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These debates are driving me nuts...

W

WhatDidYouSayPilau

Member
I have a Radeon 9700 I'm looking to replace because I'm one of the rare people that have the VPU recovery problem(that ironically, the vpu recovery crap in the new drivers doesnt repair) and I want to know what card to get.

The new nvidia's cost approx. 9million f'in dollars(why?) and the new radeons are cheaper but apparently according to some nerdsacks on this site they are cheating on benchmarks? I've read almost every thread concerning this and I have two nagging questions.

1) Is it possible for ATI to fix this filtering issue with driver updates and modifications so that you dont lose 20% in framerates when you turn true tri filtering on?

2) What the hell is SM3.0 and why should I pay 200 dollars more for this feature? I've seen people say "omg ur gonna need it dewd lmao" but I haven't seen one screenshot or video or anything comparing this to SM2.0.

Thanks in advance.
 
1. doubtful

2. no, sm3 or not the price gouging by online retailers is ass - even on x800 (bba x800p $461 @ newegg). thank goodness i got mine for $350. i'll wait on the nv40 until the gouging stops.
 
Originally posted by: WhatDidYouSayPilau
I have a Radeon 9700 I'm looking to replace because I'm one of the rare people that have the VPU recovery problem(that ironically, the vpu recovery crap in the new drivers doesnt repair) and I want to know what card to get.

The new nvidia's cost approx. 9million f'in dollars(why?) and the new radeons are cheaper but apparently according to some nerdsacks on this site they are cheating on benchmarks? I've read almost every thread concerning this and I have two nagging questions.

1) Is it possible for ATI to fix this filtering issue with driver updates and modifications so that you dont lose 20% in framerates when you turn true tri filtering on?

2) What the hell is SM3.0 and why should I pay 200 dollars more for this feature? I've seen people say "omg ur gonna need it dewd lmao" but I haven't seen one screenshot or video or anything comparing this to SM2.0.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


1. Doubtful without losing performance. But anything is possible.

2. The picture quality and type of effects are identical between SM2.0 and SM 3.0. The effects you can have with SM3.0 can be done just the same with 2.0. However, the method that 3.0 uses to accomplish its instruction are much more capable of doing it efficiently. So you get the same exact results but with less GPU overhead. Hence, more performance doing the same job. I have also heard that it is much, much easier for programmers to code for games with 3.0 than with 2.0. It is probably the reason we have seen so few 2.0 games come to retail. Its hard, or more time consuming to code for 2.0. Being easier to code for 3.0 translates into more titles coming to retail at faster rates. I dont know the exact terminology for all this garbage, but this is the very general idea. And where the heck did you get the idea that 3.0 option costs 200 dollars more? Where are you shopping? Tiffany's Electronics boutique?

6800Ultra Is available for pre order from PNY at 499.99. Other places are charging more. But this is the normal price gouging you have to put up with on the release of new products. X800XT can be had for about 440.00. Sixty dollar difference, not 200. Your best bet is to wait a few months for the insanity to calm down and prices fall a bit or at least stabilize. Then make your purchase.
 
1. IMHO, IQ between the two cards are nearly identical
2. i dont car about SM3.0 until it is proven it does something visually that ps2.0 cannot do
 
I really do want to wait, but I've been putting up with this crash out of nowhere problem with the 9700 for about 1.5 years now. I really held out that long. I even had a 30 something page going on the abit official forums that got stickied, with other people having the same problems(even with diff mobos). ATI -never- fixed the problem.

It seems I have horrible luck. I just sold my gil on FFXI for a nice 160 dollars though so that may persuade me to get a 6800GT or U in a few weeks, when they are actually available in vast amounts. This is all so confusing to me because I never keep up with this stuff unless I'm about to buy, and I guess that is my fault.
 
Originally posted by: shady06
1. IMHO, IQ between the two cards are nearly identical
2. i dont car about SM3.0 until it is proven it does something visually that ps2.0 cannot do
Click to expand...


Ahh yes... forgive my ignorance, I was meaning to compare SM3.0 and PS2.0 in my original post, sorry for the guy who laid it out for me about SM3.0 vs. 2.0, it still helped anyways.

Also this is the only screenshot I've found of SM3.0 doing anything that people say ps2.0 can't do:

http://www.planetmars.co.za/forums/index.php?s=d6dd8b22e5c893e7ab46c5aef46e50ed&showtopic=13585&st=0&#entry164479
 
You will always have their optimizations granting you 20% or more in frames compared to if they had their cheat/optimization/whateverucallit on. They wont figure out a way to eliminate the optimization and still get the same frames. Nv's cards are costly right now due to them being as rare as they are. The prices will fall as soon as they get more out the door.
PS3.0/SM3.0 (same thing really) is basically the ability to create displacment mapping in games. It is often compared to bumpmapping but doesnt look 2d when u get close to it. (just think 3d bumpmapping)
Also, it has something called instancing. think of the grunts in wc3 and then think of them being renerated all in one pass instead of many to generate them all indavidually
I believe it also has something to do with the length of shader code being above 100 something. Hence more done per pass.
This isnt in any games yet, but is supposed to be in many upcomming and already released games (farcry with its new patch for example)
Another thing to note is that the ATI cards suffer very little from their optimization that produces "brilinear" filtering. It bascially looks 98% the same and is only noticable if you pick apart the scene but yields better frames. Dispite what people tell you, both cards are basically the same and will flip flop over who is better then who in various games with various driver releases. You cant go wrong buying any of their new cards (x800 pro, x800xt, 6800, 6800 gt, 6800 ultra). If you can wait, prices will drop on them all as soon as NV puts out more cards. If you cant wait, just get what u can afford that is out right now.
 
Originally posted by: WhatDidYouSayPilau
Originally posted by: shady06
1. IMHO, IQ between the two cards are nearly identical
2. i dont car about SM3.0 until it is proven it does something visually that ps2.0 cannot do
Click to expand...


Ahh yes... forgive my ignorance, I was meaning to compare SM3.0 and PS2.0 in my original post, sorry for the guy who laid it out for me about SM3.0 vs. 2.0, it still helped anyways.

Also this is the only screenshot I've found of SM3.0 doing anything that people say ps2.0 can't do:

http://www.planetmars.co.za/forums/index.php?s=d6dd8b22e5c893e7ab46c5aef46e50ed&showtopic=13585&st=0&#entry164479
Click to expand...


hmm, i wish there was a 2.0 imagine for compariosn
 
uhh ok another thing that's bothering me is WHY IS IT SO HARD TO POST A RELEASE DATE ON THE COMPANY WEBSITE?? I looked on nvidia.com for like 30 minutes and couldnt find anything about the 6800GT or even the 6800!!

When were these cards officially released? If they have been already why the hell are they in such short supply? what is WRONG with nvidia? Either launch or don't, jesus christ I'm so sick of this half assed stuff
 
Originally posted by: WhatDidYouSayPilau
uhh ok another thing that's bothering me is WHY IS IT SO HARD TO POST A RELEASE DATE ON THE COMPANY WEBSITE?? I looked on nvidia.com for like 30 minutes and couldnt find anything about the 6800GT or even the 6800!!

When were these cards officially released? If they have been already why the hell are they in such short supply? what is WRONG with nvidia? Either launch or don't, jesus christ I'm so sick of this half assed stuff
Click to expand...

Because I bought them all. *rubs hands together*
 
Can I ask why you haven't RMA'ed the card? From what I'm hearing at Rage3d a 9700 RMA will usually get you a 9800. Why not fix the issue instead of spend more money? Unless your card isn't a Built by ATi Product then I guess I can understand.
 
Originally posted by: Diablo6178
Can I ask why you haven't RMA'ed the card? From what I'm hearing at Rage3d a 9700 RMA will usually get you a 9800. Why not fix the issue instead of spend more money? Unless your card isn't a Built by ATi Product then I guess I can understand.
Click to expand...

I have the 9700 Pro and I suffer from the same problem. I can't stand it anymore. I sent several e-mails to ATI through their website about the problem and never once received a response.
 
Hey chief, I did RMA the card. They never respond once you start talking about the VPU recovery problem, last time I RMA'd it they just sent me a brand new card that does the same damn thing. Do you REALLY think that after having a thread stickied for an entire year on the OFFICIAL ABIT FORUMS about this issue that RMAing it would have slipped my mind? Please. ATI has shown no interest in fixing this problem other than the piece of crap VPU Recovery thing that -does not- fix the problem.


It catches the crash maybe 80% of the time, and forces you to reboot anyway, it only allows you to "Save your work."


So, how about those answers to my questions about this pathetic excuse for a launch?


edit: here is the thread on abit:

http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?s=d3774462a7573fb30661804d95b4adbe&threadid=21219

my name is lain on there.
 
Hey chief, I did RMA the card. They never respond once you start talking about the VPU recovery problem, last time I RMA'd it they just sent me a brand new card that does the same damn thing. Do you REALLY think that after having a thread stickied for an entire year on the OFFICIAL ABIT FORUMS about this issue that RMAing it would have slipped my mind? Please. ATI has shown no interest in fixing this problem other than the piece of crap VPU Recovery thing that -does not- fix the problem.


It catches the crash maybe 80% of the time, and forces you to reboot anyway, it only allows you to "Save your work."
Click to expand...

That sucks, but why are you even considering another ATi card? If a company treated me that way for trying to return their defective product, I wouldn't ever consider buying their stuff ever again. Of course, there will probably be horror stories from both sides and from probably almost every company out there, but when I personally have a bad experience like you have had, I tend to not go back.

So, how about those answers to my questions about this pathetic excuse for a launch?
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i think you answered your own question when you called it a "pathetic excuse for a launch".. That is about as much as us I know about it - Lot's of Hype, No Product!
 
I'm fairly ignorant on the "VPU Recovery" issues, but one question comes to mind:

Why don't you just disable VPU Recover in the driver options?

If they sent you a new card and the problem persists, it's obviously either a driver issue or a problem with your configuration. Did you try formatting and reinstalling Windows?

In any event, that's too bad. The X800PRO/XT would possibly give you the same issues as they are derivatives of the R300 core. I guess you're forced to go with nVidia, and they don't have many attractive options ATM. Are you sure there is no way to resolve your current conflict? Have you tried the Rage3d.com forums? If you could post full details of your problem we may be able to help you. What about ATi's tech support? Surely they must know something of this issue if it's so common.

Good luck.
 
Oh my god... please stop trying to solve a problem that nobody has been able to fix for a year+


Turning VPU recover off doesn't do anything but prevent me from saving my work. Back to the subject..

edit: I just saw you reccommend me formatting, what the hell is wrong with you? Did you even read the link to the forum I posted? Ive formatted like 3 times since I got this card. Then you move on to say it's "obviously" something wrong with my configuration, yes you are right, but thousands of other people have had the same problem and can't pinpoint what the configuration is that is causing it. Please stop taking me for a moron and suggesting things like "lol format ur pc dewd lawl itll fix it rite up"

edit 2: I HAVE BEEN TO RAGE3d.... I posted a thread there as well. Again, read the damn link I posted to abit and it describes everything, over numerous pages.

I guess what I want at this point aside from Einsteins magically solving this almost 2 year old problem that nobody has been able to fix so far, is wtF is the release date for the 6800GT and why does nvidia have such a problem with posting release dates on their site?
 
edit: I just saw you reccommend me formatting, what the hell is wrong with you? Did you even read the link to the forum I posted? Ive formatted like 3 times since I got this card. Then you move on to say it's "obviously" something wrong with my configuration, yes you are right, but thousands of other people have had the same problem and can't pinpoint what the configuration is that is causing it. Please stop taking me for a moron and suggesting things like "lol format ur pc dewd lawl itll fix it rite up"
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Take it easy! He's trying to help you, why are you being offensive like that? He didn't read the thread at Abit forums and nobody will, cuz it's like 16 pages concerning a problem we don't have, he just suggested a solution assuming it's a normal problem. Nothing's wrong with that!
Anyway, I have no clue about this VPU recovery issue, can anybody explain this for me? (Just curious)
 
You have to forgive me I'm at my wit's end with this... it enduces blinding rage to even think about it lol I need help.

I was considering getting that 6800Ultra for 489 on the site someone listed... still kind of high but I don't think it will go down by much
 
every post is a bump, so its rude to trash talk other members opinions.

you've had two cards that are messed up for some whacko reason. you want the new nvidia because its going to be the best.

1) ati's filtering technique in the new x800 so far hasn't seemed to produce anywhere near the image degradation that nvidias 5900 optimisations had. in fact, in motion, the IQ is indistinguishable from the reference nvidia product.

2) SM 3, who knows whether its going to be useful.
 
Originally posted by: WhatDidYouSayPilau
Ok so why are people calling the new X800 just the old core with more pipes?
Click to expand...

Because it's the old core with more pipes 😛
J/K, it's a revision of the well-known R300 (the one you already have) but a very good revision. It offers like 2x the performance of it's predecessors. They added 8 more pipes, increased GPU and memory clock rates and revised the architechture (don't know how to spell that word correctly), they also added some features (3Dc and TAA [the latter could be used by older cards I guess]).
So the people who say it's just the old core with more pipes must be Nvidia fans.


edit: that GF 6800 ultra at 489$ turned out to be a GT! If you're willing to buy a video card right now, an X800Pro/XT is your best bet depending on your budget, unless you don't wanna risk to have the same "VPU Recovery" problem! If so, then you have to wait for the GF 6 series to come out.
 
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