Theoretical Physicist Garrett Lisi Unified Field Theory

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ear...7/11/14/scisurf114.xml

that he surfs is interesting, but having a PhD in theoretical physics,
his math skills are probabably pretty good.

seems to have drawn attention & praise from a lot of the scientific community.

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"He has high hopes that his new theory could provide what he says is a "radical new explanation" for the three decade old Standard Model, which weaves together three of the four fundamental forces of nature: the electromagnetic force; the strong force, which binds quarks together in atomic nuclei; and the weak force, which controls radioactive decay.

The reason for the excitement is that Lisi's model also takes account of gravity, a force that has only successfully been included by a rival and highly fashionable idea called string theory, one that proposes particles are made up of minute strings, which is highly complex and elegant but has lacked predictions by which to do experiments to see if it works.

But some are taking a cooler view. Prof Marcus du Sautoy, of Oxford University and author of Finding Moonshine, told the Telegraph: "The proposal in this paper looks a long shot and there seem to be a lot things still to fill in."

And a colleague Eric Weinstein in America added: "Lisi seems like a hell of a guy. I'd love to meet him. But my friend Lee Smolin is betting on a very very long shot."

Lisi's inspiration lies in the most elegant and intricate shape known to mathematics, called E8 - a complex, eight-dimensional mathematical pattern with 248 points first found in 1887, but only fully understood by mathematicians this year after workings, that, if written out in tiny print, would cover an area the size of Manhattan.

E8 encapsulates the symmetries of a geometric object that is 57-dimensional and is itself is 248-dimensional. Lisi says "I think our universe is this beautiful shape."

What makes E8 so exciting is that Nature also seems to have embedded it at the heart of many bits of physics. One interpretation of why we have such a quirky list of fundamental particles is because they all result from different facets of the strange symmetries of E8.

Lisi's breakthrough came when he noticed that some of the equations describing E8's structure matched his own. "My brain exploded with the implications and the beauty of the thing," he tells New Scientist. "I thought: 'Holy crap, that's it!'"

What Lisi had realised was that he could find a way to place the various elementary particles and forces on E8's 248 points. What remained was 20 gaps which he filled with notional particles, for example those that some physicists predict to be associated with gravity.

Physicists have long puzzled over why elementary particles appear to belong to families, but this arises naturally from the geometry of E8, he says. So far, all the interactions predicted by the complex geometrical relationships inside E8 match with observations in the real world. "How cool is that?" he says."
 

BrownTown

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Dec 1, 2005
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OK, well since the closest any of us are to being theoretical physicists is playing Gordon Freeman in Half Life I'm gonna go ahead and say that absolutely nobody here has any idea whether or not there is any truth to this theory. Having said that, at least people out there are trying and apparently those absurdly expensive supercolliders actually do something slightly useful so thats good to know that at least we have ways of actually testing these hypothesis and such.
 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
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i wonder if this will result in a distributed computing
project like Folding@H ?

i'd like to see a bigger image of that "mandala-gram", the
super-Spirograph looking thing.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
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Right now there is a glut of theories in high energy. LHC is expected to find SOMETHING new, and the guy who came out with the theory beforehand predicting a particle with mass M being found is gonna be one famous dude.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: BrownTown
OK, well since the closest any of us are to being theoretical physicists is playing Gordon Freeman in Half Life I'm gonna go ahead and say that absolutely nobody here has any idea whether or not there is any truth to this theory. Having said that, at least people out there are trying and apparently those absurdly expensive supercolliders actually do something slightly useful so thats good to know that at least we have ways of actually testing these hypothesis and such.

I'm pursuing an undergrad degree in physics, I'd say that's slightly closer than playing Gordon Freeman.
If I go for a grad degree, I'll be even closer.

That said, I'll readily admit that I don't understand the more advanced physics topics very well, nor upper levels of math. Also, there's no way in heck I'd ever pursue a degree in theoretical physics.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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Originally posted by: Fox5
I'm pursuing an undergrad degree in physics, I'd say that's slightly closer than playing Gordon Freeman.
If I go for a grad degree, I'll be even closer.

That said, I'll readily admit that I don't understand the more advanced physics topics very well, nor upper levels of math. Also, there's no way in heck I'd ever pursue a degree in theoretical physics.
If BT doesn't understand something, he'll assume that no one else here does either. He'll also assume that if he does understand something. There are, in fact, physicists with advanced degrees that visit HT (or, did until recently... not sure what happened to them :eek:).
 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
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I'm pursuing an undergrad degree in physics, I'd say that's slightly closer than playing Gordon Freeman.
If I go for a grad degree, I'll be even closer.

That said, I'll readily admit that I don't understand the more advanced physics topics very well, nor upper levels of math. Also, there's no way in heck I'd ever pursue a degree in theoretical physics.

i can recommend SLAC, Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, as a
place to work. i worked there as an engineering student.
 

SsupernovaE

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2006
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Originally posted by: Nathelion
Okay, I have a BS in physics, but I think this may be over my head.

Pun intended:)?

Yeah, you really need a Ph.D. to get anywhere in the field.

Anyhow, it seems that this is an attempt to explain gravity how the standard model explains particle physics: symmetry groups. I understand them, but this E8 structure would probably take me quite a while to grasp.
 

jbzx86

Junior Member
Aug 31, 2007
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So George Lucas really was on to something with Star Wars, eh? Minus the "mitochondrias" of course.

From what I could grasp, this shape resembles that of an intricate spider web, where every point is connected. Therefore, all forces stemmed from one single source. So, we still have yet to understand the most simplistic, base particle. Even so, this is a step in the right direction. After all, gravity cannot be some "invisible" force.
 

bobsmith1492

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2004
3,875
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So, I read the paper, not knowing what any of the variables meant, and some of the response articles...

Essentially there are some predictions of new particle types that can be teased out of the math, in time, and found experimentally to verify the theory? It also sounds like the math isn't complete yet but the framework is there?

Also, could it just be media hype over a bit of nonsense because the guy also surfs and snowboards and it makes a cool story? Dah, I hate it when this happens. :( Almost makes me want to start into physics again but that's quite a few years of study right there...
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
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Sounds cool. That's about as authoritative as I can be lol. Still, the more theories the better. Eventually, one of them will turn out to be right. This simply increases our chances of finding the correct theory.

I'd love to go into theoretical physics, but there's no real jobs there until the PhD level. Then again, I'd major in every field if I had a few lifetimes and a photographic memory, so I kinda feel that way about everything. Finally decided on a CE/BIO double major (planning to go into biomed at grad level), but I'm also fascinated with space travel, so I might try some insane triple major and add Aerospace Engineering to the list. That about covers my more major interests. Rather depressing knowing that regardless of what I major in, I'll miss out on something. :(

And yes, I realize my post has little to do with the thread :p
 

firewolfsm

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2005
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Originally posted by: TuxDave
*jealous* I would love to get inspirations like those.

He was probably on acid when this inspiration came to him.

Even if he wasn't, some advice for you. LSD WILL expand your creativity and help you understand new concepts. Try it.
 

perzy

Junior Member
Dec 19, 2007
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Originally posted by: firewolfsm
Originally posted by: TuxDave
*jealous* I would love to get inspirations like those.

He was probably on acid when this inspiration came to him.

Even if he wasn't, some advice for you. LSD WILL expand your creativity and help you understand new concepts. Try it.

No thank you. Misunderstand new concepts maybe. Drugs just destroy both the brain and your creativity.
This is not the place for your drug propaganda!