There is a fine line between "helping your child" and "doing it for your child"

[NuclearNed]

Just so everyone knows what I'm talking about: Pinewood Derby

My wife's uncle teaches a youth group for boys (about 8 - 10 years old) at his church, and he has for the past several years organized and run a yearly pinewood derby (this time including the girls as well). This year he asked me to be a judge at the event, since I don't go to his church and would therefore be impartial. The kids were supposed to build and decorate their own cars, find a Bible verse that somehow related to their design, and then they would race them at the event. My job was to judge on two categories: "best looking car" and "best choice of Bible verse". Prizes (trophies, etc.) were involved.

Another relevant piece of information is that adults were invited to submit their own cars, although they were not eligible to be judged for prizes. In other words, if parents wanted to spend tons of money, time, and effort to design a car, they could do so without bumping any kids out of prize contention.

So last night at the event, 85% of the kids proudly carried in the product of their labors, and they were pretty much what you would expect from kids. They were all nifty-looking, but there was no doubt that they were made by kids, if you know what I mean.

Then there were the other 15%. There were three cars that were submitted for judging in the children's categories, and I am 100% safe in saying that these cars had never been touched by young hands. I'm not joking - these three cars looked professionally made, even better than those shown on the site I linked above. One of them looked like it had literally been designed by an Italian sportscar aerodynamic engineer.

Some parents suck. There were three kids who put a lot of effort in their entries who got bumped out of a trophy last night, and I really feel bad for them.

 

[rhino56]

i think its common, it really should be the parents racing the cars. thats what it is anyways.
you would have to have the kids do it in a controlled environment to keep it fair.
why let them take the projects home?

 

[moshquerade]

preaching to the choir here.

parents who do things for kids like that are just setting them up for disappointment when they get out into the real world and do things that will be judged that mommy and daddy can't help them with anymore.

 

[wvtalbot]

Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

 

[George P Burdell]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
parents who do things for kids like that are just setting them up for disappointment when they get out into the real world and do things that will be judged that mommy and daddy can't help them with anymore.

Agreed

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
My job was to judge on two categories: "best looking car" and "best choice of Bible verse". Prizes (trophies, etc.) were involved.

Some parents suck. There were three kids who put a lot of effort in their entries who got bumped out of a trophy last night, and I really feel bad for them.

You were the damn judge why didn't you lay the smack down on the parents!

Ya I know there is no 100% way to prove the parent did not do the work.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
My job was to judge on two categories: "best looking car" and "best choice of Bible verse". Prizes (trophies, etc.) were involved.

Some parents suck. There were three kids who put a lot of effort in their entries who got bumped out of a trophy last night, and I really feel bad for them.

You were the damn judge why didn't you lay the smack down on the parents!

Ya I know there is no 100% way to prove the parent did not do the work.

I left the event feeling kind of dirty, but really I didn't have any choice but to judge it the way I did.

 

[Questionmark]

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

You haven't actually been around kids in a while have you? Of course there are SOME kids that are stupid and lazy...what do you think adults thought about kids after they got done talking to you....but I think the new generation is one of the smartest to come in a while. It beats the Baby Boomers, anyway. (No offence)

 

[Savij]

So you're that guy who refuses to believe that a kid can put hard work and effort into making something really good. There is a kid out there crying because all his hard work and effort was "judged" to be the work of his parent.

You sir, made little Timmy lose his dream of designing cars. He will now turn to drugs to cope with his pain.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

The vast majority of the kids obviously did their own work, and I think they should all be really proud of their results.

I think they were all American, but I really can't be sure. Maybe these were brilliant German/Swiss/Japanese ringers that the parents imported just to win?

The kids who did the hard work are the ones who should be rewarded, but unfortunately the rules didn't allow it.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Questionmark

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

You haven't actually been around kids in a while have you? Of course there are SOME kids that are stupid and lazy...what do you think adults thought about kids after they got done talking to you....but I think the new generation is one of the smartest to come in a while. It beats the Baby Boomers, anyway. (No offence)

I seriously think he just says crap like that for attention. Either that, or it's the product of ignorance. I've only been subjected to it for a few days, but I'm pretty sure by now that it's one or the other.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

The vast majority of the kids obviously did their own work, and I think they should all be really proud of their results.

I think they were all American, but I really can't be sure. Maybe these were brilliant German/Swiss/Japanese ringers that the parents imported just to win?

The kids who did the hard work are the ones who should be rewarded, but unfortunately the rules didn't allow it.

LMAO

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: Savij
So you're that guy who refuses to believe that a kid can put hard work and effort into making something really good. There is a kid out there crying because all his hard work and effort was "judged" to be the work of his parent.

You sir, made little Timmy lose his dream of designing cars. He will now turn to drugs to cope with his pain.

I'm not saying that you are wrong. What I am saying is that it is highly unlikely that you are right.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

Its a huge generalization but the point still makes sense.
If parents would stop babying the kids and start parenting them the kids may turn out to be productive adults.

As for the pinewood derby, I have plenty of firsthad experience. Spent time as a cub, a scout, and a den leader. I learned that if the cars dont get made by parents they dont work too well. I think that idea started back in the Norman Rockwell days when fathers would teach their sons woodworking at a young age. Seems like most modern dads dont want to do that anymore. Either cuz they dont know how or dont want the kid messing with their tools. Modern kids would do better to make a PowerPoint or something.
We would do better to teach the boys woodcraft as part of the den meetings. But then we'd need all kinds of permission slips and specially trained safety supervisors and some parents wouldnt even let their sons do it because we'd be using metal objects capable of hurting someone and those objects are evil and they need to be banned and the supreme court should really do something about that.
Fvck it. I said it once back in the 90's and now its even more clear to me, "Political Correctness is going to kill the Scouts."

End Rant.

EDIT: Kind of Amusing this would be my Diamond Post.

 

[wvtalbot]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

The vast majority of the kids obviously did their own work, and I think they should all be really proud of their results.

I think they were all American, but I really can't be sure. Maybe these were brilliant German/Swiss/Japanese ringers that the parents imported just to win?

The kids who did the hard work are the ones who should be rewarded, but unfortunately the rules didn't allow it.

I spent 2 years teaching college classes at a major public university, the stupidity of the kids that went there amazed me. I was surprised some could tie their shoes.

10 years ago the U.S. ranked last in industrialized nations in standardized test scores. Now even some developing nations are beating out U.S. students, sorry but I don't have much hope for the future.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

The vast majority of the kids obviously did their own work, and I think they should all be really proud of their results.

I think they were all American, but I really can't be sure. Maybe these were brilliant German/Swiss/Japanese ringers that the parents imported just to win?

The kids who did the hard work are the ones who should be rewarded, but unfortunately the rules didn't allow it.

I spent 2 years teaching college classes at a major public university, the stupidity of the kids that went there amazed me. I was surprised some could tie their shoes.

10 years ago the U.S. ranked last in industrialized nations in standardized test scores. Now even some developing nations are beating out U.S. students, sorry but I don't have much hope for the future.

do you blame the kids for this or the parents?

 

[wvtalbot]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

The vast majority of the kids obviously did their own work, and I think they should all be really proud of their results.

I think they were all American, but I really can't be sure. Maybe these were brilliant German/Swiss/Japanese ringers that the parents imported just to win?

The kids who did the hard work are the ones who should be rewarded, but unfortunately the rules didn't allow it.

I spent 2 years teaching college classes at a major public university, the stupidity of the kids that went there amazed me. I was surprised some could tie their shoes.

10 years ago the U.S. ranked last in industrialized nations in standardized test scores. Now even some developing nations are beating out U.S. students, sorry but I don't have much hope for the future.

do you blame the kids for this or the parents?

The kids, the parents, the system, our entire culture. We glorify stupidity.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

Its a huge generalization but the point still makes sense.
If parents would stop babying the kids and start parenting them the kids may turn out to be productive adults.

It makes no more sense than saying most blacks are criminals after witnessing one hold up a liquor store.

 

[HBalzer]

On the other side if the parents took the time to do something with their kids that is a good thing. If the parent just took it and did it one night and said here son thats a shame!

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

The vast majority of the kids obviously did their own work, and I think they should all be really proud of their results.

I think they were all American, but I really can't be sure. Maybe these were brilliant German/Swiss/Japanese ringers that the parents imported just to win?

The kids who did the hard work are the ones who should be rewarded, but unfortunately the rules didn't allow it.

I spent 2 years teaching college classes at a major public university, the stupidity of the kids that went there amazed me. I was surprised some could tie their shoes.

10 years ago the U.S. ranked last in industrialized nations in standardized test scores. Now even some developing nations are beating out U.S. students, sorry but I don't have much hope for the future.

do you blame the kids for this or the parents?

The kids, the parents, the system, our entire culture. We glorify stupidity.

i'm not going to blame the kids. they were influenced by their parents. they were sheltered from disappointment by their parents and now don't know how to function on their own.

 

[wvtalbot]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

Its a huge generalization but the point still makes sense.
If parents would stop babying the kids and start parenting them the kids may turn out to be productive adults.

It makes no more sense than saying most blacks are criminals after witnessing one hold up a liquor store.

Fact is though said generalization has TONS of statistics to back it up. Our kids are getting dumber.

 

[HBalzer]

What I think is worse is parents taking all the responsibility from the kids. When they are 3 or 4 okay maybe they didn?t know better but when they are 14 and go out and vandalize or something the kid needs to take responsibility.

 

[wvtalbot]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

The vast majority of the kids obviously did their own work, and I think they should all be really proud of their results.

I think they were all American, but I really can't be sure. Maybe these were brilliant German/Swiss/Japanese ringers that the parents imported just to win?

The kids who did the hard work are the ones who should be rewarded, but unfortunately the rules didn't allow it.

I spent 2 years teaching college classes at a major public university, the stupidity of the kids that went there amazed me. I was surprised some could tie their shoes.

10 years ago the U.S. ranked last in industrialized nations in standardized test scores. Now even some developing nations are beating out U.S. students, sorry but I don't have much hope for the future.

do you blame the kids for this or the parents?

The kids, the parents, the system, our entire culture. We glorify stupidity.

i'm not going to blame the kids. they were influenced by their parents. they were sheltered from disappointment by their parents and now don't know how to function on their own.

I have a question though say you have two kids,

One with rich parents who bought them private school, the best tutors, music classes, sports, everything to nurture them.

Then you have a kid who grew up in the ghetto with nothing.

Both these kids have the same grades and SAT scores, which kid would you rather admit into your college?

Fact is there are kids who can make themselves exceptions to the rules, you can't blame your entire life on your parenting.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Its sad to say but most American children are stupid and lazy, scary to think how poorly they will compete in a world economy some day.

Generalize much?

Its a huge generalization but the point still makes sense.
If parents would stop babying the kids and start parenting them the kids may turn out to be productive adults.

It makes no more sense than saying most blacks are criminals after witnessing one hold up a liquor store.

Fact is though said generalization has TONS of statistics to back it up. Our kids are getting dumber.

Well, I can't get into a debate about the current state of our kids' abilities because, frankly, I have zero data that points one way or the other. However, the people around me (friends, family, etc) are raising very intelligent and able children. To say "most kids are lazy and stupid" is to really sell a lot of people short.