Thermaltake Toughpower 1200W, Beast or Burden?

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PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
13,837
4
0
Originally posted by: JAG87
Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: JAG87
the rule is, calculate your WATTS by using the main component's TDP rating, therefore CPU(s) + VGA(s). Then add 50W for the motherboard. Then add 100W for everything else (sound card, fans, drives, lights, pumps, and so on). now take that value and add 20%

and that is your PSU recommended wattage.

example:

Q6600 B3 > 105W
8800 GTX > 185W
motherboard > 50W
everything else > 100W

= 440W x 1.20 = 528W

hence, a 520W power supply would be ideal for a system like that. jonny like to be a bit more cautious than that with his 50% load rule, but at least he is over dimensioning, something that all the rest of you are failing to do. don't cry when your PSU blows 5-6 years down the road.

Again, the 8800GTX is only 131W peak power, not 185.

negative :)

Prove it. I showed you a test that measured the peak power along with the average and idle power. Also the "Extreme power supply calculator" which is known to be conservative rates the 8800GTX at 133W. Show me where you decide that its 185W from.
 

dclive

Elite Member
Oct 23, 2003
5,626
2
81
Originally posted by: JAG87
Originally posted by: dclive
Originally posted by: JAG87
don't cry when your PSU blows 5-6 years down the road.

You're kidding, right? Is anyone here seriously using the same PSU they had from 5-6 years ago?!


no I am not kidding. I only buy a PSU every 5-6 years. and usually the reason I buy a new psu is for either improved cable management, or connector compatibility. not so much for the wattage. I bought the galaxy when it first came out about 2 years ago, and I was lucky enough to be able to RMA it to enermax this past winter and exchange it with the DXX Gamer's Edition which includes the 8 pin pci-e connectors for a small fee. I dont plan on buying a new PSU for another 5-6 years, unless something revolutionary comes out.

But you've already disproven that - your PSU is only 2 years old.

How old was your previous PSU, the one you had 2 years ago, when you replaced it?
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
3,921
3
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Originally posted by: dclive
Originally posted by: JAG87
Originally posted by: dclive
Originally posted by: JAG87
don't cry when your PSU blows 5-6 years down the road.

You're kidding, right? Is anyone here seriously using the same PSU they had from 5-6 years ago?!


no I am not kidding. I only buy a PSU every 5-6 years. and usually the reason I buy a new psu is for either improved cable management, or connector compatibility. not so much for the wattage. I bought the galaxy when it first came out about 2 years ago, and I was lucky enough to be able to RMA it to enermax this past winter and exchange it with the DXX Gamer's Edition which includes the 8 pin pci-e connectors for a small fee. I dont plan on buying a new PSU for another 5-6 years, unless something revolutionary comes out.

But you've already disproven that - your PSU is only 2 years old.

How old was your previous PSU, the one you had 2 years ago, when you replaced it?


It was 5 years old. It was a 465W enermax. It powered both my P3 and my Athlon XP.
Then I got the galaxy, and then I switched it, something that I wouldn't have needed to do if enermax designed the first generation with the 8 pin pci-e connectors. So really it was their fault. I kindly explained to them that I just paid 350 dollars for a top notch PSU, and its already obsolete because it didnt't have 8 pin pci-e. They offered me to swap it if I was willing to pay a 20 dollar fee. I agreed.
 

dclive

Elite Member
Oct 23, 2003
5,626
2
81
Interesting. I don't keep machines for 5-6 years at a time (and can't imagine why anyone else would) and so I suspect my *oldest* PSU right now is what...maybe 3 years old, in a machine I no longer use that sits in a closet. In a machine in current use, my oldest PSU is probably 9 months old, tops. In this scenario there's no reason to overspend on a PSU - I'll just get a new one when I get a new machine. I always use what the vendor gives me (ie the stock PSU or the PSU included in the case - with one exception that proved to be totally unnecessary), and it's worked perfectly ever since I've had computers...
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
3,921
3
76
Originally posted by: dclive
Interesting. I don't keep machines for 5-6 years at a time


neither do I. I neverkeep the same hardware for more than 6 months. in the past 12 months I have had an athlon FX, an X6800, a QX6700 and a Xeon X3230, and they have all been powered with my galaxy. I have also had 7900 GTXs in SLI and 8800 GTXs in SLI. Once again all powered by the Galaxy.


Originally posted by: dclive
I always use what the vendor gives me (ie the stock PSU or the PSU included in the case - with one exception that proved to be totally unnecessary), and it's worked perfectly ever since I've had computers...


Sorry, but I think that pretty much ends the conversation between me and you.

 

dclive

Elite Member
Oct 23, 2003
5,626
2
81
Originally posted by: JAG87

Originally posted by: dclive
I always use what the vendor gives me (ie the stock PSU or the PSU included in the case - with one exception that proved to be totally unnecessary), and it's worked perfectly ever since I've had computers...


Sorry, but I think that pretty much ends the conversation between me and you.

Aside from the SLI'd GTXs and the OC there's nothing high-wattage about your current setup.

Your current PSU requirement is probably around 400W to 500W, aside from OC'ing the CPU, and that depends on your voltage. What do you think would happen if you ran a PSU that was "only" 500-550W, just out of curiosity?
 

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
13,837
4
0
Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: JAG87
Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: JAG87
the rule is, calculate your WATTS by using the main component's TDP rating, therefore CPU(s) + VGA(s). Then add 50W for the motherboard. Then add 100W for everything else (sound card, fans, drives, lights, pumps, and so on). now take that value and add 20%

and that is your PSU recommended wattage.

example:

Q6600 B3 > 105W
8800 GTX > 185W
motherboard > 50W
everything else > 100W

= 440W x 1.20 = 528W

hence, a 520W power supply would be ideal for a system like that. jonny like to be a bit more cautious than that with his 50% load rule, but at least he is over dimensioning, something that all the rest of you are failing to do. don't cry when your PSU blows 5-6 years down the road.

Again, the 8800GTX is only 131W peak power, not 185.

negative :)

Prove it. I showed you a test that measured the peak power along with the average and idle power. Also the "Extreme power supply calculator" which is known to be conservative rates the 8800GTX at 133W. Show me where you decide that its 185W from.

^ I have a feeling this will be ignored....
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: JAG87
Originally posted by: dclive
Interesting. I don't keep machines for 5-6 years at a time


neither do I. I neverkeep the same hardware for more than 6 months. in the past 12 months I have had an athlon FX, an X6800, a QX6700 and a Xeon X3230, and they have all been powered with my galaxy. I have also had 7900 GTXs in SLI and 8800 GTXs in SLI. Once again all powered by the Galaxy.


Originally posted by: dclive
I always use what the vendor gives me (ie the stock PSU or the PSU included in the case - with one exception that proved to be totally unnecessary), and it's worked perfectly ever since I've had computers...


Sorry, but I think that pretty much ends the conversation between me and you.


That only ends the conversation because you don't know how to reply (because you can't). The 8800GTX definitely does not use 185W. No way in hell. Max load is ~130W +/- 3W depending on process variation. This is normal for all silicon.

Jon, you can call me clueless as much as you want, but you are coming off like an absolute idiot (I'm sorry, it's true) when you say you need 800W to power a quad core and 8800GTX SLI. The power requirements simply don't add up, engineer or not - you should be able to do that math. People all over the place have similar or exactly the same setups running on 520W and 620W PSUs for months now with no problem. My sister has been running an 8800GTS, Q6600 OCed, 4gb RAM, 2x Raptor 74s, and all of the other various peripherals for 4 months (never turns her computer off because of work) on a 450W PSU.

You can toss around these huge numbers all you want, but no one believes you (no one SHOULD believe this BS) that you are pulling 800W from the wall. My X2 and 7800GT with RAID0 Raptors pull less than 140W from the wall when I'm doing nothing on my computer. Yes, it's older stuff, but come on, at full load it pulls 200W from the wall which is at best 160W to the components. You claim I have no experience, but I actually do. I have a power meter plugged into the socket on the wall which then supplies power to the computer. It is measuring 130W right now of wall power and I am running dual monitors (24" LCDs) and listening to music.

If we beefed up my system, and assumed everything was always running at load, then a quad core would add another 45W of power draw, an 8800GTX would add another 70W of power draw, and if we decided to run SLI we would add another 150W of power for the additional card.

Now let's do that complicated math again - 160W (base system at max load) + 45W for a quad core + 70W to upgrade the 7800GT to 8800GTX + 150 to add another 8800GTX = 435W. On a 520W PSU, this is ~80% when you are drawing max power, which you would basically never do unless you specifically set out to draw max power.

People (and you) also complain about in-rush or surge current, but this is also a non-issue with fully functional parts because the hard drive power on is after the CPU initialization (which the CPU is then idling, i.e. not using a lot of power) and the graphics card(s) are not even close to max power draw. The hard drives might use an additional 10W over their 10W idle to overcome the inductive loads, but that quickly tapers off when the motor reaches a steady state condition. You claim knowing theory and engineering means nothing next to experience, but your limited scope of understanding of these components shows when you flex your muscles here. If you claim to have had problems in the past and needed up to 800W of real wall power for your system, you are either lying or confused. There is no way that is correct - it's not even possible based on the components you listed. Their maximum power draw simply doesn't add up.

P.S. Nvidia suggested that the 8800GTX will use between 140 and 170W (MAX) depending on the manufacturer and the cooling system. Please, argue with Nvidia if you really want to but get it through your thick skulls that video cards don't use 300W of power each. Also, and this is a big one, the cards can't even draw more than 225W from the PSU. Ever. They can draw a MAX of 75W through the PCI-E port and if you add 2 6-pin PCI-E power adapters, you get a MAX of 225W. That is the absolute max they could draw - 225W. There is NO way to argue with that.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Prove it. I showed you a test that measured the peak power along with the average and idle power. Also the "Extreme power supply calculator" which is known to be conservative rates the 8800GTX at 133W. Show me where you decide that its 185W from.

^ I have a feeling this will be ignored....

Of course it will be ignored. There is no way to refute facts, especially when it doesn't fit their agenda in this thread (which is to push the idea that high wattage supplies are somehow necessary).
 

GalvanizedYankee

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2003
6,986
0
0
Sunbeam65,

At this point I would recommend you ask over at xtremesystems.org or jonnyguru.com.
This thread is now about little sick egos and I doubt the info here is meeting your needs..

Oh! BTW. First post, welcome to AnandTech...yeah, right. :Disgust;
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Sunbeam65,

At this point I would recommend you ask over at xtremesystems.org or jonnyguru.com.
This thread is now about little sick egos and I doubt the info here is meeting your needs..

Oh! BTW. First post, welcome to AnandTech...yeah, right. :Disgust;

I really don't see much ego going on anywhere. I threw in a few comments but only in response to the first 30 posts in this thread. And what are you talking about not meeting your needs with respect to info? Facts from Nvidia and the physical limitation of the PCI-E bus and power adapters aren't good enough? Right...
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Test Setup
Intel Core 2 Duo X6800 (operating at 2.93GHz - 11x266MHz); EVGA nForce 680i SLI motherboard (NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI); 2 x 1GB Corsair XMS2-6400C3 (operating in dual channel at DDR2-800 with 3-4-3-9-1T timings); Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 200GB SATA hard drive; OCZ GameXtreme 700W power supply unit; Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2; DirectX 9.0c; NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI standalone drivers version 9.35.

Power - Full load = 315

NVIDIA recommends a 450W true power supply to support the GeForce 8800 GTX,


Yeah, and you need 800W to simply power on a system and keep it stable :roll: Keep in mind that graph is showing power from the wall, not power in the system. The power to the components is < 300W and he has some pretty nice hardware in there. Add another 8800GTX and you surely aren't hitting over 450W of power from the wall.


Your very own Anandtech showing the same results. 8800GTX in systems

We tested power consumption for these parts in the same way we usually do, by measuring the total power draw of the system with each of the cards installed in two different states.

TOTAL power draw on these systems from the wall is < 200W at idle and all but one are < 300W at load.


Another 8800GTX setup w/ QX6700

Radeon X1950 XTX: Idle - 184, Load - 308
GeForce 8800GTX: Idle - 229, Load - 321

Yes, that was even with a Raptor150 and a quad core. 321W from the wall.


8800GTS SLI w/ FX-60

FX-60 stock with 8800GTS SLI stock windows start up system power draw = 277.3 Watts.

It's funny that GURU says his 8800GTXs won't even post with a 700W supply based on the above fact.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Dude,
You need to reread jon's posts in this thread. :D

Oh you mean where he said his system won't post with less than 700W? Yeah, I read that part.

or how about this part:
If you REALLY THINK you need a PSU that can put out a continuous 800 to 1000W and therefore need the cooling required to sustain low temperatures during 800W to 1000W loads, then I suggest the Etasis, SilverStone Zeus, X-Pro 750W, Turbo-Cool or ProXStream hands down.

Yes, that is great advice! Based on all of the links I posted with factual information, it is definitely a good idea to recommend an 800-1000W PSU. Someone who truly wanted to give good advice would have advised against a PSU in that range, not recommend one. The facts don't lie - no system mentioned in this thread or owned by anyone here, other than a quad SLI system, will draw even CLOSE to 800W from the wall. Not even close.


I admit that I am only "assuming" the longevity of a PSU run 24/7 at a minimum of a 50% load, but why not be on the side of "cautious" instead of siding with "reckless."

Now I can agree and get on board with this statement. However, it is definitely not being reckless to use a 620W PSU for the vast majority of these systems. The power draw simply won't load it enough. Who is going to run their system at 100% max power draw 24/7? Honestly, you have to be realistic here.
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
3,921
3
76
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Yes, that is great advice! Based on all of the links I posted with factual information, it is definitely a good idea to recommend an 800-1000W PSU. Someone who truly wanted to give good advice would have advised against a PSU in that range, not recommend one. The facts don't lie - no system mentioned in this thread or owned by anyone here, other than a quad SLI system, will draw even CLOSE to 800W from the wall. Not even close.


Why the hell would one advise agains an 850W or a 1000W power supply. Can you please explain to me the base of your logic? what part of a 1000W power supply am I advising against? the price? you know the old saying you get what you pay for? this applies specifically to power supplies.

Its just a fact that with a 500W load, a 300 dollar 1000W power supply will do a better job and will last longer than a 150 dollar 620W power supply. Why? Because the 1000W PSU was built with components that are made to handle 1000W, and thats why it costs more. Not because its "higher wattage". The 620W power supply might have great components too (like the Corsair does), but its still RATED for 620W, and hence with a 500W load you are putting 80% of strain on the power supply, while with a 1000W you are only putting 50% strain. Let me ask you something, would you rather be walking or running? If you had to do it for 12h a day, which one would wear you out and tire you faster? If you can't understand that, then I dont know how the hell you became an engineer.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: JAG87
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Yes, that is great advice! Based on all of the links I posted with factual information, it is definitely a good idea to recommend an 800-1000W PSU. Someone who truly wanted to give good advice would have advised against a PSU in that range, not recommend one. The facts don't lie - no system mentioned in this thread or owned by anyone here, other than a quad SLI system, will draw even CLOSE to 800W from the wall. Not even close.


Why the hell would one advise agains an 850W or a 1000W power supply. Can you please explain to me the base of your logic? what part of a 1000W power supply am I advising against? the price? you know the old saying you get what you pay for? this applies specifically to power supplies.

Its just a fact that with a 500W load, a 300 dollar 1000W power supply will do a better job and will last longer than a 150 dollar 620W power supply. Why? Because the 1000W PSU was built with components that are made to handle 1000W, and thats why it costs more. Not because its "higher wattage". The 620W power supply might have great components too (like the Corsair does), but its still RATED for 620W, and hence with a 500W load you are putting 80% of strain on the power supply, while with a 1000W you are only putting 50% strain. Let me ask you something, would you rather be walking or running? If you had to do it for 12h a day, which one would wear you out and tire you faster? If you can't understand that, then I dont know how the hell you became an engineer.

:roll: I can understand what you are saying just fine. A monkey can understand that. Thank you for ignoring my other points in several of my previous posts where I clearly showed facts negating some of your previous statements. The link from the Inquirer in the other thread is very accurate (see above to compare the results - they are the same).

Before we argue about any of this though, I'd like to know how you are so sure of the quality differences. Please post some kind of relevant, factual information regarding the quality of the PSUs you indirectly referenced. If you can prove what you are saying, that would be a great start.

Also, and just a side note, walking/running doesn't relate to electronics if they are used within their specifications. They may offer slightly more impedance depending on the thermal load, but cycling is what causes failures. Even though takes several hundred thousand cycles to really cause a failure due to thermal loading alone. Materials, even cheap ones, don't just break because they were turned on and off even thousands of times. If the device remains saturated and active, the difference in thermal loading is negligible. It would be great if you could post some facts proving otherwise, because until then I'm going to go with what I know, which is real PSU design and component ratings.

Lastly, I said be realistic. Video cards are only flexing their muscle when you are playing games, otherwise they are essentially idling. You will not be playing games 12 hours a day, so your system will not be at "500W" or 80% load very often. If you did that for even an exaggerated 5 hours a day, big deal? The majority of the time the computer is on, unless it is only turned on for gaming, it will be essentially idling unless you are number crunching, which still doesn't use the video cards. You would use 50% or less of a 620W supply all the time except gaming. Stressing it for those few hours is hardly a big deal. It's not like you are over-driving it - it's still in spec.
 

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
13,837
4
0
Originally posted by: JAG87
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Yes, that is great advice! Based on all of the links I posted with factual information, it is definitely a good idea to recommend an 800-1000W PSU. Someone who truly wanted to give good advice would have advised against a PSU in that range, not recommend one. The facts don't lie - no system mentioned in this thread or owned by anyone here, other than a quad SLI system, will draw even CLOSE to 800W from the wall. Not even close.


Why the hell would one advise agains an 850W or a 1000W power supply. Can you please explain to me the base of your logic? what part of a 1000W power supply am I advising against? the price? you know the old saying you get what you pay for? this applies specifically to power supplies.

Its just a fact that with a 500W load, a 300 dollar 1000W power supply will do a better job and will last longer than a 150 dollar 620W power supply. Why? Because the 1000W PSU was built with components that are made to handle 1000W, and thats why it costs more. Not because its "higher wattage". The 620W power supply might have great components too (like the Corsair does), but its still RATED for 620W, and hence with a 500W load you are putting 80% of strain on the power supply, while with a 1000W you are only putting 50% strain. Let me ask you something, would you rather be walking or running? If you had to do it for 12h a day, which one would wear you out and tire you faster? If you can't understand that, then I dont know how the hell you became an engineer.

That argument is flawed. You can't compare a human being to electronics. Your comparison might be a bit more realistic if we were talking about a mechanical part such as a hard drive or a car's engine.

However, It really shouldn't matter if I am "stressing" my power supply as you say. Provided that I am running within the power rating of, for instance, the Corsair 620HX it should last. If it doesn't last at LEAST 5 years, I get a replacement.

Note from Corsair website:

"Guaranteed to deliver rated specifications at 50ºC."
"MTBF: 100,000 hours"

Provided that the components used to construct the power supply all were rated to the proper specifications, the power supply should deliver its rated power on average for 100,000 hours.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: PurdueRy

That argument is flawed. You can't compare a human being to electronics. Your comparison might be a bit more realistic if we were talking about a mechanical part such as a hard drive or a car's engine.

However, It really shouldn't matter if I am "stressing" my power supply as you say. Provided that I am running within the power rating of, for instance, the Corsair 620HX it should last. If it doesn't last at LEAST 5 years, I get a replacement.

Note from Corsair website:

"Guaranteed to deliver rated specifications at 50ºC."
"MTBF: 100,000 hours"

Provided that the components used to construct the power supply all were rated to the proper specifications, the power supply should deliver its rated power on average for 100,000 hours.

GURU & Co. seem to be missing the point that electronics do not endure the same type of stress as mechanical devices. Stress due to electromigration (not in the power components, but the ICs used for switching), thermal cycling (heavy cycling, not just heating up and cooling down to power-on temperature variants), silicon breakdown, etc. have nothing to do with any of this, and that is what breaks components in electronics such as PSUs.

All of this talk about quality and differences makes me wonder if any of you guys pushing the PSUs with your agenda even know how a PSU works? Can you even tell me something basic about them like what type of control and converters are used?

Buck? Boost? Flyback? Half-bridge Push-Pull? Full-bridge Push-Pull? I guess I'm just a stupid engineer so I don't have any clue how a real SMPS is designed or where the weaknesses area likely to be found based on both manufacturing and build problems.
 

SerpentRoyal

Banned
May 20, 2007
3,517
0
0
A hard-core gamer rig is probably pulling 100% load 7 hours per day. Rational people don't buy two ultra-high end GPUs and swap them out every six months. You'll get better performance by replacing the single GPU every 6 to 9 months.

A single GPU rig shouldn't use more than 350 to 400 watts under the most demanding condition. Therefore a PSU from a reputable manufacturer with 34A/12V at 50C should do the job for as long you want to keep the PC. Those who claim that this PSU will blow up after a few months of use have no statistical database to support this claim.
 

dclive

Elite Member
Oct 23, 2003
5,626
2
81
Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
A hard-core gamer rig is probably pulling 100% load 7 hours per day. Rational people don't buy two ultra-high end GPUs and swap them out every six months.

Are you saying gamers aren't rational people? :)

100% load SEVEN HOURS PER DAY!? That's insane!
 

Sunbeam65

Junior Member
Aug 16, 2007
17
0
0
JonnyGURU? Is this ?THE? JonnyGURU, goodness! Thanks for responding personally. Your web site has been one of my best resources over the past couple months.

I must say I?m blown away by the effectiveness of this forum. I did not anticipate the sheer number of quality responses, not to mention that it happened within hours of posting my question. Thanks All so much.

Jonny, Thanks for your PSU list and comments. I?m going to take a closer look at the Ultra X3 and Enermax. I notice also that the:sun: Cooler Master seems to turn up on most lists. More importantly its comforting to know that the there are no hidden dangers in the Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W. Your advice is really helpful here particularly in planning how much regular load is going to be placed on the PSU in terms of its power potential.

I?m going to read the Rosewill Xtreme link as soon as I get a chance (I?m at work).

Realistically, of course, I don?t need 1000W. My rig will only be a typicall Intel Dual or Quad Core / NVIDIA 680i SLI Dual 8800 system with at most two hard drives. But I?m new to all this power stuff and my goal is to buy a PSU powerful enough so that it is normally operating in its ?sweet spot.? If my system would really only load a 750W running normally around 60 to 75% of its capacity then that would probably be the best option. (I?m trying not to succumb to the power bragging factor, which causes some people to buy a car with a 650 horsepower engine which they typically drive at 45 miles per hour in LA traffic!) My primary concern is the safety and longevity of the components in my system, not the raw power or quietness.

Thanks also for comments on 80mm vs. 120/140 mm fan. I?m going to be more questioning of the large fan down draft hype. Its interesting to realize that, quieter does not necessarily mean cooler.

JEDIYoda point is a good one, that the Toughpower may be an excellent PSU, but Thermaltake has not been in the PSU market as long as some other companies like Antec and PCP&P and so does not have the proven track record. They do seem, though, to be very strong in several markets such as cases and heat-sink/coolers.

Jonny?s point about noise is interesting, and it made me think. To be honest, I probably should not be nearly so concerned with noise. It?s a bit silly actually, given that fact that my primary game is IL2 Sturmovik. Being a WWII air combat simulator, the loud rumbling of the aircraft engine in my beyerdynamic DT770 headphones is pervasive throughout the game. So some extra noise from a PCP&C Turbo-Cool 1KW (not to mention four or five 120mm fans) in my rig will probably only make the game more ?realistic.? LOL.

BoomerD, thanks for the link to Jonny?s Thermaltake Toughpower 1200W review. It looks familiar, I think I already read it a while ago, but I?m going to go back and take a closer look. Especially at the EasyScope II oscilloscope voltage ripple graphs (which I?m looking at now).

Its interesting that the ripple never goes below 40mV. Is it really possible for ripple over 120 mV to damage components, or would it take a lot more?

It was 2:00 AM when I wrote my original question and it did not occur to me that the Thermaltake Toughpower may have been released after AnandTech?s 2007 buyer?s guide was compiled in May.

Actually I?ve really been enjoying Katzer?s PSU reviews. They are really thorough and he seems to be doing them very regularly. There?s a lot of hard data and the efficiency comparison diagrams are helpful. I like GURU?s though because he actually includes the oscilloscope graphs (as does Artamonov at xbitlabs). Paul Johnson at hardocp also does really thorough reviews (and with high regularity).

I know its probably tough since there are hundreds of PSU?s on the market and every reader wants their options reviewed first. Of course, I personally hope that Christoph looks at the Antec TPQ-1000 next.
 

Sunbeam65

Junior Member
Aug 16, 2007
17
0
0
P.S.

I don't mind reading the heated arguments here, since there seems to be quite a bit of good technical information imbedded in the dialog.
 

dclive

Elite Member
Oct 23, 2003
5,626
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Sounds like you're a candidate for a nice 520 or 620 PSU, if you need a bit of extra headroom. :)
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
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Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
Originally posted by: JAG87
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Yes, that is great advice! Based on all of the links I posted with factual information, it is definitely a good idea to recommend an 800-1000W PSU. Someone who truly wanted to give good advice would have advised against a PSU in that range, not recommend one. The facts don't lie - no system mentioned in this thread or owned by anyone here, other than a quad SLI system, will draw even CLOSE to 800W from the wall. Not even close.


Why the hell would one advise agains an 850W or a 1000W power supply. Can you please explain to me the base of your logic? what part of a 1000W power supply am I advising against? the price? you know the old saying you get what you pay for? this applies specifically to power supplies.

Its just a fact that with a 500W load, a 300 dollar 1000W power supply will do a better job and will last longer than a 150 dollar 620W power supply. Why? Because the 1000W PSU was built with components that are made to handle 1000W, and thats why it costs more. Not because its "higher wattage". The 620W power supply might have great components too (like the Corsair does), but its still RATED for 620W, and hence with a 500W load you are putting 80% of strain on the power supply, while with a 1000W you are only putting 50% strain. Let me ask you something, would you rather be walking or running? If you had to do it for 12h a day, which one would wear you out and tire you faster? If you can't understand that, then I dont know how the hell you became an engineer.

:roll: I can understand what you are saying just fine. A monkey can understand that. Thank you for ignoring my other points in several of my previous posts where I clearly showed facts negating some of your previous statements. The link from the Inquirer in the other thread is very accurate (see above to compare the results - they are the same).

Before we argue about any of this though, I'd like to know how you are so sure of the quality differences. Please post some kind of relevant, factual information regarding the quality of the PSUs you indirectly referenced. If you can prove what you are saying, that would be a great start.

Also, and just a side note, walking/running doesn't relate to electronics if they are used within their specifications. They may offer slightly more impedance depending on the thermal load, but cycling is what causes failures. Even though takes several hundred thousand cycles to really cause a failure due to thermal loading alone. Materials, even cheap ones, don't just break because they were turned on and off even thousands of times. If the device remains saturated and active, the difference in thermal loading is negligible. It would be great if you could post some facts proving otherwise, because until then I'm going to go with what I know, which is real PSU design and component ratings.

Lastly, I said be realistic. Video cards are only flexing their muscle when you are playing games, otherwise they are essentially idling. You will not be playing games 12 hours a day, so your system will not be at "500W" or 80% load very often. If you did that for even an exaggerated 5 hours a day, big deal? The majority of the time the computer is on, unless it is only turned on for gaming, it will be essentially idling unless you are number crunching, which still doesn't use the video cards. You would use 50% or less of a 620W supply all the time except gaming. Stressing it for those few hours is hardly a big deal. It's not like you are over-driving it - it's still in spec.


http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=108088

Lets take a look:

Tier 1 Brands - The Most Powerful And Stable Components On The Market
Enermax Galaxy - umm 850W and 1000W models only
PCP&C TurboCool - 1000W only
PCP&C Silencer >610 - great than 610W? thats the 750W model!
Zippy/Emacs SSL > Geee, no wonder when an 850W costs over 300 dollars
Zippy/Emacs GSM
Zippy/Emacs PSL
Silverstone ZF (Etasis 85/75/56) - Yup the zeus line is pretty damn good, but not modular
Seventeam ST >600 (SSI, V2.91) - I dont really agree with this but meh...
Silverstone OP/DA >700W - Great, another 700W+ choice


Sunbeam65, you should be looking at one of these power supplies. nothing else. You are spending tons of money, your hardware deserves a Tier 1 PSU.