Thermaltake BigWater + Socket 939 = Incompatible?

[jblaty]

First, the specifics.

Here is the water cooling system:
ThermalTake BigWater

Here is the motherboard:
MSI Neo4 Platinum nForce4 Ultra

ThermalTake's claim:
"Universal clips for Intel P4 socket 775, P4, AMD K8, AMD K7, easy to install"

OK, ThermalTake provides the H brackets that are supposed to be bolted through the motherboard through 4 screw holes.

Problem #1: The motherboard has a standard socket 939 retaining clip bolted through the motherboard with 2 bolts. The bottom plate is permanently attached to the motherboard (as far as I can tell). To top that off, there are only 2 screw holes drilled through the motherboard from the manufacturer -- those that hold the retailing clip. So even if I were to find a way remove the retaining clip, I would be forced to drill holes in the motherboard, and I really don't feel comfortable doing that with my brand new expensive motherboard.

Problem #2: Let's say I tried to use the retaining clip with the water block. Well, that's impossible. There is no clip in the kit to hold down the block onto the top of the processor. The hose connectors are at the lengthwise ends of the water block (see picture at the link above), and the spring clip orients in the other direction (for AMD K7 specs).

Problem #3: Let's say I remove the plastic retaining clip and try and use the "universal clips" provided by ThermalTake. Well, that won't work, either. Sure, the H brackets have screw holes that would fit into the through-motherboard mounting bolts. However, orienting the water block 90 degrees will not clear the "notch" in the socket 939 design. In other words, the contact of the waterblock and the CPU won't work properly if I re-orient the waterblock to allow for the installation of the H bracket.

What the "instructions" say is to remove the retaining clip that's there and use the 4 screw holes in the motherboard to mount the waterblock. As you can see above, I'm either a total ditz, or me and ThermalTake have a big engineering problem.

By the way, I ran into a similar issue with a Zalman CNPS7000B on an Asus A8V Rev.2. The retaining clip appears to be permanently mounted on the Asus motherboard, so you can't replace it. Fortunately, I just was able to use the HSF with the existing clip in place, and just screw it in place (no through-motherboard bolts as provided by Zalman). This is due to the fact that Zalman engineered this thing to fit on the standard mounting bracket hole specs. Here is a link as to what I'm talking about:

Zalman CNPS7000B mounting on a socket 939


Can anyone help, here? Has anyone installed this kit on a socket 939? I can't believe that something is supposed to be so simple, yet isn't.

Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Joe

 

[Rickter]

My First post, just joined.

I'm not sure if this will answer your questions but it might help. Here is my problem and planned solution.
I have a Asus A8n-sli, 939 socket. I'm planning to use an FX-55 processor if I ever get it. x*(^%.

My BigWater (BW) issues are similar to yours, 2 screws, Mother board (MB) plate on bottom, etc. If you email me, I can send pics.

Sounds like my MB has the same configuration. I removed the stock plastic bracket and plate. The plate comes off my MB and I pretty sure it is removable from yours. It needs an insulator to separate it from the MB. In addition, there should be some Surface Mount (SM) components under the plate, just under the 939. To make matters worse, these components interfere with the ThermalTake (TK) H bracket. You DO NOT want to put pressure on these SMs.

Here is what I'm planning to do:
1) Remove the stock, plastic bracket and plate.
2) Drill the existing screw holes out in the stock PLATE so the 2" TK screw will slide through, say 0.125 or 1/8". Do not damage the clear insulator or get metal shavings on it.
3) Notch out the plastic bracket to clear the BW water block.
4) Reinstall the PLATE and plastic bracket using TK screws from the bottom of the MB.
5) Use the TK washer and nut to secure the stock assembly with 2 screws. Now you have the threaded portion of the TK screws sticking straight up in the air. (when the MB is upright)
6) Install the CPU with thermal grease.
7) Put the BW water block on to and secure it using the TK "H" bracket. Once you snug it up, use a second
nut to lock it in. Not too tight!!!!! Use the second nut to lock it so vibration will not make it loose.


This operation is somewhat reversible, you could go back to a stock config. You would just have to
remove the whole 9 yards and cut the TK screws to exact length, Reinstall then you could use a stock
heat sink. DO NOT EVER EVER EVER drill holes in the MB.

USE ESD PROTECTION.
RICKTER

 

[drpootums]

did u try to call or email TT about it?

 

[jblaty]

Rickter, thanks for the ideas. I'm going to play around a little more today. It might be as simple as buying new machine screws to the right length, and using the stock plate without the plastic frame.

drpootums: I sent an e-mail to them today (Sunday). I'll try calling them tomorrow (Monday).

 

[Rickter]

I just finished it. Turned out pretty good. Don't have a CPU yet to test it.
I use the screw that came with the TK kit, they work fine in my config.
If you want pics, let me know. Did not call TK. I looked on TK and AMD for tips, None.
I don't suspect they have an answer. I know a little about SMs and don't reccomment the sponge insulator for many reasons.

Rickter

 

[jblaty]

OK. Here's what I did:

1. Went out to Home Depot and bought a package of qty 4 #6-32 x 1-1/2" stainless machine screws.
2. Removed the plastic retaining clip and the 2 screws.
3. Slathered on the Arctic Silver 5 - thin layer on both the water block underside and CPU core (AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 90nm)
4. Used 2 screws to firmly secure the H-bracket supplied by Thermaltake, and going directly into the metal retaining brackets through-motherboard nipples.

It works! However there is one thing that I noticed in looking at the underside. The notch that is used to clear the K7 socket is "lipping" the CPU core on one side. I loosened the screws, and tried to slide the waterblock a little more to one side, but still didn't entirely cover the core. I'm hoping that won't be an issue, as the vast majority of the core is covered, particularly the middle part. The waterblock looks a little off-center in the bracket, due to this slight adjustment.

Anyway, I'm waiting for a Swiftech chipset cooler to come in this week to replace the MSI northbridge fan. Once I get that in, I will hook up the system and fire it up for the first time.

Thanks again for your help.

Joe

 

[drpootums]

I'd try to make sure it's level on ur CPU, that could cause problems later IMO if it's not.

 

[jblaty]

I think it's level...it just sits a little inside one of the edges of the aluminum CPU thermal core cover. I don't know if that's going to be an issue or not. It's probably less than a millimeter.

 

[jblaty]

OK, duh, I figured it out. I pulled the waterblock back off and rotated it 180 degrees. Everything fits perfectly now, it's centered, firm and level. The copper base of the water block covers the entire core cover. The LED wire comes awfully close to a row of capacitors on one side, but I think it will be fine.

 

[akira34]

Post up what your processor temps are like with the unit. Did you try the retail cooler first, or just jump to the bigwater? How much noise is coming from the unit's fan and pump??

 

[jblaty]

akira34:

I didn't buy a retail or other HSF with this CPU, so it's the Big Water. I will post a report here as soon as I have it all hooked up and charged.

However, I'm working with Sidewinder Computers on adding a chipset cooler to this setup. Unfortunately, the tubing that comes with the BigWater seems to be a little "non-standard". I'm trying to get a Swiftech MCW-20K installed in the place of the MSI active HSF. That may take a little bit of doing, so I'll post the results as soon as I get it all worked out.

 

[jblaty]

I wanted to give you an update.

I have received and installed a Koolance chipset cooler. The orientation and making it fit with the PCI Express video card was not easy, but it is finally installed. However, I have another problem.

As I was trying to fill the BigWater pump and reservoir, I stumbled upon a major design flaw. I have posted it, here: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=37&threadid=1509762&enterthread=y

Hopefully, this will get Thermaltake working on a solution.

 

[jblaty]

I thought I'd write a quick post in the last of the BigWater saga. Unfortunately, it does not have a happy ending.

I received a replacement water pump on Wednesday for the broken one. It was a completely different pump, so they must be changing the design based on the issues they're having. However, when I was preparing to install the new pump, I noticed that the acrylic cover on the ThermalTake CPU water block had cracked. I don't know when this happened, but it was clearly cracked in 2 places. This was probably due to torsion on the retaining clip that ThermalTake provided, hence another design flaw. I decided that with 2 major component failures before I even started the system that this was a very bad sign, and I was not about to risk my motherboard and components to a faulty water cooling system.

I have since requested a complete RMA of all of the water system components, and am returning the lot.

I've ordered a Zalman air cooler to replace them, and I'll hopefully have my system running sometime next week after over a month of delays.

Anyway, you may want to take this into account before you purchase the ThermalTake BigWater cooler. Personally, I don't think the low quality justifies the price. Also, I don't believe that the review sites are reporting these problems, and that is very disconcerting.