Thermal pad is wearing off..what should I use next?

[MDesigner]

I sent my motherboard in for a replacement, and bought a backup one. I moved my CPU+heatsink to the backup board.. and I got my new motherboard back in the mail yesterday, and moved the CPU+heatsink back.

All this without re-applying any kind of thermal compound. I'm not experiencing any problems, but I'm sure I should probably re-apply something soon. The thing is, I've read some articles saying how thermal grease like Arctic Silver is not a decent solution because after a short time, the grease is pressed out due to the pressure between the CPU and the heatsink, and is ineffective.

And usually I buy AMD retail boxes, and just use their thermal pad..and it works just fine. But that's pretty worn off now as it's been a few years, and I need to apply something else. Is Arctic Silver OK? If so, which one? (there's a bunch now.. Arctic Silver 3, 5, "Ceramique", etc). Or should I go with thermal pads? And if so, what's a good one and where do I get it?

Thanks..

 

[akira34]

Properly applied thermal grease will work just as well, if not better, than the thermal pads. Where did you read that it's not just as good? IF that was true, they wouldn't be able to sell it since EVERY site would be talking about it being crap and no one would use it. The real key is to PROPERLY apply the thermal grease/compound, not use too little or too much. Too much is probably the worst thing you could do.

 

[Davegod]

actually even the AMD guide says that about grease. but, it's probably on the basis that joe consumer probably wouldnt apply it right, and have less chance of screwing up with a pad.

just go for AS5.

 

[MDesigner]

I probably don't know how to apply it right.. 🙂 I'm not much of a hardware person, beyond just putting together a PC. Any good online tutorials/instructions?

 

[akira34]

AS has it on their site... Print it out when you're ready and go to town... It will have instructions on each processor family for each of their grease line... I picked up some of the ceramic stuff not that long ago. Haven't used it, yet, but I have it on hand for when I need it.

 

[MDesigner]

The instructions on the web site are a bit confusing (for AS5). They tell you to put a small glob of the compound onto the heatsink, then take a tiny dab of that and put it on the corner of the CPU die.

Then it says to tint the heatsink (rub the compound into the heatsink to fill in the tiny grains, then clean off the excess).. but it says with AS5, you can skip tinting. So what are you supposed to do then, just never put the compound on the heatsink in the first place? (obviously you can't just leave a glob of compound on the heatsink like that...)

 

[akira34]

A lot has to do with which processor you're putting it onto. The instruction set for each type of compound has instructions for the different processor families (Athlon XP, Athlon64, P4, etc.). You just need to read through and see where it's telling you what steps can be skipped (if you meet the requirements). I believe that for the Athlon64 you don't NEED to tint the heatsink. I'd imagine it won't do any harm [though].

As for what to use, I just read a blurb in Maximum PC (current newstand edition) about the pads or compound... If the processor comes with a heatsink that has the pad, use the pad. Pads are ONE SHOT/use deals. If you break the connection, you should clean it off and use new compound (or a new pad if you can get one that meets the same spec's).

 

[MDesigner]

Actually, I just remembered I have AS3 at home.. no need to buy AS5 really. I'll just go home and clean up the heatsink & CPU, and put AS3 on it.. good enough.

Thanks

 

[Tiamat]

Somewhat off topic,
Does anybody know if the ShinEtsu pads are any good? I want to place a HS on my southbridge. Since I made the HS out of spare aluminum lying around, there isnt any thermal pad already on it. I want a semi-perminant hold - I dont want to use AS because that would make the SB HS too difficult to remove if I had to (perhaps if it caused problems with the double thick Graphics cards)

 

[Zepper]

Gawd, if you were able to re-use the thermal pad, it was never burned-in (melted) properly. No thermal interface material should be re-used! :roll:
.bh.

Where's the :sun: ?

 

[MDesigner]

Wasn't aware there was a proper way to burn in a thermal pad. It was stuck to the heatsink when I bought the AMD retail CPU.. and I just peeled away a protective layer off the pad and secured the heatsink onto the CPU. There's more to it than that?

My CPU heat is stable at around 50C, which isn't bad, but it's not great. When I get some spare time and the needed chemicals, I'll clean up the heatsink & CPU die and apply AS3 to it.. should drop the temp by maybe 5C or so.

 

[Zepper]

It is my understanding that the pad delivered with the AMD retail packages is a phase-change material. Phase-change means changing from one phase (solid-liquid-gas) to another, in this case solid to liquid. In order to do that, it must be heated to a temp above the normal operating temp of the CPU but not outside its allowable range. For that to occur, the fan on the heatsink must be disconnected for a short period to allow the temp to rise to the needed point.
If you didn't do that, then the TIM material isn't working as designed. Of course, once the melt has occured, you can't put it back and do it again - thus one time use...
. That's why I don't like phase-change (don't like using my CPU for a lab oven 😉 ), though it's great for the big box pushers whose customers aren't supposed to mess with the internals - once it's done, it's done. Whereas the greases should probably be renewed annually.
. The folks around here don't leave their stuff alone long enough to need to think about renewing it...
.bh.

Where's the :sun: ?

 

[akira34]

I'd like to know where you got the info about the thermal pad used in the AMD retail packages. I've NEVER seen ANY instructions with the processor to do ANYTHING like you're saying to just to get it to work properly. I've also not seen ANY instructions with the thermal compounds where it says to renew/reapply it at any point in the future.

I'd REALLY like to know WHERE you got this info so that I can review it. Give up legit links so that we can all read/see it... Otherwise, I think whoever told you this is pulling your pud.

 

[Zepper]

. Well, Oh ye uninformed one, :roll: here ya go...

From this:
"AMD Thermal, Mechanical, and Chassis Cooling Design Guide"
available here: Linkage .

Contains this table of recommended T-I-Ms:

Vendor Interface Material----- Material Type
--------------------------------|-------------------
Bergquist HF225UT----------|--- Phase Change
Chomerics T725-------------|--- Phase Change
Honeywell PCM45-----------|--- Phase Change
Power Devices Powerfilm---|--- Phase Change
ShinEtsu PCS-TC-11T-13---|--- Phase Change
Thermagon T-pcm905C----|---- Phase Change

Since the Chomerics T725 is most commonly used, if you go here: Linkage , and open this .PDF Linkage .

You will see this section:

"T725 Material Form

T725 is a free standing, unsupported film, pink in color, which is supplied between two polyester release liners, see Figure below. As a free film, T725 can achieve a thin bond line (the average distance between the hot component and its heat sink) resulting in a very low thermal impedance connection between the component and its heat sink.
. The surface texture of T725 is inherently tacky and will stick to most surfaces with light to moderate pressure and therefore does not require a pressure sensitive adhesive (PSA). The phase change temperature of T725 is 58°C.
. For complete details on typical material characteristics see THERMFLOW Technical Bulletin 77
(available on www.chomerics.com)

Note the highlighted text! Nyaaa nyaaaa, etc.

I don't know about you, but I like to keep my CPUs below 50 degC and don't buy a heatsink that can't do it under any conditions. If he can reuse his PC-TIM, it wasn't melted properly, period!

.bh.

Where's the :sun: ?

 

[akira34]

I noticed on the first pdf, dated NOVEMBER 2002, that it only referenced processors up to the Athlon 2200... Since the doc is getting damned close to 2 years old, I wouldn't put much (if any) stock in it. I know, for a fact, that AMD has changed their heatsink and fans shipped with retail processors several times since 2002. Come up with some doc's that say the same thing for the current processors and it will lend some weight to your statement... As it stands, I don't put much stock in ~2 year old documentation. Even if people have said items in their systems that long (who keeps their rig that long before doing upgrades?) I wouldn't worry about it. I think most of the regulars here would have changed either their processor, mobo, or heatsink between that time and now (2 years)...

Still, it's possible (however improbable) that they are still using the same stuff. I tend to not believe that with at least the Athlon64 chips since they run MUCH cooler than the older Athlon line. One of the rigs I built has processor temps of between 28C and 32-34C between idle and load. The room it's in is air conditioned (to a comfortable level about 70F or so) during hot days.

 

[Zepper]

Give it up Aki... Phase change temp is phase change temp. T725 is still the most used pad. If you use PC on AMD 64, you just need to leave the fan unhooked a bit longer to get it up to temp... 😉
. You sound like a liberal - can't admit when you're wrong.

.bh.

 

[akira34]

Give up??? NEVERRRR... :laugh: ... You callin me a liberal there tux boy??? Them there are fightin words... :evil: Letme get my gun before we get into it... 😀

To get >58C on today's processors you only need to leave the fan off for a few seconds. Get into the bios on you mobo right away and watch the temps go uuuuuup... If you set the shutdown level to 60C then you won't need to worry about frying your chip (just your fingers if you hit the heatsink too soon after doing that).

Even still, It's not unusual to have good performing stock cooling WITHOUT having to hump the temp up initially. The system I mentioned with the low temps is using the stock (retail) HSF that came with the Athlon64 3200+ processor...
:beer:

 

[Blain]

Get some AS Ceramique. It's thicker and won't run down your MB, like AS 5 will...
Just a joke guys, lighten up. 😛

AS Ceramique will do you right. Thermal paste/grease/goo is only intended to bridge the tiny imperfections between CPU core and HS surface. It's not intended to create a complete barrier between them.

Read this review for some insight 😉

 

[ohiopcgamer]

Oh great I just used Artic Silver 5 when I reinstalled my 3200XP Processor.. and NOW I read your post it is going to run all over the place...

Hopefully it won't. I use just a small amount (matchtip size blob) then smooth it out to a thin layer. My temp has stayed at 39C at basic use and 47C after a heavy Battlefield 1942 match. So far so good!

 

[imported_earthslash]

Same thing happened with my thermal pad from an A64 CPU retail package... I transferred motherboards and tried putting it into another one without removing/reapplying anything. Unfortunately my cpu temp is reaching the upper 40's so I may have to remove it off the heatsink cpu. Can someone suggest something safe to use to remove the thermal interface from an Athlon 64 heatsink and cpu, a link to an online product would be even better.

- Steve

 

[Zepper]

I scrape the majority off with a plastic tool (the knife they give with a Big Breakfast at Mickey D's works very well) so as not to scratch anything. I then remove the remainder with lighter fluid (naphtha) - works great! A final rinse with acetone (one of the store brand nail polish removers at Target is 100% acetone) or rubbing alcohol on a Q-tip wraps it up.
. AFAIC, there are no other products that do the job any better and I've been doing this stuff for 23+ years.
.bh.

Where's the :sun: ?