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things about "the other guys" you don't understand?

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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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^ Indeed. I've always been of the opinion that to be truly logically consistent, conservatives should be against the death penalty, following this logic: if you start from the assumption that the govt is inefficient and does a lot (or everything) wrong, why would you ever trust such an organization to be in charge of deciding who lives and who dies?
I support the death penalty for many reasons, one of which is its cost. I never want to see it because the cheaper punishment method - a life is not something to remove just to save money.

Another reason is because there are many groups trying to prove a death row inmate innocent after conviction - but maybe one small group trying to prove life in prison inmates innocent after conviction. Those not on death row are forgotten about...no one cares about them after conviction. My best guess is that there are far more people who will die in prison but are innocent than were ever executed and were innocent. I cannot say dying in prison of old age is a better solution than dying quickly by execution...

Another reason is that we do not actually have a way to keep someone in jail for life...it just does not exist. A man can confess, show where the other 12 bodies are buried, provide the murder weapon, show the videos he made of himself committing the brutal murders...and that person can still end up pardoned. Likely? No, but they can end up walking the streets again...only one person in history who was ever executed was seen walking the streets again...

Ultimate crimes require ultimate punishments - to protect society.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Prison is not a deterrent either...

The biggest gain from the death penalty is the lack of repeat offenders. No one executed for a crime has ever gone out and committed another crime. We cannot say that about those placed in prison. In face:

The effect of incarceration on former prisoners has been a very common topic of discussion for many years. In most cases, it is believed that many prisoners will find themselves right back where they started, in jail. In the United States, 53% of arrested males and 39% of arrested females are re-incarcerated (2003).[6]

Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide. These are the lowest rates of re-arrest for the same category of crime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeat_offender

If we executed people for rape and murder, we could remove every one of those repeat offenses. Think bout the people who would have been raped or murdered, but were not due to their future attackers being executed instead of jailed and released, if we executed for said crimes.
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
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I support the death penalty for many reasons, one of which is its cost. I never want to see it because the cheaper punishment method - a life is not something to remove just to save money.

Another reason is because there are many groups trying to prove a death row inmate innocent after conviction - but maybe one small group trying to prove life in prison inmates innocent after conviction. Those not on death row are forgotten about...no one cares about them after conviction. My best guess is that there are far more people who will die in prison but are innocent than were ever executed and were innocent. I cannot say dying in prison of old age is a better solution than dying quickly by execution...

Another reason is that we do not actually have a way to keep someone in jail for life...it just does not exist. A man can confess, show where the other 12 bodies are buried, provide the murder weapon, show the videos he made of himself committing the brutal murders...and that person can still end up pardoned. Likely? No, but they can end up walking the streets again...only one person in history who was ever executed was seen walking the streets again...

Ultimate crimes require ultimate punishments - to protect society.
While I don't necessarily agree with all of your points, i can certainly see where you come from. I think it would be very interesting if we could see data on how many innocent people have died in prison vs being killed by death penalty but obviously, the data on the former would be very very hard to come by.
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
1,202
6
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Prison is not a deterrent either...

The biggest gain from the death penalty is the lack of repeat offenders. No one executed for a crime has ever gone out and committed another crime. We cannot say that about those placed in prison. In face:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeat_offender

If we executed people for rape and murder, we could remove every one of those repeat offenses. Think bout the people who would have been raped or murdered, but were not due to their future attackers being executed instead of jailed and released, if we executed for said crimes.
Right, and this is a serious issue. I guess the question is, is it better to kill innocent people (through the government) or let innocent people get killed by repeat offenders?

Rapists probably deserve chemical castration but that is another discussion....

Ideally, at some point criminal investigation is good enough to a point where the first one is not a serious consideration, but theyve been saying that for years -- it will never happen.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Prison is not a deterrent either...

The biggest gain from the death penalty is the lack of repeat offenders. No one executed for a crime has ever gone out and committed another crime. We cannot say that about those placed in prison. In face:
The biggest gain from the death penalty is it keeps people from claiming that life in prison is "inhumane"

See Norway where killing 70 people gets you 21 years.

I have heard similar stories for both Germany and Italy I believe as well.
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
1,202
6
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The biggest gain from the death penalty is it keeps people from claiming that life in prison is "inhumane"

See Norway where killing 70 people gets you 21 years.

I have heard similar stories for both Germany and Italy I believe as well.
Thats not even a good example, though.....that guy is never gonna leave prison. That said, that is one of the cases where I (and probably most people even those usually against the death penalty) would absolutely support killing that guy.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Right, and this is a serious issue. I guess the question is, is it better to kill innocent people (through the government) or let innocent people get killed by repeat offenders?

Rapists probably deserve chemical castration but that is another discussion....

Ideally, at some point criminal investigation is good enough to a point where the first one is not a serious consideration, but theyve been saying that for years -- it will never happen.
So it is okay to chemically castrate someone who might be innocent?:confused:
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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I don't understand how a person can be against the death penalty on the basis that one innocent life lost outweighs any possible benefits, yet ok with limiting handgun possession and self-defense derived from it, provided that it reduces gun-borne death overall.
 

marvdmartian

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2002
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I'd love to know how the politicians seem to think we'll ever dig ourselves out of this economical mess we're in, when the Democrats want to spend like there's no tomorrow and raise taxes to cover it, and the Republicans want to cut spending AND taxes? Here's a clue.....really quite simple to the rest of us:
CUT SPENDING AND RAISE TAXES!! :rolleyes:

Actually, stop spending foolishly, and fix the tax code, and the average person really won't see much of a difference!

Also, when will people figure out that career politicians really don't give a damn about what you want, they're only in it for themselves, and will tell you anything they think will keep you voting for them! Stop defending them like they're your relatives! They're ALL crooks!!
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
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I don't understand how a person can be against the death penalty on the basis that one innocent life lost outweighs any possible benefits, yet ok with limiting handgun possession and self-defense derived from it, provided that it reduces gun-borne death overall.
Yeah gun-banning morons are just that....morons. They also tend to be pretty bad at using any sort of logic. That said, they seem to be a dying breed these days, which is why I was somewhat surprised it came up in the debate. It just doesn't seem to be a large political issue (like the economy or foreign affairs........or affairs with foreigners..... ;) )
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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Prison is not a deterrent either...

The biggest gain from the death penalty is the lack of repeat offenders. No one executed for a crime has ever gone out and committed another crime. We cannot say that about those placed in prison. In face:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeat_offender

If we executed people for rape and murder, we could remove every one of those repeat offenses. Think bout the people who would have been raped or murdered, but were not due to their future attackers being executed instead of jailed and released, if we executed for said crimes.
Well, gee whiz, why stop at murder and rape? Why not execute everyone convicted of a felony? Then you could stop all of the repeat offenses some of those felons would otherwise commit after they were released.

It's not like you have any respect for human life, since you're okay with state-sanctioned murder. So why not go all the way and execute all felons?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Well, gee whiz, why stop at murder and rape? Why not execute everyone convicted of a felony? Then you could stop all of the repeat offenses some of those felons would otherwise commit after they were released.

It's not like you have any respect for human life, since you're okay with state-sanctioned murder. So why not go all the way and execute all felons?
Well it would probably make more sense to use something like the 3 strike system.

It would also reduce the "maybe we are wrong" argument.

Innocent people don't get wrongly convicted on multiple separate felonies.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
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Conservatives should LOVE abortion and birth control. Unwanted babies take up welfare, increase crime rates (according to Freakonomics).

I'm against the death penalty, for two reasons. 1) It costs more to kill a person than to have him in the system for his entire life time simply because of the appeal process.
2)Because the system is broken. I hear about almost constantly how those who get the death penalty are mentally retarded or declared innocent due to bloodwork. Like it or not, the vast majority of those innocent killed... are young black men in the states of Texas, or Alabama. Until the system gets fixed, there should be no death penalty.
I think there should be more abortions, and just to show my socialist side, I approve of the government paying for it.

Death penalty should be revamped. Most importantly, cases where there is very clear evidence(such as video) of such a crime that supports a death sentence verdict should have their death sentences carried out in less than 60 days. Being mentally retarded should not prevent someone from getting the death penalty.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
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My main question for Dem's is:
How can you support women's right to abort a baby but oppose a state's right to kill a confessed murderer?
You assume too much. In regards to the death penalty and Dems, you do realize that it's about a 50/50 split... right?
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Well, gee whiz, why stop at murder and rape? Why not execute everyone convicted of a felony? Then you could stop all of the repeat offenses some of those felons would otherwise commit after they were released.
I already answered this, but you just wanted to foam at the mouth and cry out in an intellectually devoid rage...

"Ultimate crimes require ultimate punishments - to protect society."

It's not like you have any respect for human life, since you're okay with state-sanctioned murder. So why not go all the way and execute all felons?
Ah, now I see the problem. You do not know the English language very well, so you think killing and murder are the same thing. Murder is a subset in the superset of killing. Not all killing is murder, but all murder is killing. Much like not all men are brothers, but all brothers are men.

Do you need me to explain what murder is, so you can understand the difference between it and killing, or are you going to look it up on your own?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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Death penalty should be revamped. Most importantly, cases where there is very clear evidence(such as video) of such a crime that supports a death sentence verdict should have their death sentences carried out in less than 60 days. Being mentally retarded should not prevent someone from getting the death penalty.
Yes! Like the guy who shot the NM congresswoman. There is zero question he did it. Why is he still alive?
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
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784
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I don't understand how a person can be against the death penalty on the basis that one innocent life lost outweighs any possible benefits, yet ok with limiting handgun possession and self-defense derived from it, provided that it reduces gun-borne death overall.
Your question doesn't follow. The two statements are incongruous. What does preventing innocent life have to do with not banning handguns?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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Your question doesn't follow. The two statements are incongruous. What does preventing innocent life have to do with not banning handguns?
There is a lot he did not type, but here is what he was saying:

People who are for banning handguns do not care that the innocent victims of crimes can no longer defend themselves and therefor become victims. Many of the people who want handguns banned, and therefor do not care about the innocents they harm by it, claim the death penalty should be done away with due to the innocents harmed by it.

They hold the belief that innocents should not be harmed when it suits them, and abandons it when it gets in the way.

I believe that is what he was saying.
 

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