they dont allow blacks at oxford or cambridge

[CanOWorms]

She doesn't want to go to a certain place because she wants to be among people similar to her in terms of race/culture/ethnicity. That's most certainly her right, but that means it's completely her choice. As long as nobody is denying her the same choice everyone else has, there is no issue. It's up to each person to decide where they want to go (provided they are qualified).

Sure, but here the government is involved.

 

[Infohawk]

Do you hate diversity?

Not at all.

Again, be honest and admit if the girl in the article was white you'd be screaming that she's a racist.

 

[CanOWorms]

Not at all.

Again, be honest and admit if the girl in the article was white you'd be screaming that she's a racist.

Well, wouldn't you think she was racist? You already said that the girl in the article was racist. Is diversity in terms of ethnicity, race, religion important?

 

[Infohawk]

Well, wouldn't you think she was racist? You already said that the girl in the article was racist. Is diversity in terms of ethnicity, race, religion important?

Why aren't you answering the question? Isn't it straightforward?

 

[CanOWorms]

Why aren't you answering the question? Isn't it straightforward?

Why aren't you answering the question? Isn't it straightforward?

 

[Infohawk]

Why aren't you answering the question? Isn't it straightforward?

Because I asked it first. But since I'm more mature, I'll answer first. I think they would both be racist. Can you answer the question now or do you lack honor in addition to being a liar?

 

[CPA]

Apparently we don't need to imagine it.

So what do you suggest they do? Let the black students take the place of a more qualified non-black student?

Hey, if it's good for the US, it should be good for Britain.

 

[CanOWorms]

Because I asked it first. But since I'm more mature, I'll answer first. I think they would both be racist. Can you answer the question now or do you lack honor in addition to being a liar?

Yes.

You're being hypocritical here. You have the habit of cutting off the questions in my posts and responding only to a small snippet. But I don't pester you on the questions because I don't care that much about someone's Internet honor.

 

[Infohawk]

Yes.

You're being hypocritical here. You have the habit of cutting off the questions in my posts and responding only to a small snippet. But I don't pester you on the questions because I don't care that much about someone's Internet honor.

You can always re-ask. Sometimes people just don't see all the questions.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

You can always re-ask. Sometimes people just don't see all the questions.

You're getting trolled kid.

 

[hal2kilo]

Ah yes, the culture/country of "The white man's burden". No surprise. Promoted slavery to the white world.

 

[Zebo]

only 32 slots? Hmmm... seems youd have to admit over 10000 to finally hit a black person in UK - it's not like USA.

 

[Infohawk]

You're getting trolled kid.

That's a definite possibility... You trollin' COW?

 

[JMapleton]

They admit based on merit, not race and should not have racial quotas.

If I was a minority and I was offered a position based on my race I would be insulted.

 

[HAL9000]

The OP is wrong

/Thread

 

[Chen019]

Last year in Nature University of Chicago geneticist Bruce Lahn & Lanny Ebenstein published an article suggesting that people need to learn to accept human genetic diversity. Basically, there is no reason to expect identical proportions of groups to excel at the same things.

Linda Gottfredson has written about this in the context of psychometrics. This predicts the overrepresentation of East Asian students and underrepresentation of some other groups at elite colleges. Ashkenazi jews also tend to be overrepresented and this is predicted by psychometrics.*

Gottfredson, L. S. (2006). Social consequences of group differences in cognitive ability (Consequencias sociais das diferencas de grupo em habilidade cognitiva). In C. E. Flores-Mendoza & R. Colom (Eds.), Introducau a psicologia das diferencas individuais (pp. 433-456). Porto Allegre, Brazil: ArtMed Publishers.

http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2004socialconsequences.pdf

* http://harpending.humanevo.utah.edu/Documents/ashkiq.webpub.pdf

 

[Infohawk]

Last year in Nature University of Chicago geneticist Bruce Lahn & Lanny Ebenstein published an article suggesting that people need to learn to accept human genetic diversity. Basically, there is no reason to expect identical proportions of groups to excel at the same things.

Linda Gottfredson has written about this in the context of psychometrics. This predicts the overrepresentation of East Asian students and underrepresentation of some other groups at elite colleges. Ashkenazi jews also tend to be overrepresented and this is predicted by psychometrics.*

Gottfredson, L. S. (2006). Social consequences of group differences in cognitive ability (Consequencias sociais das diferencas de grupo em habilidade cognitiva). In C. E. Flores-Mendoza & R. Colom (Eds.), Introducau a psicologia das diferencas individuais (pp. 433-456). Porto Allegre, Brazil: ArtMed Publishers.

http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2004socialconsequences.pdf

* http://harpending.humanevo.utah.edu/Documents/ashkiq.webpub.pdf

Interesting choice for a first post on Anandtech.

Even if there are differences in intelligence, there would still be overlapping of the bell curves. It wouldn't explain the disparity, which is readily explained by cultural attitudes towards education. Here we see that from so few applications.

 

[Baasha]

LOL that article is really misleading.

Oxford and Cambridge take the best and brightest.

 

[Darwin333]

could you imagine a college, esp a public one like cambridge or oxford, in the u.s not having any blacks?

So you are saying that we should be able to and even forced to accept/hire people based on their skin color (regardless of how little the skin colors weight is used in the decision)?

 

[Darwin333]

Hey, if it's good for the US, it should be good for Britain.

WTF?

Umm, why?

 

[CanOWorms]

So you are saying that we should be able to and even forced to accept/hire people based on their skin color (regardless of how little the skin colors weight is used in the decision)?

Maybe they should factor in inequities in someone's personal situation.

Is Oxford or Cambridge doing so? Likely not as the UK is an extremely class-obsessed society.

 

[CycloWizard]

Maybe they should factor in inequities in someone's personal situation.

Is Oxford or Cambridge doing so? Likely not as the UK is an extremely class-obsessed society.

The admissions process at Oxford and Cambridge are far more transparent than any other universities in the world. While the UK is a very class-based society, their classes are not based on race, occupation, or money, so these have no influence on the admission decision. I have been at Oxford during Open Days to see the process first-hand. Further, since tuition was virtually nothing, there was no basis for wealth-based discrimination. Oxford and Cambridge both have endowments large enough to offer scholarships to students who are bright enough to be there, regardless of their ability to pay. They have been using this mechanism for hundreds of years (e.g. bringing Rutherford from New Zealand to Cambridge).

These accusations are also obviously spurious in light of the manner in which admission to Oxford and Cambridge is achieved. Selection is based on the decision of fellows of a given college within the discipline to which the student applies. If someone applies to engineering at X College, the engineering fellow(s) of X College will make the final admission decision on that student. Since the fellow(s) may be black, Indian, or whatever other race, it is ridiculous to assert that they would deny entry to a qualified citizen of a given race.

 

[CanOWorms]

The admissions process at Oxford and Cambridge are far more transparent than any other universities in the world. While the UK is a very class-based society, their classes are not based on race, occupation, or money, so these have no influence on the admission decision. I have been at Oxford during Open Days to see the process first-hand. Further, since tuition was virtually nothing, there was no basis for wealth-based discrimination. Oxford and Cambridge both have endowments large enough to offer scholarships to students who are bright enough to be there, regardless of their ability to pay. They have been using this mechanism for hundreds of years (e.g. bringing Rutherford from New Zealand to Cambridge).

Your personal attendance at an open house is nice, but it doesn't really answer any questions on the influence of class, race, occupation, money.

These accusations are also obviously spurious in light of the manner in which admission to Oxford and Cambridge is achieved. Selection is based on the decision of fellows of a given college within the discipline to which the student applies. If someone applies to engineering at X College, the engineering fellow(s) of X College will make the final admission decision on that student. Since the fellow(s) may be black, Indian, or whatever other race, it is ridiculous to assert that they would deny entry to a qualified citizen of a given race.

Do you have data on the fellows? If not, it seems ridiculous to make a huge leap in logic here.

 

[OutHouse]

amazing, they dont allow blacks in just because they are black?

 

[CycloWizard]

Your personal attendance at an open house is nice, but it doesn't really answer any questions on the influence of class, race, occupation, money.

Do you have data on the fellows? If not, it seems ridiculous to make a huge leap in logic here.

Look up who the fellows are - it's freely available information on the website for each college. I was at the Open Days while working there, not as part of the interview process. I don't really have any stake in the argument either way, but I read up quite a bit about the English class system before living there and working at Oxford, and I can say with a high degree of certainty that race, occupation, and money have nothing to do with your class. Your class is determined by your mannerisms, house decor, and a lot of other factors which are all independent of money, occupation, and race. I read an entire book on the subject, written by an Oxford anthropologist, which is quite interesting. It certainly saved my bacon in a few social situations which would otherwise be indecipherable by American cultural standards (e.g. the port always travels anticlockwise, or is it clockwise? I knew back in January ).