Muslim nations are growing at faster rates than the West is growing, showing that with the 50-100 year table you have given that their economies will more resemble the West.
.....
Muslim nations are growing at faster rates than the West is growing, showing that with the 50-100 year table you have given that their economies will more resemble the West.
.....
DangerAardvark
Diamond Member
- Oct 22, 2004
- 7,559
- 0
- 0
Scientology is by no means major. And, while Mormonism is relatively modern, it is still a sect of Christianity, regardless of whether other Christians wish to recognize it as such or not. At it's heart, the Mormon church is as conservative as Christianity gets in this country, so though many classify it as a cult, it's not so far from the mainstream as they would have you believe.
Governments could create new religions. The main requirement is that you feed the religious nonsense to people as children before they can think for themselves. Maybe some day far in the future a government will be struggling with how to prevent unrest in massively over populated arcologies. It could just establish a state church and require everyone to attend on pain of not getting your food ration.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
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And what if someone created a religion paying close attention to science and history but without getting into any "fairy tales"? Faith is faith. I think its pretty silly to believe in the Bible verbatim, but to believe in a god or a higher power isn't exactly to ludicrous - science certainly cannot disprove it. We might be able to debunk the Bible, but religion at its very basic and uncorrupted/manipulated foundation is still legit.
So you're already admitting its possible, even if it is the most extreme conditions. However you're dead set and on disbelieving current religions and thus you believe that possibility is impossible so you discount it. You fail to realize the possibility of a new religion based on more simple truths and less on old and failing traditions.
Well why couldn't the be something even more believable than the FSM religion? Something that wasn't created as a joke? The point behind religion is faith in something where there is no proof. Something as simple and boring as just a mere higher power (even if this higher power is a FSM) that pretty much only sparked a big bang and let the cards fall from there isn't a totally new concept. Many scientists believe in a higher power, however there really isn't a centralized/organized religion based on such beliefs (that I know of).
I conclude you really haven't thought this through. I think an argument more along the lines of conflict inherent in human nature would never really allow for a new religion to spark and grow like it has in the past where conditions were ideal would be a better argument against a new major religion, but even then it wouldn't be impossible and thus never happen. People want to get it right and they like to think their ways are the right ways or sometimes the only ways (hence a major reason why there is so much war involving religion)
I can see newer/internet generations breaking away from traditional faith they grew up in (or their parents grew up in) and having a sect diverge from another major religion (most likely Christianity) that goes away from traditional beliefs and bases faith on the present as well as the past yet remains open for the future. Science is great because it allows us to question anything and everything, a religion that would allow for that as well could see success.
Sure, but it probably won't happen the way you think... It will take generations to grow. For instance, you father maybe say, Baptist, but he has a few ideas that he imparts to his sons. These ideas, take root, and eventually get passed on the other sons, grandsons, and such. Mass religion is not a quick thing. Im sure the Romans believed that Christianity was only cult from their view.
As far as our religion of science, hundreds of years from now, many of our theories will seem as silly as a dwarf in our head, causing insanity does to us. Your looking at the small picture and not able to see the grander scheme of how these things evolve.
Im sure of one thing about our generation that the people of the future will look back and laugh at us. How badly we let commercial enterprise shape our scientific views of life.
- Nov 29, 2006
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My argument wasn't about whether or not there are enough people to believe in something, heck, most of them believe in anything if they hear it enough. I never brought the "Bible" into the argument, you did, so that tells me that I struck a nerve.
By admitting, you mean to say that if I were to say that in my lifetime, I'll see my dogs grows opposable thumbs, will hand me beers and play football with me on the weekend sense of admitting of possibility, then sure. Some of us are sane enough to know what's possible, and what's stupidly ridiculous. Not saying that what you're "believing" in is stupidly ridiculous. Yes, there are and can be the possibilities of people creating a following for an ideology or something new (or old) such as earth spirits or moon spirits, but to create a religious infrastructure, complete with all the BS of this guy told this guy such and such, and these other guys wrote it all down, and blah blah... is ludicrous.
That FSM was thrown in there as a joke, and I think you know this. Faith, as you put it, is something that was instilled in you as a child. Because I guarantee you that if you were brought up without the indoctrination to any religions, you wouldn't know who to pray to. I'm not dismissing there's a higher being. I myself proposed a hypothesis a while back that we, our planet, everything that's before you, could very well be an ALIEN experimentation. See how faith works? (to be clear, I'm not a Alienologist
) What we know of the world or universe right now is derived from very primitive reverse engineering methods. We don't know much about it yet, but we're slowly getting there.In the meantime, the old ways of brainwashing is very much done, and I'm saying that it'll never be replicated. I think Harry Potter will have a more faithful followings than anything that will be manufactured. Because it'll be deemed complete and utter BS. Try to print a similar story to any of the "books" that exists, and see if anyone buys into them (some may, because I almost forgot to account for the human stupidity factor, which is why they'll be in cults).
You're right, I haven't calculated all possibilities revolving the circumstance, but I'm damn close as I believe
. The religious wars of today is a product of the brainwashings of the past. Believe me or not, if a lot more people would have the same views about religions as I do, there won't be any wars. We may fight over women, but that's a different debate.Again, nobody mentioned Christianity or the Bible, you did. Don't confused the progress of science with religions.
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,296
- 16
- 81
Now this is just plain idiocy on your part, as science is NOT a religion. It is a methodology for proposing and supporting conclusions based on observation, and when further observation invalidates a given conclusion, new conclusions are proposed and tested.
Science is something that you do, not something you believe in.
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
A famed quotation from a 19th century US Patent Office official (who may never have actually said it): "everything that can he invented has been invented."
It is idiotic, absolutely the stupidest mistake one can make, to predict that something will never happen again in the future. Philosophers in ancient Greece predicted the age of reason and enlightenment would prevail; imagine their incredulity if you told them that a millenium after making this prediction the world would enter the dark ages, a period marked by brutal wars and an almost total abandonment of philosophy and the arts. Just because a trend seems to be irreversible does not make it so.
Let me propose an alternate hypothesis for the future. The political strife of warring factions in the Middle East rages out of control, and explodes into World War 3. The initial waves of bombing and ground troops prove fruitless, and waves of terrorist attacks begin to spread through Western Europe and America. In a desperate effort, nuclear weapons are employed, initially by Western States, though these attacks are mirrored by retaliatory nuclear strikes by radical Islamic factions. The world, plunged into a prolonged nuclear war, sees a large percentage of its population killed or wounded, many left with radiation poisoning to slowly die an agonizing death.
Eventually the war ends. Peace comes only through massive casualties. The global infrastructure is shattered, advances in technology wiped out. The world reverts to a more traditional set of values, much as it did between the 4th century BC, and 1000 AD. New technologies are developed in agriculture, rather than entertainment, to deal with irradiated soil, pushing the farming lifestyle to the forefront. Traditional values, often in the guise of religion, play an increased role in daily lives. New religions spring to life to answer the great question of how we could fall so far. As new religions spring to life, they begin fighting for control, and humanity enters a new dark age as warring religious factions volley for control.
This example is (hopefully) quite ludicrous; yet it is just as likely to happen as your "no new religion will ever gain strength" argument.
It is idiotic, absolutely the stupidest mistake one can make, to predict that something will never happen again in the future. Philosophers in ancient Greece predicted the age of reason and enlightenment would prevail; imagine their incredulity if you told them that a millenium after making this prediction the world would enter the dark ages, a period marked by brutal wars and an almost total abandonment of philosophy and the arts. Just because a trend seems to be irreversible does not make it so.
Let me propose an alternate hypothesis for the future. The political strife of warring factions in the Middle East rages out of control, and explodes into World War 3. The initial waves of bombing and ground troops prove fruitless, and waves of terrorist attacks begin to spread through Western Europe and America. In a desperate effort, nuclear weapons are employed, initially by Western States, though these attacks are mirrored by retaliatory nuclear strikes by radical Islamic factions. The world, plunged into a prolonged nuclear war, sees a large percentage of its population killed or wounded, many left with radiation poisoning to slowly die an agonizing death.
Eventually the war ends. Peace comes only through massive casualties. The global infrastructure is shattered, advances in technology wiped out. The world reverts to a more traditional set of values, much as it did between the 4th century BC, and 1000 AD. New technologies are developed in agriculture, rather than entertainment, to deal with irradiated soil, pushing the farming lifestyle to the forefront. Traditional values, often in the guise of religion, play an increased role in daily lives. New religions spring to life to answer the great question of how we could fall so far. As new religions spring to life, they begin fighting for control, and humanity enters a new dark age as warring religious factions volley for control.
This example is (hopefully) quite ludicrous; yet it is just as likely to happen as your "no new religion will ever gain strength" argument.
Because Mormonism includes Christ and the Bible that makes it a sect of Christianity? Seems almost more like Christianity is a sect of Mormonism from how I understand their beliefs. Lets compare some of the doctrines and see how alike they are?
Christians believe there is only one God (triune in nature)
Mormons believe there are many gods, infact mormons believe they are people who are evolving into gods by following the right rules and will someday have a planet to be god over just as there is a God over the Earth.
Christianity believes that individuals never existed before we were born
Mormon believes there are pre-existing souls who are waiting for a body, and Mormon families need to have lots of children so there will be bodies for those pre-existing souls to slip into and occupy! (invasion of the body snatchers!)
Christianity believes there is one book which is God's revelation of himself and his plan for mankind - the Bible. That book (the Bible) asserts that it is complete and not to be added to.
Mormonism believes in numerous books of revelation of God and his plan to mankind, the Bible being just one of a number of books, including the Book of Mormon and Doctrines & Covenants.
This is just a few things off the top of my head having not looked into the details for a number of years. To the casual observer, Mormonism and Christianity seem similar. They may have similar religious style trappings, but they are very different and have little in common. This is why Christians do not recognize Christianity as a sect. I think there have to be alot more doctrines in common for that to happen. I know something about Mormons as my best friend in High School was a mormon who converted to Christianity and I had done some reading up on it in my college years.
I guess it depends on how you define mainstream. I would define it as something generally accepted by the public at large. Hmm... guess I'll have to google that term
I think we can say that Mormonism comes from Christianity and is HEAVILY influenced by Christian elements....but is still a distinct religion. Much like Bahai (I hate really saying "offshoots" in terms of religion, because it gives the idea that if you follow the source of offshoots then you have the "true" religion...which I DON'T advocate) is an offshoot of Islam, but is still seen to be a sect of Islam, but its own beliefs.
GagHalfrunt
Lifer
- Apr 19, 2001
- 25,284
- 1,998
- 126
"This so called new religion is nothing but a pack of weird rituals and chants designed to take away the money of fools. Let us say the Lord's prayer 40 times, but first let's pass the collection plate." ~ Reverend Lovejoy
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