There is a fine line between "helping your child" and "doing it for your child"

[Krazefinn]

Originally posted by: waggy
Its not that kids are getting dumber its how we teach them are.

50 years ago we didn't gear classes to improving self esteem. heck they didn't care. Now we cutting AP classes because it might hurt the feelings of those that don't get in. cutting grades because we don't want kids to think this is a competition. We are allowing everyone to get on the team no matter how much they suck etc. With so many standardized test teachers are forced to teach how to take the test and skip what the test really covers.

kids are smarter. We just have the educational system set up for them to fail.

Waggy spot on there. To avoid legal liabilities, making the less fortunate/immigrant ESOL/ other demographic underachievers appear less capable, we have dumbed down education to lowest common denominator. just to be able to PASS them all on upstream...
so to avoid " stigmatizing" or placing any accountability/personal choice consequences on those that don't bring up their kids with proper parental modeling and work ethic instead promise all kind of entitlements(among many other things), we then basically ignore those really intelligent students, who get bored, stop trying, etc.

Cuz we sure dont want the schoolboards sued by any more of these overrepresented underprivileged population segments. But its alright to hurt everyone else and our society as a whole...including the very creme dela creme we NEED to excel educationally, to bring our global competitivenss back to market by providing students who can THINK creatively and critically, rather than spouting by rote memory the "right" answers taught by agends. All this self-esteem carp that school boards dont want to "hurt any underachievers by overly recognizing those other students who are deserving and need intelligent curriculae" is gonna (strike that, HAS) bit us in the backside. Which is why we are no longer an emerging global force in science, math, intellectual property, instead fast becoming a 3rd world nation in terms of future prospects.

I'm sure this will be misconstrued, maligned, and misquoted. but its your right if you so choose, to get my point, even if you get it wrong. Sorry to further derail the OT, but since it was headin there anyway, just gave the wheel a good jerk!

I'm so proud of my kid though, I decided to raise her in MOST of the ways OPPOSITE to the way I was raised. Instead of focusing on behaviour, i put all my energy into fostering a healthy relationship. And now it seems she chooses to behave in a certain way because she values that relationship (which I'm sure she knows I'd still love her just as much anyway!).

But I digress, let the kids be kids, and compete on their own terms. But teaching some kids its OK to cheat is a real disservice that will come back to haunt those who did that by claimuing their handiwork as their kids...

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Just so everyone knows what I'm talking about: Pinewood Derby

My wife's uncle teaches a youth group for boys (about 8 - 10 years old) at his church, and he has for the past several years organized and run a yearly pinewood derby (this time including the girls as well). This year he asked me to be a judge at the event, since I don't go to his church and would therefore be impartial. The kids were supposed to build and decorate their own cars, find a Bible verse that somehow related to their design, and then they would race them at the event. My job was to judge on two categories: "best looking car" and "best choice of Bible verse". Prizes (trophies, etc.) were involved.

Another relevant piece of information is that adults were invited to submit their own cars, although they were not eligible to be judged for prizes. In other words, if parents wanted to spend tons of money, time, and effort to design a car, they could do so without bumping any kids out of prize contention.

So last night at the event, 85% of the kids proudly carried in the product of their labors, and they were pretty much what you would expect from kids. They were all nifty-looking, but there was no doubt that they were made by kids, if you know what I mean.

Then there were the other 15%. There were three cars that were submitted for judging in the children's categories, and I am 100% safe in saying that these cars had never been touched by young hands. I'm not joking - these three cars looked professionally made, even better than those shown on the site I linked above. One of them looked like it had literally been designed by an Italian sportscar aerodynamic engineer.

Some parents suck. There were three kids who put a lot of effort in their entries who got bumped out of a trophy last night, and I really feel bad for them.

just take some joy in knowing that these kids wont survive in the real world when mommy/daddy stop helping them. or make fun of them when they're 30 and still under mommies wing.

btw- if u knew they were cheating, why did you award the prizes to them?

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
<snip>

just take some joy in knowing that these kids wont survive in the real world when mommy/daddy stop helping them. or make fun of them when they're 30 and still under mommies wing.

btw- if u knew they were cheating, why did you award the prizes to them?

My only criteria was for "best looking car". Like someone else pointed out, there is no way to prove that the kid didn't do 100% of the work, no matter how obvious it is that they didn't do any of it.

 

[AMCRambler]

I used to do pinewood derby in cub scouts when I was kid. I remember there was always at least one car that was just the basic block of wood taken out of the box and painted or colored somehow with the wheels nailed. Used to crack me up, but you know the kid did it all himself with no help from the parents. They probably told the poor guy that he wasn't allowed to use a saw, too dangerous or something to that effect. Our judges always used to give the block cars honorable mentions.
My cars were pretty sucky too but it least they were shaped a bit. My pops used to let me draw on the block how I wanted it cut, then he'd cut it for me, and give me some sandpaper to sand it into the shape I wanted. Usually he'd end up having to drill holes in the bottom and stick lead fishing weights in it to make it meet the weight requirement for me. I never had any cars near as fancy as the ones on that site you posted.

 

[Tom]

a comment about the who's responsible for stupidity debate..

Every "kid" is an individual, there is no generic answer to how an individual reacts to their enviroment. Every individual, including kids, is ultimately responsible for how they deal with the enviroment they live in, no matter how crappy or wonderful it might be.

Parents could be better, schools could be better, society could be better, if we knew what "better" is. (depending on the results you think are "better", adversity may give "better" results than making things more pleasant.)