They going to let Bradley Manning see the light of day?

[airdata]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/2...kileaks-trial-likely-to-face/?test=latestnews


Saw some people on facebook posting about this and some of the comments were quite distubing... So I thought I'd see if the classy crew here in P&N can meet or exceed the already horrendous comments I've seen regarding the case.


What do all of you think about the case, or about the angle of ' aiding the enemy ' ?

I didn't think letting the public know about our war attrocities was aiding the enemy. This is 2012 and there are eyes and ears everywhere. You can't simply blow up innocent people without somebody finding out.

I'm sure back in vietnam they could roast children over a firepit and nobody would find out... and those who did make light of it back then were again regarded as hippies, anti american, and even traitors.

 

[airdata]

Serious thread, Serious topic, no reply posts.

Where are all the neo cons at?

 

[JTsyo]

This was already discussed 2 years ago. My take. He just did a dump of sensitive information not expose anything in particular. I wouldn't consider that whistleblowing, he should do hard time for it.

 

[Greenman]

A little impatient this morning, aren't you?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Who knows what all was dumped in terms of classified info.

The more sensitive stuff may not be divulged publicly as to alert people that can take the info and use it now realizing the value.

It is aiding the enemy and deserves to be treated as such.

 

[airdata]

Who knows what all was dumped in terms of classified info.

The more sensitive stuff may not be divulged publicly as to alert people that can take the info and use it now realizing the value.

It is aiding the enemy and deserves to be treated as such.

And nothing has been proven in a court of law.

Innocent until proven guilty, right guys?




Or we can just go all gestapo and torture people for 2 years until they'll admit or confess to anything.

Also, aiding the enemy is a serious allegation. At most they can prove that he passed sensitive materials to a media group. None of which equates to aiding any enemies unless we're considering people who seek to know the truth as enemies.

 

[airdata]

Don't be scared. Just hear to discuss the torture and imprisonment of an american citizen possibly coming to an end soon... possibly because of continued support on the internet for actual justice.

Where all my ' innocent until proven guilty' folks at?
Would you guys be supporting manning if he'd gunned down a black teenager?

 

[Kadarin]

Manning deserves due process of law rather than what he's been getting. If he's guilty then have a judge hand down an appropriate sentence, but keeping him in prison or solitary confinement without even a hearing for years is very very wrong.

 

[Xecuter]

Manning deserves due process of law rather than what he's been getting. If he's guilty then have a judge hand down an appropriate sentence, but keeping him in prison or solitary confinement without even a hearing for years is very very wrong.

Bingo

 

[airdata]

Manning deserves due process of law rather than what he's been getting. If he's guilty then have a judge hand down an appropriate sentence, but keeping him in prison or solitary confinement without even a hearing for years is very very wrong.

Nail on the head.



Sadly alot of the p&n all stars are steering clear of the thread because they don't want to admit to being hypocrites.

 

[Nintendesert]

He's copping a plea, WTF are you all bitching about? He's admitted guilt to 8 charges and faces 16 years for it.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Nail on the head.



Sadly alot of the p&n all stars are steering clear of the thread because they don't want to admit to being hypocrites.

Yes, he is innocent until proven guilty
Yes, the treatment he received when he was in Marine brigs was excessive
Yes, he's a member of the armed forces and subject to rules/regulations covered by the UCMJ which is not the same as civilian law.

There's no guarantee that the judge will accept his plea though she has said she will consider his plea on Dec 10th. If the military's evidence is strong enough I seriously doubt the judge will accept the plea and continue forward with the original 22 charges against him.

 

[airdata]

He's copping a plea, WTF are you all bitching about? He's admitted guilt to 8 charges and faces 16 years for it.

After being tortured and having his rights grossly violated.

Probably only a plea deal because they know they can't try him and win ( given the fact he's been tortured and treated inhumanely ), and because they probably threatened him with further torture and or death penalty for crimes he didn't commit.

 

[EagleKeeper]

After being tortured and having his rights grossly violated.

Probably only a plea deal because they know they can't try him and win ( given the fact he's been tortured and treated inhumanely ), and because they probably threatened him with further torture and or death penalty for crimes he didn't commit.

Military does not equate to civilian law.

Tortured is based on his lawyer statements to the media.

 

[EagleKeeper]

And nothing has been proven in a court of law.

Innocent until proven guilty, right guys?




Or we can just go all gestapo and torture people for 2 years until they'll admit or confess to anything.

Also, aiding the enemy is a serious allegation. At most they can prove that he passed sensitive materials to a media group. None of which equates to aiding any enemies unless we're considering people who seek to know the truth as enemies.

We do not know what can be proven and not.
The details are not released as to what documents and the classification level.

Military operates differently than civilian because of the responsibility and constraints.

For more detailed explanation - ask our resident ex JAG officer

 

[Nebor]

After being tortured and having his rights grossly violated.

Probably only a plea deal because they know they can't try him and win ( given the fact he's been tortured and treated inhumanely ), and because they probably threatened him with further torture and or death penalty for crimes he didn't commit.

I don't believe for a second that he was tortured. There's too many eyes on him all the time for that to happen, even if the US military were in the business of torturing people.

 

[Fern]

Some people obviously couldn't be bothered to google before posting.

He was moved out of solitary long ago.

He's be in court since the beginning of this year. Heck, he's in court again today.

Fern

 

[blankslate]

I don't believe for a second that he was tortured. There's too many eyes on him all the time for that to happen, even if the US military were in the business of torturing people.

Solitary confinement can be psychological torture if not physical torture depending on the length of it and how often they see another face and whether or not that person addresses them or just treats them in a perfunctory manner.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Solitary confinement can be psychological torture if not physical torture depending on the length of it and how often they see another face and whether or not that person addresses them or just treats them in a perfunctory manner.

Civilians go through solitary and survive.

His safety in a military prison may be paramount; in the general population; he could be at risk.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

the guy exposed what the planets biggest and most powerful terroist organization on the planet was doing in another country. do you really think the average person would approve of the kind of stuff were doing in foreign countries if they knew the details. when a country like syria uses helicopters to shoot terrorists who are trying to overthrow the government, they are portrayed as an evil in the american media. and yet manning showed america is doing the exact same things in order to overthrow the un recognized governments in foreign countries where they really have no right to even be. manning deserves the nobel peace prize, he is definitely a political prisoner and a human rights hero

 

[werepossum]

Manning deserves due process of law rather than what he's been getting. If he's guilty then have a judge hand down an appropriate sentence, but keeping him in prison or solitary confinement without even a hearing for years is very very wrong.

Ahem.

Some people obviously couldn't be bothered to google before posting.

He was moved out of solitary long ago.

He's be in court since the beginning of this year. Heck, he's in court again today.

Fern

 

[blankslate]

Civilians go through solitary and survive.

His safety in a military prison may be paramount; in the general population; he could be at risk.

People can survive torture too. What are the side effects of extended periods of extreme isolation. If you can cite sources that say there are no negative side effects I'd be surprised.

Additionally people in solitary confinement are sometimes denied visitation rights that other prisoners get. Do prisoners often get attacked by people who visit them?

 

[werepossum]

People can survive torture too. What are the side effects of extended periods of extreme isolation. If you can cite sources that say there are no negative side effects I'd be surprised.

Additionally people in solitary confinement are sometimes denied visitation rights that other prisoners get. Do prisoners often get attacked by people who visit them?

It's prison. Negative side effects are pretty much the point.

 

[kache]

It's prison. Negative side effects are pretty much the point.

The point of prison is rehabilitation, not the opposite. If the convicted returns to the society crazy it's not beneficial at all.

 

[blankslate]

the guy exposed what the planets biggest and most powerful terroist organization on the planet was doing in another country. do you really think the average person would approve of the kind of stuff were doing in foreign countries if they knew the details. when a country like syria uses helicopters to shoot terrorists who are trying to overthrow the government, they are portrayed as an evil in the american media. and yet manning showed america is doing the exact same things in order to overthrow the un recognized governments in foreign countries where they really have no right to even be. manning deserves the nobel peace prize, he is definitely a political prisoner and a human rights hero

Calling the military a terrorist organization isn't far. However, when this video came out in which two Reuters reporters were attacked then their rescuers were subsequently attacked I'm pretty sure some people were upset.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to3Ymw8L6ZI


Other videos containing the same footage that add captions describing the people shot and what happened in the aftermath in more detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L07Ax4J1GlE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8kV5j7beu8



You can take issue with the video title if you want. Personally I would have chosen "AH-64 crew fires on Iraqis then fires again on civilians going to their aid" and let the viewer draw their own conclusion.

However I'd like to see what kinds of logical pretzels people can twist themselves into defending the firing on the people who came to help and the treatment of the people after they were injured or killed.