There is no way but surrender for America in Iraq...

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Yeah, what about them? It's not like the US gave a flying fvck until Germany and Italy declared war on them.

Actually the government did. The public didn't really. Why get into another mess again? The US supported the allies indirectly anyways.

Thankfully some good men were fighting to rescue my forefathers long before the US did anything, remember Roosevelts words "Europes war is not OUR war".

Yes, to get re-elected. It's commonly known that Roosevel WANTED to get into the war, but the public did not. You've ignored this fact repeatedly. Either way, at least the US got into the war that should have never happened. Don't see how that is a negative.

I know you want to act like the US were all heroic back then but the truth is they didn't give a sh!t until they got attacked, and even then, Germany and Italy had to declare war for the US to get involved in Europe.

That's why Roosevelt wanted to invade and why the US greatly helped out the allies indirectly? Even Marshall Zhukov admitted that Russia could not have sustained the war without US help.

BTW, the US also saved Western Europe from communism.

And stop acting so silly. Nobody does anything just for only heroics.

So by my definition, the US did diddly squat until they damn well had to, and we do have a democracy in Germany today. (actually, the nazi party regrouped and is the religious right party of today, you know, the same party that holds power in the US)

But maybe you know more about this than i do, if so, please explain.

You went completely off topic from what I believe alchemize was trying to say. Germany did not become a democracy overnight after the war and has banned a party.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yes, I'm sure klixxer must support their right to be represented in elections in Germany.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's illegally a member 😀

Enough is enough. You have expressed your dislike of illegal immigration in the US, yet it would be far from me to even suggest that you like the idea of murdering all of them and burning their corpses, which is what you are suggesting.

I have told you this before, my grandparents on my mothers side barely escaped the nazis, still you keep calling me a nazi. Several of the people who would still be alive, friends and relatives were not so lucky, not that that matters to you though, to you it is just a word to throw around.

You little POS, you should be ashamed, i am sure your parents are.

lol, I've posted several times on this forum that I support illegal immigration.

You've called me horrible words. You've wished for me to die. Told me to f*ck off and die. I don't mind.

Thanks for your personal history.

Actually you have posted your opinion AGAINST illegal immigration several times, do i REALLY have to look it up?

You called me a racist, but i am no racist, you have called me a nazi, but i am no nazi, what have i called you?

Then I guess I changed my mind. I've said why I can understand why people don't want it. My opinion even went more towards allowing illegal immigration ever since I read a report by USC that shows over 80% of illegal immigrants reach middle class and own a home, and that was months ago. I've posted about it several times in P&N and even OT. My ideal position would be no illegal immigration but massively increase legal immigration so people can live more freely in the US with no worries.

I believe you're a racist simply because you support ethnicity-based legislation. You basically agree with the politics of far-right racist political parties. You've called me plenty of fancy insults like "numbnuts." You've also called me a racist against a fictitious race, wished me to die, etc. Anyways, it was a joke and I didn't definitely call you a Nazi (just said I wouldn't be surprised based on your support for ethnicity-based legislation). Stop trying to become a martyr.

I support ethnicity based legislation? ok, when did i ever do that, i agree with far right racist political parties? when did i do that?

Oh, i know, Slovenia, right, i asked you to allow everyone to be an american citizen if they are in your country today, you said no, well, so did they, and you are no racist but they all are? Especially since all of then CAN BECOME CITIZENS IF THEY LEARN THE LANGUAGE! It's kinda automatic, most of them are citizens today so your argument about it is pretty much gone, besides, this is the NEW europe that the US praises on a daily basis.

For some reason i always get caught in these debates, and it is always you and Rabid against me.

Well, i am tired of being called a nazist and racist.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yes, I'm sure klixxer must support their right to be represented in elections in Germany.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's illegally a member 😀

Enough is enough. You have expressed your dislike of illegal immigration in the US, yet it would be far from me to even suggest that you like the idea of murdering all of them and burning their corpses, which is what you are suggesting.

I have told you this before, my grandparents on my mothers side barely escaped the nazis, still you keep calling me a nazi. Several of the people who would still be alive, friends and relatives were not so lucky, not that that matters to you though, to you it is just a word to throw around.

You little POS, you should be ashamed, i am sure your parents are.

lol, I've posted several times on this forum that I support illegal immigration.

You've called me horrible words. You've wished for me to die. Told me to f*ck off and die. I don't mind.

Thanks for your personal history.

Actually you have posted your opinion AGAINST illegal immigration several times, do i REALLY have to look it up?

You called me a racist, but i am no racist, you have called me a nazi, but i am no nazi, what have i called you?

Then I guess I changed my mind. I've said why I can understand why people don't want it. My opinion even went more towards allowing illegal immigration ever since I read a report by USC that shows over 80% of illegal immigrants reach middle class and own a home, and that was months ago. I've posted about it several times in P&N and even OT. My ideal position would be no illegal immigration but massively increase legal immigration so people can live more freely in the US with no worries.

I believe you're a racist simply because you support ethnicity-based legislation. You basically agree with the politics of far-right racist political parties. You've called me plenty of fancy insults like "numbnuts." You've also called me a racist against a fictitious race, wished me to die, etc. Anyways, it was a joke and I didn't definitely call you a Nazi (just said I wouldn't be surprised based on your support for ethnicity-based legislation). Stop trying to become a martyr.

I support ethnicity based legislation? ok, when did i ever do that, i agree with far right racist political parties? when did i do that?

Oh, i know, Slovenia, right, i asked you to allow everyone to be an american citizen if they are in your country today, you said no, well, so did they, and you are no racist but they all are? Especially since all of then CAN BECOME CITIZENS IF THEY LEARN THE LANGUAGE! It's kinda automatic, most of them are citizens today so your argument about it is pretty much gone, besides, this is the NEW europe that the US praises on a daily basis.

For some reason i always get caught in these debates, and it is always you and Rabid against me.

Well, i am tired of being called a nazist and racist.

The Slovenian vote was instituted by a well-known far-right racist political party which scared the population into voting for it. I know you're the most educated person on this forum, but why do you keep bringing up the irrelevant comparison with the US? People were singled out based on their ethnicity.

If you're tired of being called a racist, the solution is simple. Don't be one.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Todd33
Relax, they are letting Al-Sader run and he was a "terrorist" for months while he led the insurection and killed Amrican soldiers. They flip-flopped on that one.

Well i don't really care about that, i am not going to say that the left or the right is right, when it down to US internal politics i have no say in it, let them flip-flop or whatever is the buzz word this week, i really couldn't care less, what i DO care about though is what is going on in Iraq with the elections, if this isn't a democratic election where ALL parties are allowed, then this mission has been for NOTHING imo.

Um, that was Bremer, which had to come from the White House.

You don't get my stance though, i don't care who does what, left or right, i'm not American so i am not part of the left-right debate, whoever said what doesn't matter that much to me.

Actions speak for themselves, i'll hold my judgement until the rules are set, i am just saying IF, no matter who is deciding IF, then IF not all parties that are willing to run can run then it is wrong.

That is my point in it's entirity. IF the Baath party isn't allowed to run then the fight for democracy is gone.

OK, more directly, it seems all the members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party were deemed crimminals under the new Iraqi laws and thus will officially not be allowed to run by the law. I suppose someone outside Saddam's Baath party could run under the Baath Party nomer and in that way the party itself would be allowed to participate..................just none of the people affiliated with the Baath party under Saddam.

I don't think you can make laws without a valid elected government so who are to deem them illegal? The US officials or the current US invoked set of government (which changes constantly as some are deemed not friendly enough).

So who deems them criminals in the new Iraqi democracy if they are elected? Or is it so that pretty much anyone who would stand a chance won't enter the elections if they are not US friendly?

These are not questions for you, and neither you nor me will know until the elections are over but it seems to me that if they are not allowed to participate, the election has been fixed and must be declared illegal in a court of law in Iraq based on the rules of democracy (and surely the new constitution of Iraq, whoever gets to write it).

Um, the interim government is/was clear to set laws for Iraq as it saw/sees neccessary. A representative from each province was brought in and they appointed an interim "president".

I would also think that members of this new interim government would declare members of the party which was in dictatorship of Iraq for years, was feared by the people of Iraq, which ran "mock" elections where the only candidate on the ballot was Saddam and whom freely tortured and killed anyone deemed to be opposing Saddam or the party.............

The interim government is not recognized by anyone but the US government and has as much legality as this forum.

You want to pretend they have some legality, ok, go ahead, just don't call it a real election.

We ALL know about those elections, i don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that Saddams Iraq was truly democratic, so can it. What are you saying? "We are just doing the same thing"?

Is that an improvement? Let ALL parties be legal, who the FVCK are you to deem some illegal in THEIR country? I thought this was about freedom and liberation, if you are going to enforce the rules of the Baath party then WTF did you even bother.

Let's backtrack here, no threat, no WMD's no terrorists, torture continued and now no (real) democracy?

Yay for the 900+ dead for nothing, you want to tell their parents what they died for because in the eyes of the world, nothing has been accomplished.

The transfer of authority from the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) to the Iraqi Interim Government took place on 28 June. Iraqis now have full responsibility for governing Iraq. The occupation has come to an end, and the CPA has been dissolved. The UN Security Council unanimously approves the language of the Iraqi Interim Government and it's charter.

Members of the Iraqi Interim Government (IIG), including the President and two Vice-Presidents, assumed their positions immediately upon their inauguration on 28 June, and the Iraqi Governing Council declared itself dissolved. The IIG will continue until the formation of a Transitional Government, after elections have produced the Transitional Assembly by the end of January 2005.

We can now look ahead to seeing our vision for Iraq fulfilled, as set out by the Prime Minister in Spring 2003 and which is shared by the majority of Iraqis: a free, stable and prosperous Iraq at peace with itself, the region and the wider world. It is because we share this ultimate objective with most Iraqis that we believe that the Iraqi people, supported by the international community, can overcome the violent minority who seek to deprive Iraq of its opportunity for a better future.

Powers of the Iraqi Interim Government (IIG)?
The new Iraqi Interim Government (IIG) is sovereign and will enjoy full authority. It governs in accordance with United Nations Security Council resolutions (UNSCRs) and the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL), which was agreed by the former Iraq Governing Council (IGC) in February 2004. This includes a ?Bill of Rights?, which commits the IIG to respect the human rights of all Iraqi citizens. In accordance with the wishes expressed by many Iraqis, the Interim Government, is an un-elected body and therefore has limited powers in certain areas; e.g. it will be for the elected Iraqi Government to take decisions on the new Constitution.

The IIG?s main role is to provide security, promote economic development and prepare for elections. Pending the formation of the Transitional Assembly, the IIG has full powers and can enter into agreements with International Financial Institutions and on debt. However, by signing up to the Annex to the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL), the IIG will not take decisions that prejudice the constitutional process due in 2005. This condition was not imposed by the CPA or the United Nations.

The establishment of the IIG is a major step towards a fully elected government. All Iraqi Ministries are under full Iraqi control.

The Iraqi Interim Government comprises a President (Sunni), two Vice Presidents (Shi'a and a Sunni Kurd), a Prime Minister (Shi'a), a Deputy Prime Minister (Sunni Kurd), and 31 Ministers (5 of which are entirely new posts). The cabinet comprises 15 Shi'a, 9 Sunnis, 5 Kurds, 1 Turkman, and 1 Yezidi, and includes 6 female Ministers. This is the most representative Iraqi government for decades and arises from intensive and wide-ranging consultations in Iraq by UN Secretary General?s Special Adviser, Mr Lakhdar Brahimi.





Now, as for the reasons for the war..............................

As for reasoning, as I said before, go back to the resolution created and passed by President Clinton in 1998 making "Regime Change" the official policy and goal of the USA at any/all costs including military invasion.

Let me condense that message for you "our vision for Iraq", because that is what it all comes down to, the appointees were made by the US, correct?

Are you incouragable? The "appointees" were made by the inerim president after a council of Iraqi doctors and businessmen made referrals of people........it was all done by Iraqis including the appointment of the interim president.

So basically, this is not a democracy and never will be, at least we can agree on that.

It is, and will be as close as any other country including Germany and the USA!

If you would have read my previous post you would realize that i don't give a FVCK if the idea is Clintons or Bushs, i just care about what is happening next.

As does everyone elsel.................no point here...........

From what i see it will just be another puppet regime of the US, it's the fifth one.

Rose colored glasses are distorting your view then.................

So stop the pussyfooting and just come out and say it, it wasn't about WMD's, liberation or freedom, it was about the US wanting another base in the ME.

No, just as the world agreed, Iraq and the world is much better off with Saddam no longer in power...........that includes Germany and France...shall I quote what the respected leaders said word for word?

We know it is true so why beat around the bush with it (no pun intended).

Who is "we" and what do you know exactly? Have you sent the SS to spie on us???😉

No, actually, i didn't send the people who tried to kill my grandparents to spy on you.

Sorry to dissapoint you, maybe you can be the chief of a new holocaust and get me?

 

[RabidMongoose]

I'm not getting into your ridiculous 'racist, not a racist' debate, Klixxer. However, if you state something with faulty logic or an incorrect statement, then expect someone to comment on it.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yes, I'm sure klixxer must support their right to be represented in elections in Germany.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's illegally a member 😀

Enough is enough. You have expressed your dislike of illegal immigration in the US, yet it would be far from me to even suggest that you like the idea of murdering all of them and burning their corpses, which is what you are suggesting.

I have told you this before, my grandparents on my mothers side barely escaped the nazis, still you keep calling me a nazi. Several of the people who would still be alive, friends and relatives were not so lucky, not that that matters to you though, to you it is just a word to throw around.

You little POS, you should be ashamed, i am sure your parents are.

lol, I've posted several times on this forum that I support illegal immigration.

You've called me horrible words. You've wished for me to die. Told me to f*ck off and die. I don't mind.

Thanks for your personal history.

Actually you have posted your opinion AGAINST illegal immigration several times, do i REALLY have to look it up?

You called me a racist, but i am no racist, you have called me a nazi, but i am no nazi, what have i called you?

Then I guess I changed my mind. I've said why I can understand why people don't want it. My opinion even went more towards allowing illegal immigration ever since I read a report by USC that shows over 80% of illegal immigrants reach middle class and own a home, and that was months ago. I've posted about it several times in P&N and even OT. My ideal position would be no illegal immigration but massively increase legal immigration so people can live more freely in the US with no worries.

I believe you're a racist simply because you support ethnicity-based legislation. You basically agree with the politics of far-right racist political parties. You've called me plenty of fancy insults like "numbnuts." You've also called me a racist against a fictitious race, wished me to die, etc. Anyways, it was a joke and I didn't definitely call you a Nazi (just said I wouldn't be surprised based on your support for ethnicity-based legislation). Stop trying to become a martyr.

I support ethnicity based legislation? ok, when did i ever do that, i agree with far right racist political parties? when did i do that?

Oh, i know, Slovenia, right, i asked you to allow everyone to be an american citizen if they are in your country today, you said no, well, so did they, and you are no racist but they all are? Especially since all of then CAN BECOME CITIZENS IF THEY LEARN THE LANGUAGE! It's kinda automatic, most of them are citizens today so your argument about it is pretty much gone, besides, this is the NEW europe that the US praises on a daily basis.

For some reason i always get caught in these debates, and it is always you and Rabid against me.

Well, i am tired of being called a nazist and racist.

The Slovenian vote was instituted by a well-known far-right racist political party which scared the population into voting for it. I know you're the most educated person on this forum, but why do you keep bringing up the irrelevant comparison with the US? People were singled out based on their ethnicity.

If you're tired of being called a racist, the solution is simple. Don't be one.

Actually it wasn't instituted by a far right racist party at all, but that doesn't really matter to you, the population was not "scared" into anything, they simply voted in the same manner YOU said you would do if it was up to you.

They were singled out because of their NATIONALITY, not ethnicity. If you are going to make an argument about it at least read up on the matter, the ethnicity is the same (or as different) no matter which part of slovenia you come from, the deal was, you will have to learn the language, there was NO ban on becoming a citizen, and NO ONE threw them out either, they still live there, citizens or not, but as long as they refuse to adhere to the one thing that can make them citizens, they will live there as non citizens, under basically the same laws.

SCREAM at the injustice if you wish, i hear political prisoners of Cuba are being deported back to Castro, i bet they scream louder when they are tortured, ethnicity based you say?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yes, I'm sure klixxer must support their right to be represented in elections in Germany.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's illegally a member 😀

Enough is enough. You have expressed your dislike of illegal immigration in the US, yet it would be far from me to even suggest that you like the idea of murdering all of them and burning their corpses, which is what you are suggesting.

I have told you this before, my grandparents on my mothers side barely escaped the nazis, still you keep calling me a nazi. Several of the people who would still be alive, friends and relatives were not so lucky, not that that matters to you though, to you it is just a word to throw around.

You little POS, you should be ashamed, i am sure your parents are.

lol, I've posted several times on this forum that I support illegal immigration.

You've called me horrible words. You've wished for me to die. Told me to f*ck off and die. I don't mind.

Thanks for your personal history.

Actually you have posted your opinion AGAINST illegal immigration several times, do i REALLY have to look it up?

You called me a racist, but i am no racist, you have called me a nazi, but i am no nazi, what have i called you?

Then I guess I changed my mind. I've said why I can understand why people don't want it. My opinion even went more towards allowing illegal immigration ever since I read a report by USC that shows over 80% of illegal immigrants reach middle class and own a home, and that was months ago. I've posted about it several times in P&N and even OT. My ideal position would be no illegal immigration but massively increase legal immigration so people can live more freely in the US with no worries.

I believe you're a racist simply because you support ethnicity-based legislation. You basically agree with the politics of far-right racist political parties. You've called me plenty of fancy insults like "numbnuts." You've also called me a racist against a fictitious race, wished me to die, etc. Anyways, it was a joke and I didn't definitely call you a Nazi (just said I wouldn't be surprised based on your support for ethnicity-based legislation). Stop trying to become a martyr.

I support ethnicity based legislation? ok, when did i ever do that, i agree with far right racist political parties? when did i do that?

Oh, i know, Slovenia, right, i asked you to allow everyone to be an american citizen if they are in your country today, you said no, well, so did they, and you are no racist but they all are? Especially since all of then CAN BECOME CITIZENS IF THEY LEARN THE LANGUAGE! It's kinda automatic, most of them are citizens today so your argument about it is pretty much gone, besides, this is the NEW europe that the US praises on a daily basis.

For some reason i always get caught in these debates, and it is always you and Rabid against me.

Well, i am tired of being called a nazist and racist.

The Slovenian vote was instituted by a well-known far-right racist political party which scared the population into voting for it. I know you're the most educated person on this forum, but why do you keep bringing up the irrelevant comparison with the US? People were singled out based on their ethnicity.

If you're tired of being called a racist, the solution is simple. Don't be one.

Actually it wasn't instituted by a far right racist party at all, but that doesn't really matter to you, the population was not "scared" into anything, they simply voted in the same manner YOU said you would do if it was up to you.

They were singled out because of their NATIONALITY, not ethnicity. If you are going to make an argument about it at least read up on the matter, the ethnicity is the same (or as different) no matter which part of slovenia you come from, the deal was, you will have to learn the language, there was NO ban on becoming a citizen, and NO ONE threw them out either, they still live there, citizens or not, but as long as they refuse to adhere to the one thing that can make them citizens, they will live there as non citizens, under basically the same laws.

SCREAM at the injustice if you wish, i hear political prisoners of Cuba are being deported back to Castro, i bet they scream louder when they are tortured, ethnicity based you say?

lol, I would not single people out based on ethnicity like what happened in Slovenia. It was based on ethnicity, pure and simple. It was also brought by a racist far-right political party. They are technically not viewed as humans by their own government, they have lost many of their rights and privileges.

You have so many facts wrong. Read up. Let's not take this thread off topic about Slovenia, especially since you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
I'm not getting into your ridiculous 'racist, not a racist' debate, Klixxer. However, if you state something with faulty logic or an incorrect statement, then expect someone to comment on it.

Take a step back from the keyboard, look at this thread, who started that discussion, it wasn't me.

What i am saying is that the US puppet regime is the one to allow which parties the US will like the Iraqis to vote for.

So this "my" ridiculous 'racist, not racist' debate is all courtesy of your pal CanOWorms. Take a look up the thread, i am sure you can't miss it.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yes, I'm sure klixxer must support their right to be represented in elections in Germany.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's illegally a member 😀

Enough is enough. You have expressed your dislike of illegal immigration in the US, yet it would be far from me to even suggest that you like the idea of murdering all of them and burning their corpses, which is what you are suggesting.

I have told you this before, my grandparents on my mothers side barely escaped the nazis, still you keep calling me a nazi. Several of the people who would still be alive, friends and relatives were not so lucky, not that that matters to you though, to you it is just a word to throw around.

You little POS, you should be ashamed, i am sure your parents are.

lol, I've posted several times on this forum that I support illegal immigration.

You've called me horrible words. You've wished for me to die. Told me to f*ck off and die. I don't mind.

Thanks for your personal history.

Actually you have posted your opinion AGAINST illegal immigration several times, do i REALLY have to look it up?

You called me a racist, but i am no racist, you have called me a nazi, but i am no nazi, what have i called you?

Then I guess I changed my mind. I've said why I can understand why people don't want it. My opinion even went more towards allowing illegal immigration ever since I read a report by USC that shows over 80% of illegal immigrants reach middle class and own a home, and that was months ago. I've posted about it several times in P&N and even OT. My ideal position would be no illegal immigration but massively increase legal immigration so people can live more freely in the US with no worries.

I believe you're a racist simply because you support ethnicity-based legislation. You basically agree with the politics of far-right racist political parties. You've called me plenty of fancy insults like "numbnuts." You've also called me a racist against a fictitious race, wished me to die, etc. Anyways, it was a joke and I didn't definitely call you a Nazi (just said I wouldn't be surprised based on your support for ethnicity-based legislation). Stop trying to become a martyr.

I support ethnicity based legislation? ok, when did i ever do that, i agree with far right racist political parties? when did i do that?

Oh, i know, Slovenia, right, i asked you to allow everyone to be an american citizen if they are in your country today, you said no, well, so did they, and you are no racist but they all are? Especially since all of then CAN BECOME CITIZENS IF THEY LEARN THE LANGUAGE! It's kinda automatic, most of them are citizens today so your argument about it is pretty much gone, besides, this is the NEW europe that the US praises on a daily basis.

For some reason i always get caught in these debates, and it is always you and Rabid against me.

Well, i am tired of being called a nazist and racist.

The Slovenian vote was instituted by a well-known far-right racist political party which scared the population into voting for it. I know you're the most educated person on this forum, but why do you keep bringing up the irrelevant comparison with the US? People were singled out based on their ethnicity.

If you're tired of being called a racist, the solution is simple. Don't be one.

Actually it wasn't instituted by a far right racist party at all, but that doesn't really matter to you, the population was not "scared" into anything, they simply voted in the same manner YOU said you would do if it was up to you.

They were singled out because of their NATIONALITY, not ethnicity. If you are going to make an argument about it at least read up on the matter, the ethnicity is the same (or as different) no matter which part of slovenia you come from, the deal was, you will have to learn the language, there was NO ban on becoming a citizen, and NO ONE threw them out either, they still live there, citizens or not, but as long as they refuse to adhere to the one thing that can make them citizens, they will live there as non citizens, under basically the same laws.

SCREAM at the injustice if you wish, i hear political prisoners of Cuba are being deported back to Castro, i bet they scream louder when they are tortured, ethnicity based you say?

lol, I would not single people out based on ethnicity like what happened in Slovenia. It was based on ethnicity, pure and simple. It was also brought by a racist far-right political party. They are technically not viewed as humans by their own government, they have lost many of their rights and privileges.

You have so many facts wrong. Read up. Let's not take this thread off topic about Slovenia, especially since you have no clue what you're talking about.

Forget it, you don't have any idea what you are talking about and you refuse to listen.

You can continue to label all of europe and every european racist if that helps keep your pathetic life better, but i won't listen to your made up BS anymore.

 

[ToBeMe]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Todd33
Relax, they are letting Al-Sader run and he was a "terrorist" for months while he led the insurection and killed Amrican soldiers. They flip-flopped on that one.

Well i don't really care about that, i am not going to say that the left or the right is right, when it down to US internal politics i have no say in it, let them flip-flop or whatever is the buzz word this week, i really couldn't care less, what i DO care about though is what is going on in Iraq with the elections, if this isn't a democratic election where ALL parties are allowed, then this mission has been for NOTHING imo.

Um, that was Bremer, which had to come from the White House.

You don't get my stance though, i don't care who does what, left or right, i'm not American so i am not part of the left-right debate, whoever said what doesn't matter that much to me.

Actions speak for themselves, i'll hold my judgement until the rules are set, i am just saying IF, no matter who is deciding IF, then IF not all parties that are willing to run can run then it is wrong.

That is my point in it's entirity. IF the Baath party isn't allowed to run then the fight for democracy is gone.

OK, more directly, it seems all the members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party were deemed crimminals under the new Iraqi laws and thus will officially not be allowed to run by the law. I suppose someone outside Saddam's Baath party could run under the Baath Party nomer and in that way the party itself would be allowed to participate..................just none of the people affiliated with the Baath party under Saddam.

I don't think you can make laws without a valid elected government so who are to deem them illegal? The US officials or the current US invoked set of government (which changes constantly as some are deemed not friendly enough).

So who deems them criminals in the new Iraqi democracy if they are elected? Or is it so that pretty much anyone who would stand a chance won't enter the elections if they are not US friendly?

These are not questions for you, and neither you nor me will know until the elections are over but it seems to me that if they are not allowed to participate, the election has been fixed and must be declared illegal in a court of law in Iraq based on the rules of democracy (and surely the new constitution of Iraq, whoever gets to write it).

Um, the interim government is/was clear to set laws for Iraq as it saw/sees neccessary. A representative from each province was brought in and they appointed an interim "president".

I would also think that members of this new interim government would declare members of the party which was in dictatorship of Iraq for years, was feared by the people of Iraq, which ran "mock" elections where the only candidate on the ballot was Saddam and whom freely tortured and killed anyone deemed to be opposing Saddam or the party.............

The interim government is not recognized by anyone but the US government and has as much legality as this forum.

You want to pretend they have some legality, ok, go ahead, just don't call it a real election.

We ALL know about those elections, i don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that Saddams Iraq was truly democratic, so can it. What are you saying? "We are just doing the same thing"?

Is that an improvement? Let ALL parties be legal, who the FVCK are you to deem some illegal in THEIR country? I thought this was about freedom and liberation, if you are going to enforce the rules of the Baath party then WTF did you even bother.

Let's backtrack here, no threat, no WMD's no terrorists, torture continued and now no (real) democracy?

Yay for the 900+ dead for nothing, you want to tell their parents what they died for because in the eyes of the world, nothing has been accomplished.

The transfer of authority from the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) to the Iraqi Interim Government took place on 28 June. Iraqis now have full responsibility for governing Iraq. The occupation has come to an end, and the CPA has been dissolved. The UN Security Council unanimously approves the language of the Iraqi Interim Government and it's charter.

Members of the Iraqi Interim Government (IIG), including the President and two Vice-Presidents, assumed their positions immediately upon their inauguration on 28 June, and the Iraqi Governing Council declared itself dissolved. The IIG will continue until the formation of a Transitional Government, after elections have produced the Transitional Assembly by the end of January 2005.

We can now look ahead to seeing our vision for Iraq fulfilled, as set out by the Prime Minister in Spring 2003 and which is shared by the majority of Iraqis: a free, stable and prosperous Iraq at peace with itself, the region and the wider world. It is because we share this ultimate objective with most Iraqis that we believe that the Iraqi people, supported by the international community, can overcome the violent minority who seek to deprive Iraq of its opportunity for a better future.

Powers of the Iraqi Interim Government (IIG)?
The new Iraqi Interim Government (IIG) is sovereign and will enjoy full authority. It governs in accordance with United Nations Security Council resolutions (UNSCRs) and the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL), which was agreed by the former Iraq Governing Council (IGC) in February 2004. This includes a ?Bill of Rights?, which commits the IIG to respect the human rights of all Iraqi citizens. In accordance with the wishes expressed by many Iraqis, the Interim Government, is an un-elected body and therefore has limited powers in certain areas; e.g. it will be for the elected Iraqi Government to take decisions on the new Constitution.

The IIG?s main role is to provide security, promote economic development and prepare for elections. Pending the formation of the Transitional Assembly, the IIG has full powers and can enter into agreements with International Financial Institutions and on debt. However, by signing up to the Annex to the Transitional Administrative Law (TAL), the IIG will not take decisions that prejudice the constitutional process due in 2005. This condition was not imposed by the CPA or the United Nations.

The establishment of the IIG is a major step towards a fully elected government. All Iraqi Ministries are under full Iraqi control.

The Iraqi Interim Government comprises a President (Sunni), two Vice Presidents (Shi'a and a Sunni Kurd), a Prime Minister (Shi'a), a Deputy Prime Minister (Sunni Kurd), and 31 Ministers (5 of which are entirely new posts). The cabinet comprises 15 Shi'a, 9 Sunnis, 5 Kurds, 1 Turkman, and 1 Yezidi, and includes 6 female Ministers. This is the most representative Iraqi government for decades and arises from intensive and wide-ranging consultations in Iraq by UN Secretary General?s Special Adviser, Mr Lakhdar Brahimi.





Now, as for the reasons for the war..............................

As for reasoning, as I said before, go back to the resolution created and passed by President Clinton in 1998 making "Regime Change" the official policy and goal of the USA at any/all costs including military invasion.

Let me condense that message for you "our vision for Iraq", because that is what it all comes down to, the appointees were made by the US, correct?

Are you incouragable? The "appointees" were made by the inerim president after a council of Iraqi doctors and businessmen made referrals of people........it was all done by Iraqis including the appointment of the interim president.

So basically, this is not a democracy and never will be, at least we can agree on that.

It is, and will be as close as any other country including Germany and the USA!

If you would have read my previous post you would realize that i don't give a FVCK if the idea is Clintons or Bushs, i just care about what is happening next.

As does everyone elsel.................no point here...........

From what i see it will just be another puppet regime of the US, it's the fifth one.

Rose colored glasses are distorting your view then.................

So stop the pussyfooting and just come out and say it, it wasn't about WMD's, liberation or freedom, it was about the US wanting another base in the ME.

No, just as the world agreed, Iraq and the world is much better off with Saddam no longer in power...........that includes Germany and France...shall I quote what the respected leaders said word for word?

We know it is true so why beat around the bush with it (no pun intended).

Who is "we" and what do you know exactly? Have you sent the SS to spie on us???😉

No, actually, i didn't send the people who tried to kill my grandparents to spy on you.

Sorry to dissapoint you, maybe you can be the chief of a new holocaust and get me?

No, but I'll tell you this much....................my Grandfather and his brothers fought in WWII....................him for the USA, the other two for Germany. The families didn't speak for 42 years after the war...........until my Grandfather's death............we then learned that both his brothers were killed in the war.........fighting a war for a "crazy man" as was interpruted for me.....................what a waste....................

Now, here's what your "chancellor" had to say about things in an interview on May 9th 2004....................

The worldview of the average German in 2004 in seven sentences: Bush is stupid and evil. Iraq is the new Vietnam. America is doing virtually everything wrong. Sharon has himself to blame for the Palestinian terror. Israel has gotten us into this whole quagmire. Germany has thank God stayed out of it. Now we just have to be careful that our nice democracy isn?t turned into a police state by unnecessary security fears.

You think I?m exaggerating? A little! But when you listen in on the conversations at the watering holes of the leftist establishment ? and much worse still ? at the salons of the so-called bourgeois camp, you will rediscover these elements.

Above all, anti-Americanism has become a "Comme il faut" of intelligent conversation. But ? and this is new ? not just on the side of the Left. Even in nationally conservative and culturally conservative circles a sense of relief predominates that one can once again finally be open about the Americans. ?

Only when two things come together can the network of self-declared holy warriors really be weakened: Tough resistance from the outside through the Western democracies and a clear distancing of the moderates in the Moslem world, especially among the clerics, from such extremists. George Bush has realized that from the beginning and made that excessively clear with his visits to mosques: The terrorists can only be stopped together with Islam.

When one takes seriously the challenge of this war of religion, which in reality is one of culture and capital, when one is convinced that ?there can be no compromises reached with Jihadis,? when one prepares oneself to take on such a long-term and desperately aggressive threat, then the question has to be asked why the non-Islamic world apparently has little willpower to complete its part of the job.

Who is really protecting himself? Who is defending us effectively?

Since September 11, the day that Islamic terrorists declared a world war, there have been above all two nations who have done something and believed in themselves: America and England. And since that day three nations above all have been grilled morally: America, England and Israel again and again. ?

Naively, and from the comfortable and seemingly secure gallery of the European observer, tips are being given out as to how Israel, surrounded by an anti-Semitism of the most bloodthirsty sort, should carry out the fight against suicide commandos and those madly seeking to destroy Israel and drive the Jews out: More compromises, more allowances, more negotiations please! I ask myself how the German government would behave when on virtually every weekend a bus full of German school children would be blown apart in downtown Berlin.

He who acts, makes mistakes. Case in point Bush and Blair: For example in their reasoning and communication regarding their Afghanistan and Iraq policy, in the concept and the management of expectations the key question is how fast the region can be pacified and democratized. But despite all of the mistakes regarding the details (or often just in public relations) their policy and politics are at their core right. It is a policy of clear and tough resistance against the enemies of the free world.

One can truly see that the leaders of the governments in London and Washington are doing exactly that which the general public is supposedly increasingly demanding from politicians: They are following their convictions against the general spirit of the times, against resistance, in part within their own parties, and they are doing that which an international alliance of cowardice is not prepared to do.

In that sense it is not about downplaying war and violence as long as they serve a good purpose. On the contrary: Morality and good intentions as arguments to defend violence are always suspect. But it is about weighing the balance as to when tolerance for intolerance has to stop. And when doing nothing is worse than defending the Western system with military means. ?

In broad sections of Europe and in less threatened parts of Asia an appeasement is spreading that is frightening. If the consequence, for example, of the terror in Madrid is that Poland comes to the conclusion that it would be better to stay out of the matter, then the strategy of Al-Qaeda will soon succeed: Short-term in that the alliance of opponents collapses demoralized and discouraged. And long-term in that a demographic bomb is ticking whose explosion will be more damaging than any explosive.

The illusion that the aggressor can be soothed by good behavior reminds of 1936: Had the Allies not waited, negotiated, formed pacts and maneuvered back then and instead intervened, than millions of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, millions of soldiers, millions of people who thought differently could have been saved.

We are the ones who think differently. Maybe we need more toughness and vigilance to secure our democracy. Maybe it is wrong that Germany has refused to join the coalition of the willing. Maybe Israel is one of our most important allies. Maybe we should help this ally and not give them advice. Maybe America is doing more right than we think. Maybe more people in Iraq are better off today than they were one year ago. Maybe George Bush is not as stupid and evil, maybe one day, looking back on the developments that have just begun ? we might even be thankful to him because he was one of the few who acted in accordance with the maxim: These things must be nipped in the bud. (A phrase often used in Germany to refer to stopping the re-emergence of Nazism.)

And maybe we Germans need more than seven sentences for our worldview.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Forget it, you don't have any idea what you are talking about and you refuse to listen.

You can continue to label all of europe and every european racist if that helps keep your pathetic life better, but i won't listen to your made up BS anymore.

:cookie;

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
I'm not getting into your ridiculous 'racist, not a racist' debate, Klixxer. However, if you state something with faulty logic or an incorrect statement, then expect someone to comment on it.

Take a step back from the keyboard, look at this thread, who started that discussion, it wasn't me.

What i am saying is that the US puppet regime is the one to allow which parties the US will like the Iraqis to vote for.

So this "my" ridiculous 'racist, not racist' debate is all courtesy of your pal CanOWorms. Take a look up the thread, i am sure you can't miss it.

Actually this conversation exploded with your 'if you ban one party, then you can't be a democracy'...that's almost what everyone was talking about. Then I commented on some of your other posts. If you're too stubborn to address your incorrect or faulty logic or posts addressing them, then I can't say I am very surprised. You let bias get in the way of facts too much, IMO.

You said that I also join you two in these ridiculous debates. Not in this one. Sorry, but I'm talking about your posts in this very thread.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
I'm not getting into your ridiculous 'racist, not a racist' debate, Klixxer. However, if you state something with faulty logic or an incorrect statement, then expect someone to comment on it.

Take a step back from the keyboard, look at this thread, who started that discussion, it wasn't me.

What i am saying is that the US puppet regime is the one to allow which parties the US will like the Iraqis to vote for.

So this "my" ridiculous 'racist, not racist' debate is all courtesy of your pal CanOWorms. Take a look up the thread, i am sure you can't miss it.

Actually this conversation exploded with your 'if you ban one party, then you can't be a democracy'...that's almost what everyone was talking about. Then I commented on some of your other posts. If you're too stubborn to address your incorrect or faulty logic or posts addressing them, then I can't say I am very surprised. You let bias get in the way of facts too much, IMO.

You said that I also join you two in these ridiculous debates. Not in this one. Sorry, but I'm talking about your posts in this very thread.

Nice backtracking, but in what way was that a debate on racism?

Did i start that? YOU say i started just that, yet i did not, i have stated what i believe regarding the new government of Iraq (and i cannot see how that has ANYTHING to do with racism), can we discuss that or is that another form of hidden racism that i am guilty of? Maybe it's SS tactics?

My bias is that i don't believe that the US has the best intentions for Iraq in mind, and i believe that anyone who actually believes that it was for the fifth reason (liberation) is a brainwashed sheep.

But that is racism, isn't it, i am sure your pal can turn that into racism in some fvcking way and then you can blame me for bringing the discussion into the thread.

Why don't the two of you just get a room and stop bugging me.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Nice backtracking, but in what way was that a debate on racism?

Did i start that? YOU say i started just that, yet i did not, i have stated what i believe regarding the new government of Iraq (and i cannot see how that has ANYTHING to do with racism), can we discuss that or is that another form of hidden racism that i am guilty of? Maybe it's SS tactics?

My bias is that i don't believe that the US has the best intentions for Iraq in mind, and i believe that anyone who actually believes that it was for the fifth reason (liberation) is a brainwashed sheep.

But that is racism, isn't it, i am sure your pal can turn that into racism in some fvcking way and then you can blame me for bringing the discussion into the thread.

Why don't the two of you just get a room and stop bugging me.

I have no idea what you're talking about. You probably misunderstood me as well.

I'm saying that I did not get into your two strange little conversation that went completely off topic.

I'm saying that I got into this debate after YOUR comment about democracy. That's when this thread exploded. You thought I was talking about something else when I was referring to your democracy statement.

The US may not have the best intentioins, but who did? At least Iraq will most likely be better off in the future, not that excuses the war by any means.

 

[arsbanned]

How hard would it have been to say "well, you have a point with the Nazi thing" Instead you guys go on for hours.
Gahhh.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
How hard would it have been to say "well, you have a point with the Nazi thing" Instead you guys go on for hours.
Gahhh.

Apparently it was pretty tough 😀

 

[Drift3r]

Here are the parties when the elections come for Iraqis:

A.) CIA strongman backed and supported by the U.S. Forces pushing a Pro- U.S. and Pro-Israel agenda ( All mostly all U.S. citizens )

C.) Nationalist Baathist/Pro-Saddam forces who hate America ( Mostly Sunni )

D.) Pro-Iranian and Pro-Radical Islamic forces who also hate America ( Mostly Shiites )

C.) Pro-Al Qiada Forces and Pro-Radical Islamic forces who also hate America ( Mostly Sunni Iraqis and Foriegn Sunni Fighters )


So it's going to be either that Iraqis either get a government that puts U.S. and Israeli interests first or a Pro-Islamic or Pro-Baathist party that put their own interest first.