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There will be chaos in Bama tonight

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yh125d said:
More ignorance. 27-3 Nonconference record? 4 teams in the final AP, #3/11/16/19? 8/10 teams ranked in AP at some point? Yeah, the Big 12 is having a terrible year
Click to expand...

LOL.

Who exactly did the Big 12 beat OOC this year? Yeah that 27-3 is a meaningless stat, when the only quality win is over TCU who has back doored their way into a BCS game.

And rankings "throughtout" the season means shit because pre-season rankings are a joke. A&M, Florida, et al at 6-6/7-5 who were ranked in the top 10 this season prove that.
 
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SP33Demon said:
OSU would get murdered. Who, on their 100+ ranked defense is going to stop Trent Richardson? Lulz, it'd be embarrassing. Bama's pass D should be able to get a couple punts in a shootout. OK St, no way no how no chance against Bama's O-Line + Heisman winner (Trent Richardson IF Luck is shunned).

Iowa St ran all over OK State so think of that game magnified by 100 vs Richardson. It'd be ugly. IOWA FCKING STATE.

EDIT: 190-FCKING-TWO rushing yards by IOWA FCKING STATE.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=313220066

Trent would be drooling to play them.

The only thing, like I said before, worthy of seeing with OK ST vs LSU is LSU's susceptibility to good aerial attacks like when WVU absolutely lit them up for 450+, and considering that Holgorson (WVU) taught Weeden (OK St) that offense last year.
Click to expand...

OSU's defense is ranked 61st, not 100+. And even at that point, way underrated. Lets see what the OSU defense has done throughout the year when facing top 25 offenses in some category.

Arizona - 3rd in passing yards. They gave up nothing in the first half, harassed Foles all night, held them to 41 yards rushing, and didn't give up a passing TD til garbage time in the 4th quarter.

Tulsa - 24th rushing, 41st passing. In a super late game not starting til after midnight, they held Tulsa to 2 FGs in the first half, had the game in the bag up 45-6 with 9 minutes left in the 3rd quarter before their substitutes gave them 4 TDs while their starters napped on the sidelines.

Texas A&M - 18th passing, 21st rushing. Had a pretty shaky first half, giving up 20 while the offense had major struggles and only got a field goal. In the second half they came out to play, got 4 takeaways, made stops when they needed to, and preserved the comeback by only giving up 7 in the second half

Texas - 19th rushing. Picked off of Ash twice, got another fumble, and held the Longhorns to 24 points with over 39 minutes of possession

Missouri - 12th rushing. Picked off Franklin 3 times, rolled to an easy win

Baylor - 5th passing, 18th rushing. Probably the best performance of the season against the best, most balanced offense they faced. A first half shutout, only a FG in the 3rd, against one of the nations best offense and its best player? Giving griffin only his 3rd and 4th interception of the season, and recovering 3 more fumbles? An awesome performance here, through and through.

Texas Tech - 6th passing. A shutout (TT's 6 points came from OSU's offense, they even stopped the 2pt conversion. Not only that, Texas Tech Never even made it to the red zone. Kept Doege 175 yards under his average

Oklahoma - 4th passing. I think we all know what happened last night.



Oklahoma State's D gets a bad rep because of its style. Bend but don't break philosophy is rather a lot different than the traditional SEC style. Not to mention that OSU has been #1-5 pretty much all year in takeaways and turnover margin.

A lot of people talk about how many yards they give up, but that too has an explanation. The average scoring offense ranking of teams on OSU's schedule? ~37th in the FBS. The average ranking of the offenses LSU and Alabama have faced? 67th for LSU and 76th for Alabama. It's pretty easy to keep people out of the end-zone when the teams you play don't have much offense at all.

But probably moreso telling of why OSU gives up lots of yards? Their defense simply plays way more than others. They've played over 396 minutes through 12 games. Alabama's D? 328 minutes. OSU's defense has played 2 long games more than Bama.
 
And with everyone spouting meaningless stats. Here is another one.

7. The number of times Alabama held an opponent to 7 or less.
1. The number of times OkSt held an opponent to 7 or less.
21. The largest score given up by Alabama.
45. The largest score given up by OkSt.
 
Wreckem said:
And with everyone spouting meaningless stats. Here is another one.

7. The number of times Alabama held an opponent to 7 or less.
1. The number of times OkSt held an opponent to 7 or less.
21. The largest score given up by Alabama.
45. The largest score given up by OkSt.
Click to expand...

Those 7 teams?

Kent State
North Texas
Vanderbilt
Ole Miss
Tennessee
LSU
Mississippi State

Not exactly the offensive elite of the nation

Teams OSU has held to 7 points or less before garbage time

Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Baylor
Arizona

Some pretty good offenses there friend

21 - points scored on Alabama at home by an FCS team. Laughable.

45 - Points scored by Kansas State. I'll have to cede you this one. When you play a tough physical running team like Kansas State, your front seven has to play lights out to stop them. Ours didn't. Luckily our offense got the job done.
 
Wreckem said:
LOL.

Who exactly did the Big 12 beat OOC this year? Yeah that 27-3 is a meaningless stat, when the only quality win is over TCU who has back doored their way into a BCS game.

And rankings "throughtout" the season means shit because pre-season rankings are a joke. A&M, Florida, et al at 6-6/7-5 who were ranked in the top 10 this season prove that.
Click to expand...

Big 12 wins over 6+ win teams:
TCU
Louisiana Lafayette
Tulsa (2)
Ball State
Florida State
Miami (FL)
Eastern Kentucky
BYU
UCLA
Southern Methodist
Northern Iowa (FCS)
Iowa
Nevada
Northern Illinois
 
yh125d said:
But probably moreso telling of why OSU gives up lots of yards? Their defense simply plays way more than others. They've played over 396 minutes through 12 games. Alabama's D? 328 minutes. OSU's defense has played 2 long games more than Bama.
Click to expand...

Because OSU can't keep an offense off the field and Bama shuts them down 3 and out every time.

You really have to be joking. 9, NINE, of their games they gave up over 24 points. NINE.

I'm sorry, you can't say a team is "better than the stats make them out to be" when they bleed points every week.

Giving up 33, 34, 45, 31 does not make you a top rated defense. There's nothing you can smooth talk your way into making me believe. Alabama would run all over OSU if they played each other.
 
Of the 2 computer results released, Bama is #2 and OkSt is #3. There is another that is expected to give Alabama #2.

What that means is OkSt and Bama have split the computers.

OKSt needs be #2 in the Harris Poll by a fairly significant margin to get into the BCS title game. The odds of that happening are slim to none.
 
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LikeLinus said:
Because OSU can't keep an offense off the field and Bama shuts them down 3 and out every time.

You really have to be joking. 9, NINE, of their games they gave up over 24 points. NINE.

I'm sorry, you can't say a team is "better than the stats make them out to be" when they bleed points every week.

Giving up 33, 34, 45, 31 does not make you a top rated defense. There's nothing you can smooth talk your way into making me believe. Alabama would run all over OSU if they played each other.
Click to expand...


I never said they were a top rated defense, I said they are underrated. They are a lot better than their 61st scoring defense ranking suggests. I'd say they're definitely top 25 overall. Why? They're decent in the red-zone, get tons of takeaways all over (ask any coach, if he could grab 5 turnovers or force 5 3 and outs, which he'd take), have proven capable of shutting down high powered offenses both on the ground and through the air, and loads of those points came IN GARBAGE TIME, when OSU was leading by 3TDs or more. If you're up by 35, who cares if they score a couple times? They're not gonna keep their starters out there for 4 quarters to hold Baylor and Oklahoma to 3 points just for bragging rights.


The biggest misconception is how people blindly compare scores between the SEC and Big 12 and completely ignoring how both leagues are VERY different in just about every phase of the game. Big 12 teams give up so many points because the offenses they play can score on just about anybody out there. SEC teams don't typically score that high because the defenses they play are always pretty dang tough. In the SEC, if you win by two touchdowns, that's a big win. In the big 12, it's not a big win unless you lead by 21 or more, because just about every team in this league is capable of getting on a hot streak and scoring 20+ in just a couple minutes.

Some Big 12 idiot could say "But Bama only put 24 points on mississippi state! Their offense stinks!", or some SEC idiot could say "OSU gave up 24 points to missouri! Their D is worthless!", and they're both blithering idiots.

You can't compare only scores that way and ignore how they got there. If you did, then OSU's 66-6 beating of texas tech looks better than anything bama has done all season, and they'd be wrong.

24 points is a lot in the SEC. In the Big 12, 24 points is nothing. Even 2-10 Kansas averaged 22 points this season
 
yh125d said:
I never said they were a top rated defense, I said they are underrated. They are a lot better than their 61st scoring defense ranking suggests. I'd say they're definitely top 25 overall. Why? They're decent in the red-zone, get tons of takeaways all over (ask any coach, if he could grab 5 turnovers or force 5 3 and outs, which he'd take), have proven capable of shutting down high powered offenses both on the ground and through the air, and loads of those points came IN GARBAGE TIME, when OSU was leading by 3TDs or more. If you're up by 35, who cares if they score a couple times? They're not gonna keep their starters out there for 4 quarters to hold Baylor and Oklahoma to 3 points just for bragging rights.


The biggest misconception is how people blindly compare scores between the SEC and Big 12 and completely ignoring how both leagues are VERY different in just about every phase of the game. Big 12 teams give up so many points because the offenses they play can score on just about anybody out there. SEC teams don't typically score that high because the defenses they play are always pretty dang tough. In the SEC, if you win by two touchdowns, that's a big win. In the big 12, it's not a big win unless you lead by 21 or more, because just about every team in this league is capable of getting on a hot streak and scoring 20+ in just a couple minutes.

Some Big 12 idiot could say "But Bama only put 24 points on mississippi state! Their offense stinks!", or some SEC idiot could say "OSU gave up 24 points to missouri! Their D is worthless!", and they're both blithering idiots.

You can't compare only scores that way and ignore how they got there. If you did, then OSU's 66-6 beating of texas tech looks better than anything bama has done all season, and they'd be wrong.

24 points is a lot in the SEC. In the Big 12, 24 points is nothing. Even 2-10 Kansas averaged 22 points this season
Click to expand...

Look, I know it's only one game, but they played Iowa State late in the season and gave up almost 200 yards on the ground which led to 37 points. Be honest and ask yourself how many yards Alabama would put up on them.
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/1040/p2
Ok State = #84 in Rush Defense, allowing an average of 180 yards per game.

Now, ask yourself if Alabama's Pass Defense could stop OK St's passing attack:
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/1041

Alabama = #1 Pass D in the country @ 116 yards allowed per game through the air. Come on man, it's time to face reality as to who the better overall team is on paper. Trent Richardson would stomp a mudhole in the ass of OK St so bad your offense would barely have a chance to take the field. And when the offense did take the field, they'd have to beat the #1 Pass Defense in the nation. /thread
 
SP33Demon said:
Look, I know it's only one game, but they played Iowa State late in the season and gave up almost 200 yards on the ground which led to 37 points. Be honest and ask yourself how many yards Alabama would put up on them.
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/1040/p2
Ok State = #84 in Rush Defense, allowing an average of 180 yards per game.

Now, ask yourself if Alabama's Pass Defense could stop OK St's passing attack:
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/1041

Alabama = #1 Pass D in the country @ 116 yards allowed per game through the air. Come on man, it's time to face reality as to who the better overall team is on paper. Trent Richardson would stomp a mudhole in the ass of OK St so bad your offense would barely have a chance to take the field. And when the offense did take the field, they'd have to beat the #1 Pass Defense in the nation. /thread
Click to expand...

Of course they have the "best" pass defense in the country, only one team they played has a clue how to throw the ball. Do you seriously not understand how much easier it is to defend against crappy offenses?

It's wasted effort talking about who *would* do what to whom if two teams played. We'll never find out. Sure, Richardson *probably* would run all over us. But we *probably* would get Mccarron to throw 3 picks. We'd *probably* expose just how overrated Bamas defense is by scoring at least 35. Bama would *probably* harass Weeden all night and keep Randle and Smith from getting too much momentum on the ground. It would *probably* be a toss up. But it doesn't matter, because it's not going to happen
 
yh125d said:
I never said they were a top rated defense, I said they are underrated. They are a lot better than their 61st scoring defense ranking suggests. I'd say they're definitely top 25 overall. Why? They're decent in the red-zone, get tons of takeaways all over (ask any coach, if he could grab 5 turnovers or force 5 3 and outs, which he'd take), have proven capable of shutting down high powered offenses both on the ground and through the air, and loads of those points came IN GARBAGE TIME, when OSU was leading by 3TDs or more. If you're up by 35, who cares if they score a couple times? They're not gonna keep their starters out there for 4 quarters to hold Baylor and Oklahoma to 3 points just for bragging rights.


The biggest misconception is how people blindly compare scores between the SEC and Big 12 and completely ignoring how both leagues are VERY different in just about every phase of the game. Big 12 teams give up so many points because the offenses they play can score on just about anybody out there. SEC teams don't typically score that high because the defenses they play are always pretty dang tough. In the SEC, if you win by two touchdowns, that's a big win. In the big 12, it's not a big win unless you lead by 21 or more, because just about every team in this league is capable of getting on a hot streak and scoring 20+ in just a couple minutes.

Some Big 12 idiot could say "But Bama only put 24 points on mississippi state! Their offense stinks!", or some SEC idiot could say "OSU gave up 24 points to missouri! Their D is worthless!", and they're both blithering idiots.

You can't compare only scores that way and ignore how they got there. If you did, then OSU's 66-6 beating of texas tech looks better than anything bama has done all season, and they'd be wrong.

24 points is a lot in the SEC. In the Big 12, 24 points is nothing. Even 2-10 Kansas averaged 22 points this season
Click to expand...

Ever heard the saying "Defense wins championships".

The two best D team in all of the land are playing in the national championship. Maybe the Big 12 doesn't care if they just "give up points for no reason", but anyone with knowledge of how the game, polls and voting knows that you damn well don't want to just give up points for no reason. You want to win by the largest margin of victory and you want to shut the teams down. THAT is why the SEC has two teams playing for the NC.

Saying OSU has a top 25 D and they were ranked in the 60's is STUPID. PERIOD. The stats show they are not a top 25. Your team just doesn't give up a bunch of points for the hell of it. That means they have no PRIDE in their game. Laziness is all it is. You're not playing for the championship, so the argument is done. The voters AND the computers said Alabama deserves the shot. It's over.
 
LikeLinus said:
Ever heard the saying "Defense wins championships".

The two best D team in all of the land are playing in the national championship. Maybe the Big 12 doesn't care if they just "give up points for no reason", but anyone with knowledge of how the game, polls and voting knows that you damn well don't want to just give up points for no reason. You want to win by the largest margin of victory and you want to shut the teams down. THAT is why the SEC has two teams playing for the NC.

Saying OSU has a top 25 D and they were ranked in the 60's is STUPID. PERIOD. The stats show they are not a top 25. Your team just doesn't give up a bunch of points for the hell of it. That means they have no PRIDE in their game. Laziness is all it is. You're not playing for the championship, so the argument is done. The voters AND the computers said Alabama deserves the shot. It's over.
Click to expand...

So we put teams in championship games based on old sayings? Oh, forgive me, I wasn't aware.

Continually, morons blindly look at the stats and proclaim unanimously who's better without putting an iota of thought into how those stats were obtained. I've already shown how OSU's defensive stats are skewed negatively by the drastically more effective offenses they face, their playing of backups (which EVERY team does when games are effectively won. It's called getting your backups/underclassmen practice while keeping your starters protected from injury/overwork, not laziness. If you can't grasp that concept, THAT is whats stupid), and them being on the field for 6 more minutes a game than the "best" defense in the nation.

Not to mention being #2 at +20 in turnover margin (behind only LSU at +22, with one less game), #8 in pass efficiency defense, T-#9 in red zone defense, T-#24 in tackles for lossT-#30 in sacks. All of those are very important defensive categories, and OSU is great in a few, and pretty good in a couple more. So yeah, I'd say they're a lot better than the 61st ranking they have. And if you're the kind of person who doesn't know anything more than that this page http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/333/alabama-crimson-tide says alabama has the best defense, than I guess there's nothing I can say to change your mind.
 
yh125d said:
Of course they have the "best" pass defense in the country, only one team they played has a clue how to throw the ball. Do you seriously not understand how much easier it is to defend against crappy offenses?

It's wasted effort talking about who *would* do what to whom if two teams played. We'll never find out. Sure, Richardson *probably* would run all over us. But we *probably* would get Mccarron to throw 3 picks. We'd *probably* expose just how overrated Bamas defense is by scoring at least 35. Bama would *probably* harass Weeden all night and keep Randle and Smith from getting too much momentum on the ground. It would *probably* be a toss up. But it doesn't matter, because it's not going to happen
Click to expand...

You could hypothesize things all night, but I'm the only one using facts. Alabama is #1 in the Pass D, fact. OK St is #84 in Rush D, fact. Trent Richardson is a RB Heisman candidate, fact. The difference between us is that you're trying to deflect facts because your argument is paper thin.

Let's add more facts to this debate:
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/1040

Alabama is also number 1 in Rush D. Just to humor myself, you claim that Bama has faced "one good passing team". Yet, they are still stuffing the run and pass better than LSU, fact. OK State isn't even #1 in their conference in total offense nor passing offense, fact. And this is in a weaker conference than the SEC.

Only pure homerism would allow you to think that your team could beat the top Pass and Rush D in the country in the best conference in the country. It would be a nightmare matchup in the secondary for OK St with NFL 2012 projected first rounders CB Kirkpatrick on Blackmon and S Barron covering deep routes. And that's not considering OLB Upshaw covering the middle. Keep in mind, all they need are a couple of 3 and outs for Bama to completely exploit OK St's horrible Rush D by playing power football with Trent Richardson (top 5 NFL 2012 pick).

Where are the facts backing up your logic?
 
SP33Demon said:
You could hypothesize things all night, but I'm the only one using facts. Alabama is #1 in the Pass D, fact. OK St is #84 in Rush D, fact. Trent Richardson is a RB Heisman candidate, fact. The difference between us is that you're trying to deflect facts because your argument is paper thin.

Let's add more facts to this debate:
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/1040

Alabama is also number 1 in Rush D. Just to humor myself, you claim that Bama has faced "one good passing team". Yet, they are still stuffing the run and pass better than LSU, fact. OK State isn't even #1 in their conference in total offense nor passing offense, fact. And this is in a weaker conference than the SEC.

Only pure homerism would allow you to think that your team could beat the top Pass and Rush D in the country in the best conference in the country. It would be a nightmare matchup in the secondary for OK St with NFL 2012 projected first rounders CB Kirkpatrick on Blackmon and S Barron covering deep routes. And that's not considering OLB Upshaw covering the middle. Keep in mind, all they need are a couple of 3 and outs for Bama to completely exploit OK St's horrible Rush D by playing power football with Trent Richardson (top 5 NFL 2012 pick).

Where are the facts backing up your logic?
Click to expand...

I've given dozens of facts already, are even bothering to read the thread? I was the one pointing out how useless it is to hypothesize about things that won't have a chance to happen, not bringing it up. What does Richardsons Heisman candidacy have to do with any of this? RG3 is a Heisman candidate as well, but Baylor doesn't have anything to do with the conversation.

Yeah, Alabama HAS only played one team who knows how to throw the ball. that makes it easy to get a #1 passing defense. The pass yardage rankings of teams bama played are:

110th
96th
89th
13th (arkansas)
88th
98th
107th
48th (tennessee, while playing without tyler bray, the only other SEC QB who can throw the ball properly)
105th
92nd
106th

In case you weren't listening, those are all facts. Stuffing the run and pass better than LSU? Sure, but not by much, and they didn't play high powered offenses like Oregon and WVU like LSU did either. Also facts.

DB matchups? Please. You JUST talked about how hypothesizing is dumb yet here you are doing it yourself


You are so full of shit it's coming out of your ears.
 
zinfamous said:
yep.

except you are wrong:

NCAA basketball is the greatest game in sports.
Click to expand...

The Speaker of the House and I both agree on this:

tumblr_lvnea7zbxg1qznj5do1_500.jpg


From the Kentucky - North Carolina game yesterday. The outcome was awesome!!! :biggrin:
 
yh125d said:
I've given dozens of facts already, are even bothering to read the thread? I was the one pointing out how useless it is to hypothesize about things that won't have a chance to happen, not bringing it up. What does Richardsons Heisman candidacy have to do with any of this? RG3 is a Heisman candidate as well, but Baylor doesn't have anything to do with the conversation.

Yeah, Alabama HAS only played one team who knows how to throw the ball. that makes it easy to get a #1 passing defense. The pass yardage rankings of teams bama played are:

110th
96th
89th
13th (arkansas)
88th
98th
107th
48th (tennessee, while playing without tyler bray, the only other SEC QB who can throw the ball properly)
105th
92nd
106th

In case you weren't listening, those are all facts. Stuffing the run and pass better than LSU? Sure, but not by much, and they didn't play high powered offenses like Oregon and WVU like LSU did either. Also facts.

DB matchups? Please. You JUST talked about how hypothesizing is dumb yet here you are doing it yourself


You are so full of shit it's coming out of your ears.
Click to expand...

The SEC has won 5 about to be 6 straight national titles.

To say SEC teams are only good because they are SEC teams/their defense are only good because they don't play passing teams, history shows that is hogwash.

Not only does the Big 12 not beat the SEC in BCS games. The Big 12 has the worst winning percentage in BCS games.
 
yh125d said:
I've given dozens of facts already, are even bothering to read the thread? I was the one pointing out how useless it is to hypothesize about things that won't have a chance to happen, not bringing it up. What does Richardsons Heisman candidacy have to do with any of this? RG3 is a Heisman candidate as well, but Baylor doesn't have anything to do with the conversation.

Yeah, Alabama HAS only played one team who knows how to throw the ball. that makes it easy to get a #1 passing defense. The pass yardage rankings of teams bama played are:

110th
96th
89th
13th (arkansas)
88th
98th
107th
48th (tennessee, while playing without tyler bray, the only other SEC QB who can throw the ball properly)
105th
92nd
106th

In case you weren't listening, those are all facts. Stuffing the run and pass better than LSU? Sure, but not by much, and they didn't play high powered offenses like Oregon and WVU like LSU did either. Also facts.

DB matchups? Please. You JUST talked about how hypothesizing is dumb yet here you are doing it yourself


You are so full of shit it's coming out of your ears.
Click to expand...

So let's see, you just basically claimed that Bama's two first rounders out of the secondary + OLB mean nothing when all OK St has is Blackmon in the first round. Whoopdedoo! We'll just act like you forgot to read that.

Next, you are claiming that Bama's #1 Pass and Rush defense in the best conference mean nothing. You are so adamant about this that you've even listed the pass rankings of the teams that Bama has faced. Here's a clue: If you absolutely stuff the run, it makes it very easy to defend the pass. It's even easier with a one dimensional team like OK St when you have the NFL first round firepower in the secondary that Bama brandishes. You have to be joking if you think your "high powered" spread would hold a candle to Bama's D (better than LSU last I checked). Even Iowa State's defense embarrassed your "high powered" offense.

Hell, LSU would embarrass your one dimensional offense even after their secondary was embarrassed by WVU. And I'll even give you that LSU could be on par with Bama since they played a couple better teams.

Summary: OK St would be embarrassed by either Bama or LSU's defense, because it would expose their one dimensional passing attack. Things change when your 43rd (lol) ranked rushing "attack" doesn't get its 170 yards anymore, such as opening up the passing game. If you think OK St would even get 100 on the ground vs Bama, you are delusional. The numbers/facts, which are the only empirical evidence we have to go on, all point to Bama holding the clear advantage in such a matchup.
 
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Snooze fest? Sure...best 2 defenses in the country? I think so...I actually don't mind that these 2 are having a rematch for the BCS Championship. I do think the 2 best teams in the country are playing in this game & that's how it should be.

Are there a lot of things wrong with the BCS? Absolutely...I would rather have 1 or 2 fewer regular season games & a playoff configuration, but this is what we have for now. I wouldn't mind seeing Bama win this one...Shake things up in the BCS...that's always fun...
 
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