There is no such thing as an Athiest

[WRXFanatic]

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Originally posted by: HajikuFlip
I'm not really sure where to jump in. I'll just throw out some random tidbits, and then go from there.

One of the most common questions we've all heard are "So if there is no God, then who created the universe?". Now if you were to reply "Nobody did, the Universe has always been here." 99% of people will immediatley reject that idea and call it foolish. Why is it foolish to believe that the Universe has always been here, but totally sensible that God has? :frown:

I've had many debates with people who believed in God, and they usually dwindle down to them running out of ideas and just going with the classic 'You just have to believe' argument. Many people have told me that they can 'feel' god and that there are times when they know he's looking over him. This is going to get a little touchy, but just try to think nonjudgementally for a moment.

Remember when we all believed in Santa Clause? I mean, there was no doubt in our mind that he existed. The idea that he could fit down every chimney and deliver presents to every house in the world didn't seem illogical for even a second (for most of us). On Christmas Eve we would sneak down, knowing that he was probably just outside waiting to come in. And when we'd find the cookies and milk half eaten and half ate the next morning, we'd take that as definite proof that Santa existed, and that he was there. But once we found out he wasn't real, suddenly everything seemed totally obvious. When we see kids wrapped up in the magic, we sometimes wonder how in the world they don't catch on, or see it before hand.

In my mind, that is exactly how Athiests and Agnostics are alike. We are on the outside looking in. We can see how easily people are led to believe what they are told about religion, and why they want to believe it. I don't blame people for believing in God, or think that they are stupid. I wish that I myself could allow myself to believe in it, as I'm sure its comforting to believe that you will get to see your passed loved ones and that death will only be followed with good things to come. Unfortunatley, I stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago :disgust:

That was beautiful.

There is a reason that people don't believe in santa once they grow up. They know that their parents have taken the place of santa. Who takes the place of God? Where is the proof that God doesn't exist?

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Originally posted by: HajikuFlip
I'm not really sure where to jump in. I'll just throw out some random tidbits, and then go from there.

One of the most common questions we've all heard are "So if there is no God, then who created the universe?". Now if you were to reply "Nobody did, the Universe has always been here." 99% of people will immediatley reject that idea and call it foolish. Why is it foolish to believe that the Universe has always been here, but totally sensible that God has? :frown:

I've had many debates with people who believed in God, and they usually dwindle down to them running out of ideas and just going with the classic 'You just have to believe' argument. Many people have told me that they can 'feel' god and that there are times when they know he's looking over him. This is going to get a little touchy, but just try to think nonjudgementally for a moment.

Remember when we all believed in Santa Clause? I mean, there was no doubt in our mind that he existed. The idea that he could fit down every chimney and deliver presents to every house in the world didn't seem illogical for even a second (for most of us). On Christmas Eve we would sneak down, knowing that he was probably just outside waiting to come in. And when we'd find the cookies and milk half eaten and half ate the next morning, we'd take that as definite proof that Santa existed, and that he was there. But once we found out he wasn't real, suddenly everything seemed totally obvious. When we see kids wrapped up in the magic, we sometimes wonder how in the world they don't catch on, or see it before hand.

In my mind, that is exactly how Athiests and Agnostics are alike. We are on the outside looking in. We can see how easily people are led to believe what they are told about religion, and why they want to believe it. I don't blame people for believing in God, or think that they are stupid. I wish that I myself could allow myself to believe in it, as I'm sure its comforting to believe that you will get to see your passed loved ones and that death will only be followed with good things to come. Unfortunatley, I stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago :disgust:

That was beautiful.

There is a reason that people don't believe in santa once they grow up. They know that their parents have taken the place of santa. Who takes the place of God? Where is the proof that God doesn't exist?

Where's the proof that he does exist? Maybe the Buddhists have been right all along and you're going to be reincarnated as a dung beetle?

 

[TheBDB]

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Originally posted by: HajikuFlip
I'm not really sure where to jump in. I'll just throw out some random tidbits, and then go from there.

One of the most common questions we've all heard are "So if there is no God, then who created the universe?". Now if you were to reply "Nobody did, the Universe has always been here." 99% of people will immediatley reject that idea and call it foolish. Why is it foolish to believe that the Universe has always been here, but totally sensible that God has? :frown:

I've had many debates with people who believed in God, and they usually dwindle down to them running out of ideas and just going with the classic 'You just have to believe' argument. Many people have told me that they can 'feel' god and that there are times when they know he's looking over him. This is going to get a little touchy, but just try to think nonjudgementally for a moment.

Remember when we all believed in Santa Clause? I mean, there was no doubt in our mind that he existed. The idea that he could fit down every chimney and deliver presents to every house in the world didn't seem illogical for even a second (for most of us). On Christmas Eve we would sneak down, knowing that he was probably just outside waiting to come in. And when we'd find the cookies and milk half eaten and half ate the next morning, we'd take that as definite proof that Santa existed, and that he was there. But once we found out he wasn't real, suddenly everything seemed totally obvious. When we see kids wrapped up in the magic, we sometimes wonder how in the world they don't catch on, or see it before hand.

In my mind, that is exactly how Athiests and Agnostics are alike. We are on the outside looking in. We can see how easily people are led to believe what they are told about religion, and why they want to believe it. I don't blame people for believing in God, or think that they are stupid. I wish that I myself could allow myself to believe in it, as I'm sure its comforting to believe that you will get to see your passed loved ones and that death will only be followed with good things to come. Unfortunatley, I stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago :disgust:

That was beautiful.

There is a reason that people don't believe in santa once they grow up. They know that their parents have taken the place of santa. Who takes the place of God? Where is the proof that God doesn't exist?

Where is the proof Santa and the Easter Bunny don't exist??? I can still hope!

 

[SuperTool]

I guess those who believe there is a god are equally misguided as those who believe there isn't one. The real answer is that there isn't proof either way.
The main problem is that some people don't respect that others will reach a different conclusion, and think that theirs is the only correct one, even though there isn't more evidence for their conclusion than for anyone else's.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic

There is a reason that people don't believe in santa once they grow up. They know that their parents have taken the place of santa. Who takes the place of God? Where is the proof that God doesn't exist?

Where is the proof that Santa doesn't exist?

 

[Vortex22]

There is a reason that people don't believe in santa once they grow up. They know that their parents have taken the place of santa. Who takes the place of God? Where is the proof that God doesn't exist?

I take the place of god. You don't understand now, but you will when you get older.

 

[matt426malm]

Ecohing voice: "THis is God close that porn window that is next to the ATOT window"

There is no proof that GOD does not exist!!!!!!! That is why I am a strong agnostic. I don't "believe" that god exists but when you make a posotive statement "god exists" the burden of proof is on you we have been over this already....

 

[Kadarin]

God is an abstract concept that can only be categorized as a "maybe". There's no direct factual evidence that He exists, no evidence that can be backed up by experimentation through the scientific method. People believe because they believe, because they choose to.

Who knows? God may exist.. On the other hand, God, if He exists, plays no part in my life. I see no reason to worship something that may or may not be there. That would just be silly.

 

[Murphy Durphy]

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Originally posted by: HajikuFlip
I'm not really sure where to jump in. I'll just throw out some random tidbits, and then go from there.

One of the most common questions we've all heard are "So if there is no God, then who created the universe?". Now if you were to reply "Nobody did, the Universe has always been here." 99% of people will immediatley reject that idea and call it foolish. Why is it foolish to believe that the Universe has always been here, but totally sensible that God has? :frown:

I've had many debates with people who believed in God, and they usually dwindle down to them running out of ideas and just going with the classic 'You just have to believe' argument. Many people have told me that they can 'feel' god and that there are times when they know he's looking over him. This is going to get a little touchy, but just try to think nonjudgementally for a moment.

Remember when we all believed in Santa Clause? I mean, there was no doubt in our mind that he existed. The idea that he could fit down every chimney and deliver presents to every house in the world didn't seem illogical for even a second (for most of us). On Christmas Eve we would sneak down, knowing that he was probably just outside waiting to come in. And when we'd find the cookies and milk half eaten and half ate the next morning, we'd take that as definite proof that Santa existed, and that he was there. But once we found out he wasn't real, suddenly everything seemed totally obvious. When we see kids wrapped up in the magic, we sometimes wonder how in the world they don't catch on, or see it before hand.

In my mind, that is exactly how Athiests and Agnostics are alike. We are on the outside looking in. We can see how easily people are led to believe what they are told about religion, and why they want to believe it. I don't blame people for believing in God, or think that they are stupid. I wish that I myself could allow myself to believe in it, as I'm sure its comforting to believe that you will get to see your passed loved ones and that death will only be followed with good things to come. Unfortunatley, I stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago :disgust:

That was beautiful.

There is a reason that people don't believe in santa once they grow up. They know that their parents have taken the place of santa. Who takes the place of God? Where is the proof that God doesn't exist?

I think you missed the point...

Who takes the place of god? Its called Responsibility. The bible and God are crutches for people to live by; to make their life easier as they age and to teach them right from wrong as a child. IMHO, if you lived your life knowing that there would be no eternal afterlife, a second chance, or that you would see your friends and family again sometime down the line; you would live your life much more to the fullest.

As for the Santa Clause / Religion analogy, there are many other similarities that you can pick out. For instance, those children that are bad for the year get coal. Those children that are good that year get wonderful presents. Starting to pick up on a theme? Live your life by the book, you'll get a lifetime of rewards in Heaven. Stray away, and you'll be condemned to Hell for eternity.

 

[matt426malm]

THat is how you keep ignorant people in line, phesants perhaps

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
God is an abstract concept that can only be categorized as a "maybe". There's no direct factual evidence that He exists, no evidence that can be backed up by experimentation through the scientific method. People believe because they believe, because they choose to.

Who knows? God may exist.. On the other hand, God, if He exists, plays no part in my life. I see no reason to worship something that may or may not be there. That would just be silly.

Even if you assume He exists, there is no point in worshipping Him because there is no way of knowing wheather He will reward, punish, or ignore your worship. Maybe God is a woman, and the more worship Her, the more she treats you like crap.

 

[matt426malm]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
God is an abstract concept that can only be categorized as a "maybe". There's no direct factual evidence that He exists, no evidence that can be backed up by experimentation through the scientific method. People believe because they believe, because they choose to.

Who knows? God may exist.. On the other hand, God, if He exists, plays no part in my life. I see no reason to worship something that may or may not be there. That would just be silly.

Even if you assume He exists, there is no point in worshipping Him because there is no way of knowing wheather He will reward, punish, or ignore your worship. Maybe God is a woman, and the more worship Her, the more she treats you like crap.

so true

 

[WRXFanatic]

Originally posted by: HajikuFlip

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Originally posted by: HajikuFlip
I'm not really sure where to jump in. I'll just throw out some random tidbits, and then go from there.

One of the most common questions we've all heard are "So if there is no God, then who created the universe?". Now if you were to reply "Nobody did, the Universe has always been here." 99% of people will immediatley reject that idea and call it foolish. Why is it foolish to believe that the Universe has always been here, but totally sensible that God has? :frown:

I've had many debates with people who believed in God, and they usually dwindle down to them running out of ideas and just going with the classic 'You just have to believe' argument. Many people have told me that they can 'feel' god and that there are times when they know he's looking over him. This is going to get a little touchy, but just try to think nonjudgementally for a moment.

Remember when we all believed in Santa Clause? I mean, there was no doubt in our mind that he existed. The idea that he could fit down every chimney and deliver presents to every house in the world didn't seem illogical for even a second (for most of us). On Christmas Eve we would sneak down, knowing that he was probably just outside waiting to come in. And when we'd find the cookies and milk half eaten and half ate the next morning, we'd take that as definite proof that Santa existed, and that he was there. But once we found out he wasn't real, suddenly everything seemed totally obvious. When we see kids wrapped up in the magic, we sometimes wonder how in the world they don't catch on, or see it before hand.

In my mind, that is exactly how Athiests and Agnostics are alike. We are on the outside looking in. We can see how easily people are led to believe what they are told about religion, and why they want to believe it. I don't blame people for believing in God, or think that they are stupid. I wish that I myself could allow myself to believe in it, as I'm sure its comforting to believe that you will get to see your passed loved ones and that death will only be followed with good things to come. Unfortunatley, I stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago :disgust:

That was beautiful.

There is a reason that people don't believe in santa once they grow up. They know that their parents have taken the place of santa. Who takes the place of God? Where is the proof that God doesn't exist?

I think you missed the point...

Who takes the place of god? Its called Responsibility. The bible and God are crutches for people to live by; to make their life easier as they age and to teach them right from wrong as a child. IMHO, if you lived your life knowing that there would be no eternal afterlife, a second chance, or that you would see your friends and family again sometime down the line; you would live your life much more to the fullest.

As for the Santa Clause / Religion analogy, there are many other similarities that you can pick out. For instance, those children that are bad for the year get coal. Those children that are good that year get wonderful presents. Starting to pick up on a theme? Live your life by the book, you'll get a lifetime of rewards in Heaven. Stray away, and you'll be condemned to Hell for eternity.

Santa doesn't exist, nor did he ever exist, he is the compulation of alot myths and legends from many cultures (most notably st. nick, but he has his own holiday...and even at that, the santa idea is more the just st nick.)

Jesus Christ has an entire book written about him. His existance is proven, his miricles documented in a book that is historically accurate and in all ways possible, proven correct. Compairing the belief in santa to belief in Christ (God) isn't accurate (though i must say, very interesting)

whats more is the time test. Santa hasn't been around nearly as long as Christ (and his teachings have)

Now since the argument talks strictly of God, and not Christ...

Look at every major religion in the world, they are all based around the same morals....that says somthing. What is says is that humans have knowledge of a higher moral code, exemplified by their socities were independent of eachother, and they came up with almost the same principles. In all other aspects (remember this is on a large scale, not a small scale) humans are influenced by their environment, which leads one to belive that each of these independent religions would be radically diffrent then the others, but they are not...thus there is probable cause that there is somthing higher that directs human morals. Be this God or not, who knows.

and if the universe has just simply existed, what sparked life? what set everything into motion.

 

[Vortex22]

.

 

[Vortex22]

Santa doesn't exist, nor did he ever exist, he is the compulation of alot myths and legends from many cultures

Hmm.. sounds familiar...

 

[matt426malm]

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic

Originally posted by: HajikuFlip

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Originally posted by: HajikuFlip
I'm not really sure where to jump in. I'll just throw out some random tidbits, and then go from there.

One of the most common questions we've all heard are "So if there is no God, then who created the universe?". Now if you were to reply "Nobody did, the Universe has always been here." 99% of people will immediatley reject that idea and call it foolish. Why is it foolish to believe that the Universe has always been here, but totally sensible that God has? :frown:

I've had many debates with people who believed in God, and they usually dwindle down to them running out of ideas and just going with the classic 'You just have to believe' argument. Many people have told me that they can 'feel' god and that there are times when they know he's looking over him. This is going to get a little touchy, but just try to think nonjudgementally for a moment. Remember when we all believed in Santa Clause? I mean, there was no doubt in our mind that he existed. The idea that he could fit down every chimney and deliver presents to every house in the world didn't seem illogical for even a second (for most of us). On Christmas Eve we would sneak down, knowing that he was probably just outside waiting to come in. And when we'd find the cookies and milk half eaten and half ate the next morning, we'd take that as definite proof that Santa existed, and that he was there. But once we found out he wasn't real, suddenly everything seemed totally obvious. When we see kids wrapped up in the magic, we sometimes wonder how in the world they don't catch on, or see it before hand.

In my mind, that is exactly how Athiests and Agnostics are alike. We are on the outside looking in. We can see how easily people are led to believe what they are told about religion, and why they want to believe it. I don't blame people for believing in God, or think that they are stupid. I wish that I myself could allow myself to believe in it, as I'm sure its comforting to believe that you will get to see your passed loved ones and that death will only be followed with good things to come. Unfortunatley, I stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago :disgust:

That was beautiful.

There is a reason that people don't believe in santa once they grow up. They know that their parents have taken the place of santa. Who takes the place of God? Where is the proof that God doesn't exist?

I think you missed the point...

Who takes the place of god? Its called Responsibility. The bible and God are crutches for people to live by; to make their life easier as they age and to teach them right from wrong as a child. IMHO, if you lived your life knowing that there would be no eternal afterlife, a second chance, or that you would see your friends and family again sometime down the line; you would live your life much more to the fullest.

As for the Santa Clause / Religion analogy, there are many other similarities that you can pick out. For instance, those children that are bad for the year get coal. Those children that are good that year get wonderful presents. Starting to pick up on a theme? Live your life by the book, you'll get a lifetime of rewards in Heaven. Stray away, and you'll be condemned to Hell for eternity.

Santa doesn't exist, nor did he ever exist, he is the compulation of alot myths and legends from many cultures (most notably st. nick, but he has his own holiday...and even at that, the santa idea is more the just st nick.)

Jesus Christ has an entire book written about him. His existance is proven, his miricles documented in a book that is historically accurate and in all ways possible, proven correct. Compairing the belief in santa to belief in Christ (God) isn't accurate (though i must say, very interesting)

whats more is the time test. Santa hasn't been around nearly as long as Christ (and his teachings have)

Now since the argument talks strictly of God, and not Christ...

Look at every major religion in the world, they are all based around the same morals....that says somthing. What is says is that humans have knowledge of a higher moral code, exemplified by their socities were independent of eachother, and they came up with almost the same principles. In all other aspects (remember this is on a large scale, not a small scale) humans are influenced by their environment, which leads one to belive that each of these independent religions would be radically diffrent then the others, but they are not...thus there is probable cause that there is somthing higher that directs human morals. Be this God or not, who knows.

and if the universe has just simply existed, what sparked life? what set everything into motion.

Okay the morals of most societies are simmilar how long would a society last where it was okay to kil, steal, ect? Morals develop because they benefit the society a society without laws collapses and doesn't make it into history books,

The universe existing is a result of the laws of quantum mechanics in a vacuum
Life is chemically self replicating protiens, and dinucleic acids

 

[matt426malm]

Oh yeah and why was the "there is no such thing as a christian" post locked?

 

[meehawl]

What does Jack Chick think about Atheists?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0094/0094_01.asp

 

[WRXFanatic]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
God is an abstract concept that can only be categorized as a "maybe". There's no direct factual evidence that He exists, no evidence that can be backed up by experimentation through the scientific method. People believe because they believe, because they choose to.

Who knows? God may exist.. On the other hand, God, if He exists, plays no part in my life. I see no reason to worship something that may or may not be there. That would just be silly.

Even if you assume He exists, there is no point in worshipping Him because there is no way of knowing wheather He will reward, punish, or ignore your worship. Maybe God is a woman, and the more worship Her, the more she treats you like crap.

If i choose to belive in God, and i live a worship him, and live acording to his law, and i'm wrong, then i've lost nothing. If i choose to reject the concept of God, and all those teachings, and i'm wrong, i've lost everything

 

[WRXFanatic]

I just don't understand how people can believe things came from random happenings. For example. The snow flake. Think about snow flakes. It takes who knows how many just to make an inch in a 1 mile radius. Each one is different. Think about 3 feet of snow in a 10 mile radius, think of how many tiny little snowflakes make that up and how each one is slightly different. THat just happens by CHANCE? Also, if you melt snowflakes and re-freeze them, they return to their original form. How is that a random happening?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
God is an abstract concept that can only be categorized as a "maybe". There's no direct factual evidence that He exists, no evidence that can be backed up by experimentation through the scientific method. People believe because they believe, because they choose to.

Who knows? God may exist.. On the other hand, God, if He exists, plays no part in my life. I see no reason to worship something that may or may not be there. That would just be silly.

Even if you assume He exists, there is no point in worshipping Him because there is no way of knowing wheather He will reward, punish, or ignore your worship. Maybe God is a woman, and the more worship Her, the more she treats you like crap.

If i choose to belive in God, and i live a worship him, and live acording to his law, and i'm wrong, then i've lost nothing. If i choose to reject the concept of God, and all those teachings, and i'm wrong, i've lost everything

How do you know you lost nothing? Maybe your worshipping is actually pissing God off big time, and he is going to make you suffer.

 

[DurocShark]

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic
ok...this is just something i thought about....how do actual athiests exist?
they claim that there is no God, therefore admitting to the fact that they are omniscent (all knowing?), therefore putting themselves in the place of God because only God is all knowing....

any thoughts?

That is the dumbest flamebait I have ever seen posted.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
God is an abstract concept that can only be categorized as a "maybe". There's no direct factual evidence that He exists, no evidence that can be backed up by experimentation through the scientific method. People believe because they believe, because they choose to.

Who knows? God may exist.. On the other hand, God, if He exists, plays no part in my life. I see no reason to worship something that may or may not be there. That would just be silly.

Even if you assume He exists, there is no point in worshipping Him because there is no way of knowing wheather He will reward, punish, or ignore your worship. Maybe God is a woman, and the more worship Her, the more she treats you like crap.

If i choose to belive in God, and i live a worship him, and live acording to his law, and i'm wrong, then i've lost nothing. If i choose to reject the concept of God, and all those teachings, and i'm wrong, i've lost everything

That is called Pascal's Wager, and has been thoroughly discredited. For example: link

In addition, using Pascal's Wager as a justification for believing in a particular religion is very childish. Such a religion/God would not be worthy of that belief.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic
I just don't understand how people can believe things came from random happenings. For example. The snow flake. Think about snow flakes. It takes who knows how many just to make an inch in a 1 mile radius. Each one is different. Think about 3 feet of snow in a 10 mile radius, think of how many tiny little snowflakes make that up and how each one is slightly different. THat just happens by CHANCE? Also, if you melt snowflakes and re-freeze them, they return to their original form. How is that a random happening?

Each one is different precisely because they are random happenings. If they were all "created" they would all be the same. And if you melt snowflakes and re-freeze them, they don't return to their original form. Try melting a bunch of snow and refreezing it, you'll just get a block of ice.

 

[matt426malm]

Originally posted by: WRXFanatic
I just don't understand how people can believe things came from random happenings. For example. The snow flake. Think about snow flakes. It takes who knows how many just to make an inch in a 1 mile radius. Each one is different. Think about 3 feet of snow in a 10 mile radius, think of how many tiny little snowflakes make that up and how each one is slightly different. THat just happens by CHANCE? Also, if you melt snowflakes and re-freeze them, they return to their original form. How is that a random happening?

Snow flakes do not freeze to their original form after melting and the patterns are a result of math in physics

And after a few trillion snowflakes you would get one that is exactly the same it's called probablity