Ally Bank, its last major holding in a financial institution, Johnson complained to The New York Times about the "unfortunate and inappropriate message" being sent by people pointing out the bailouts were actually profitable. In this holiday season, can't we be a little bit happy we didn't have to waste the $2 trillion he thought we were going to waste?

This bah-humbug brand of moral superiority has flourished since the crisis: How dare you celebrate this or that piece of economic data when so many Americans are still hurting? It's awkward to argue with that view, since many Americans are indeed still hurting. But the economic data keep showing that fewer Americans are hurting every month. No one is satisfied with 5.8 percent unemployment, but it's way better than the 10 percent we had in 2010 or the 11 percent Europe has today. Declining child poverty and household debt and personal bankruptcies are also worth celebrating. Better is better than worse. Whether or not you think Obamacare had anything to do with the slowdown in medical cost growth, it's a good thing that Medicare's finances have improved dramatically, extending the solvency of its trust fund by an estimated 13 years. It's a good thing that U.S. wind power has tripled and solar power has increased tenfold in five years. And while it's true that the meteoric rise of the stock market since 2009 has produced windfalls for Wall Street, it has also replenished state pension funds and 401(k) retirement plans and labor union coffers. It definitely beats the alternative.

Let's face it: The press has a problem reporting good news. Two Americans died of Ebola and cable TV flipped out; now we're Ebola-free and no one seems to care. The same thing happened with the flood of migrant children across the Mexican border, which was a horrific crisis until it suddenly wasn't. Nobody's going to win a Pulitzer Prize for recognizing that we're smoking less, driving less, wasting less electricity and committing less crime. Police are killing fewer civilians, and fewer police are getting killed, but understandably, after the tragedies in Ferguson and Brooklyn, nobody's thinking about that these days. The media keep us in a perpetual state of panic about spectacular threats to our safety -- Ebola, sharks, terrorism -- but we're much likelier to die in a car accident. Although, it ought to be said, much less likely than we used to be; highway fatalities are down 25 percent in a decade.

The other problem in acknowledging good news, not just for the press but for the public, is that it has come to feel partisan, like an endorsement of whoever occupies the White House. Republican leaders have exacerbated this problem by describing everything Obama has done -- his 2009 stimulus package, his 2010 Wall Street reforms, his 2013 tax hikes on high earners, his various anti-pollution regulations aimed at coal-fired power plants, and most of all Obamacare -- as "job-killing" catastrophes that would obliterate the economy. It's hard to point out that the economy is humming along nicely without making those doom-and-gloom predictions sound ill-advised and over-the-top. Because they were. Liberals who predicted disaster when Obama refused to nationalize the banking system during the financial crisis and when Republicans insisted on the harsh budget cuts in the 2013 "sequester" were wrong, too. Disaster hasn't happened.

As ideologically inconvenient as that may be for chronic complainers on the left and right -- and for pundit types invested in their bad-year-for-Obama narrative -- it's wonderful for the country. You don't have to endorse Obama's economic philosophy to realize that it hasn't wreaked short-term havoc, just as you don't have to endorse the Obama or George W. Bush anti-terror philosophies to acknowledge that America hasn't endured a rash of terror attacks since 2001. Last week, polls finally found a majority of Americans recognizing that the economy is improving, which is to say a majority of Americans are recognizing reality. It's probably time for politicians to discover a new Ebola to scream about.

There is no shortage of candidates in this less-than-perfect union. The U.S. is still plagued by inadequate public schools, crumbling infrastructure, soaring college tuition costs, stark inequality. Many Americans want accountability for reckless bankers, torturers and fatal choke-holders. Washington is still almost as dysfunctional as everyone says it is. Congress this session really was the second least productive ever. And even though Obama is winding down the U.S. involvement in overseas wars, the world remains a scary place. There's still plenty to worry about.

Media has always focused on the negative, that's pretty standard fare. But knowing just how booming the economy has been this year in terms of 4-5% GDP and 250K/month jobs created in 2014 (literally the campaign promises of Romney in 2012), and considering all the aforementioned improvements in commodity prices and quality of life, I'd like to say Merry Christmas to all those out there feeling gloomier than maybe they should. Cheer up, compared to much of the rest of the world you've won the lottery if you were born almost anywhere in the U.S. ;)
 

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,860
2
0
Negative sells better than positive, generally.

Our "can do" attitude of generations past has been supplanted with a "why bother" attitude; bought about by the extreme political polarization of both the populace and the lawmakers while it's flames are fanned brightly by the media.

I'm not a "the buck stops here" person, neither the president or Congress is directly responsible for the bane or boon of the economy; it's the willingness and forward thinking of business, employees and consumers to participate in the growth.

While more needs to be done by those groups and our lawmakers, myself, close friends and associates are all better off than we were one, two or six years ago.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
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You know, somehow I was able to train my wife to believe money is always "tight" and you have to really plan and estimate all purchases. The end result? We always have a surplus emergency fund.

I'm OK with america thinking they are broke ;)
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
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Negative sells better than positive, generally.

Our "can do" attitude of generations past has been supplanted with a "why bother" attitude; bought about by the extreme political polarization of both the populace and the lawmakers while it's flames are fanned brightly by the media.

I'm not a "the buck stops here" person, neither the president or Congress is directly responsible for the bane or boon of the economy; it's the willingness and forward thinking of business, employees and consumers to participate in the growth.

While more needs to be done by those groups and our lawmakers, myself, close friends and associates are all better off than we were one, two or six years ago.
I agree with this and I admit to getting caught up in it too much during the recession. I since see the constant doom as more entertainment than prophecy. I am also doing much better than I was. When I look around my neighborhood I see precisely zero houses in foreclosure. I personally know nobody out of work who wants a job. They exist, and I stay in a tight circle of middle class but still.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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That is crazy until we realize that the population of the US increased by precisely twice that amount, and boomers are now entering retirement.
There is more to it all than is obvious at a quick glance. Most importantly, who is providing the information and probably more important is can the information be trusted?

I'm not sure that there is anyone that can be trusted to give truthful information anymore. The spin is always advantageous to someone.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Negative sells better than positive, generally.

Our "can do" attitude of generations past has been supplanted with a "why bother" attitude; bought about by the extreme political polarization of both the populace and the lawmakers while it's flames are fanned brightly by the media.

I'm not a "the buck stops here" person, neither the president or Congress is directly responsible for the bane or boon of the economy; it's the willingness and forward thinking of business, employees and consumers to participate in the growth.

While more needs to be done by those groups and our lawmakers, myself, close friends and associates are all better off than we were one, two or six years ago.

I'll certainly agree that the impact of presidents and Congress on economic growth is vastly overrated. That said, tax code overhauls and financial regs can have an outsized impact.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
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I'm not sure that there is anyone that can be trusted to give truthful information anymore.

The world is indeed a scary place when it changes rapidly in a direction older folks can't possibly fathom or comprehend. It's like explaining to Twitter to Grandpa Bob; he'll just never get it.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,387
465
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That is crazy until we realize that the population of the US increased by precisely twice that amount, and boomers are now entering retirement.

That would be an interesting observation if it weren't for the fact that people over 65 who are working at an all-time high, and the people aged 25-40 with a job are at an all-time low.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
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That would be an interesting observation if it weren't for the fact that people over 65 who are working at an all-time high, and the people aged 25-40 with a job are at an all-time low.

That's what happens when you spend decades shipping out solid middle class jobs with benefits and bust pensions at the same time (not to mention that the 401k that many older people were using took a giant hit in the nuts 2007-2010). People have no choice but to work longer....and do. And at the same time, if older people don't leave the work force to make room for the new guys, they won't get a job at any sort of historical rate either.

Reaping what we have sowed for decades......

As for the OP, numbers look good on the surface but to many, it's not moving them up the ladder in wages and benefits. I guess it's better than down.
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
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londojowo.hypermart.net
I volunteered to work 2nd shift on a local emergency job starting last Tuesday and will most likely work through next weekend (1/5). Due to the fact I'm salary exempt I get paid overtime so I will make $8,500 in overtime/holiday pay for these 3 weeks work. Sure makes for Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,569
3,762
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Over all there is good news but I'm not sure how much weight the deficit question actually holds. Sure the year over year loss has been reduced our overall debt is still increasing which I am thinking the confusion comes in

That would be an interesting observation if it weren't for the fact that people over 65 who are working at an all-time high

Is it? I have seen several reports to the contrary

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/05/02/the-biggest-retirement-myth-ever-told.aspx
 
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Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Over all there is good news but I'm not sure how much weight the deficit question actually holds. Sure the year over year loss has been reduced our overall debt is still increasing



Is it? I have seen several reports to the contrary

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/05/02/the-biggest-retirement-myth-ever-told.aspx

It's been increasing up until 2014 and leveled off (maybe somewhat down lately) but nowhere near an all time high.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/LNU01375379
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
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That's what happens when you spend decades shipping out solid middle class jobs with benefits and bust pensions at the same time (not to mention that the 401k that many older people were using took a giant hit in the nuts 2007-2010). People have no choice but to work longer....and do. And at the same time, if older people don't leave the work force to make room for the new guys, they won't get a job at any sort of historical rate either.

Reaping what we have sowed for decades......

As for the OP, numbers look good on the surface but to many, it's not moving them up the ladder in wages and benefits. I guess it's better than down.

Well you know where I stand on that one bud.

Has been sad watching the middle class decay for decades, at least things are stabilizing a bit.

Just one more GOP president twits will vote for yelling "Murica" and the whole country might go back to putting the middle class into chains permanently though.

Probably more or less has all ready happened I guess.

I don't want to even think what might have happened if Mitt had gotten elected, we'd probably have secret police walking around in magic underwear by now.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
Cats heard it too, they freaking.

Mister Colt King Cobra .357 came to live on my desktop awhile.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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Here is the equation for determining GDP. Anyone want to back out the .govs deficit spending and see how the numbers look then? I'm just not all that interested in looking up the numbers myself.

Y = C + I + G + (X − M)

GDP (Y) is the sum of consumption (C), investment (I), government spending (G) and net exports (X – M).
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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Over all there is good news but I'm not sure how much weight the deficit question actually holds. Sure the year over year loss has been reduced our overall debt is still increasing which I am thinking the confusion comes in

Since Government spending is one of a very few variables in determining GDP maybe it should hold rather substantial weight? Or you could use the equation I posted above and see exactly how much weight it has yourself, the numbers are all out there for you to find and the equation isn't that complicated.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,569
3,762
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Since Government spending is one of a very few variables in determining GDP maybe it should hold rather substantial weight? Or you could use the equation I posted above and see exactly how much weight it has yourself, the numbers are all out there for you to find and the equation isn't that complicated.

No not weight in terms of economic measures but weight in terms of saying the population is out of touch with particular economic indicators. That's why I referenced the question itself
 
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