"The Worst Economy since the Great Depression"

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Haha, you guys bought that, "we need that 700 billion dollars so that we can continue to lend money" hook, line, and sinker.

Who is 'you guys'? the public was overwhelmingly against it.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
The declines in inflation and potential deflation are less to do with energy and food and much more to do with the contraction of credit and the money supply.

Speaking of that, you work in finance, right?

When the fuck are the banks going to really start lending again?
Isn't that their core business (borrow money from the fed, re-lend it at a higher rate than you borrowed it at)?
How are they able to just stop (or severely slow down) doing this?

When their masters tell them they can. Importing large volumes of shit from China takes Cash or a letter of credit.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Why should they lend now? The dollar is being destroyed. Now is not the time you want to be owed money.

Dollar index is showing pretty good gains from 2 years ago. Your DOOM DOOM DOOM is silly when taken in real context.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan
Ron Paul and Peter Schiff to the rescue! :laugh:

They tried, no one listened.

That's because they cried wolf about a thousand times since they were born. Eventually shit happens and they claim they were right. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre
Why should they lend now? The dollar is being destroyed. Now is not the time you want to be owed money.

Dollar index is showing pretty good gains from 2 years ago. Your DOOM DOOM DOOM is silly when taken in real context.

It isn't likely to stay there. How much "new money" has the US created in the past 8 years?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre
Why should they lend now? The dollar is being destroyed. Now is not the time you want to be owed money.

Dollar index is showing pretty good gains from 2 years ago. Your DOOM DOOM DOOM is silly when taken in real context.

It isn't likely to stay there. How much "new money" has the US created in the past 8 years?

You answer your own question since you constantly make the assertion that it's a lot. Then, put that in context of demand for that money and the velocity of it.

 

[TheInternet1980]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Haha, you guys bought that, "we need that 700 billion dollars so that we can continue to lend money" hook, line, and sinker.

I'm not seeing the humor here. I'm all for questioning authority, etc. To say the public "bought" this, is incredibly unfair. Well, in a way we did buy it, it was our tax dollars after all. But we never had a chance to endorse or not endorse this plan.

 

[DealMonkey]

Here's a pretty big record that's been busted:

Worst year for jobs since '45
Annual loss biggest since end of World War II. Unemployment rate rises to 7.2%.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The hemorrhaging of American jobs accelerated at a record pace at the end of 2008, bringing the year's total job losses to 2.6 million or the highest level in more than six decades.

A sobering U.S. Labor Department jobs report Friday showed the economy lost 524,000 jobs in December and 1.9 million in the year's final four months, after the credit crisis began in September.

The unemployment rate rose to 7.2% last month from 6.7% in November - its highest rate since January 1993.

The steep annual drop in jobs marked the highest yearly job-loss total since 1945, the year in which World War II ended.

Link

Biggest job loss since WWII you say? Nah, this couldn't mean anything, right Al?

 

[OrByte]

The 'boom' is right around the corner.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Here's a pretty big record that's been busted:

Worst year for jobs since '45
Annual loss biggest since end of World War II. Unemployment rate rises to 7.2%.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The hemorrhaging of American jobs accelerated at a record pace at the end of 2008, bringing the year's total job losses to 2.6 million or the highest level in more than six decades.

A sobering U.S. Labor Department jobs report Friday showed the economy lost 524,000 jobs in December and 1.9 million in the year's final four months, after the credit crisis began in September.

The unemployment rate rose to 7.2% last month from 6.7% in November - its highest rate since January 1993.

The steep annual drop in jobs marked the highest yearly job-loss total since 1945, the year in which World War II ended.

Link

Biggest job loss since WWII you say? Nah, this couldn't mean anything, right Al?

No it doesn't. So says the one that furnished the info.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

In percentage terms, the U.S. lost 1.9% of its payroll employment in 2008, according to data released Jan. 9. That's bad, all right. But it was only the fifth-worst on the list behind 1945 (6.6%), 1949 (3.4%), 1982 (2.3%), and 1944 (2.1%). That's according to calculations by Harm Bandholz, an economist at UniCredit Group in New York. Bandholz, by the way, was one of the people who highlighted the "worst since 1945" in his research report headline.

Link

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Here's a pretty big record that's been busted:

Worst year for jobs since '45
Annual loss biggest since end of World War II. Unemployment rate rises to 7.2%.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The hemorrhaging of American jobs accelerated at a record pace at the end of 2008, bringing the year's total job losses to 2.6 million or the highest level in more than six decades.

A sobering U.S. Labor Department jobs report Friday showed the economy lost 524,000 jobs in December and 1.9 million in the year's final four months, after the credit crisis began in September.

The unemployment rate rose to 7.2% last month from 6.7% in November - its highest rate since January 1993.

The steep annual drop in jobs marked the highest yearly job-loss total since 1945, the year in which World War II ended.

Link

Biggest job loss since WWII you say? Nah, this couldn't mean anything, right Al?

No it doesn't. So says the one that furnished the info.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

In percentage terms, the U.S. lost 1.9% of its payroll employment in 2008, according to data released Jan. 9. That's bad, all right. But it was only the fifth-worst on the list behind 1945 (6.6%), 1949 (3.4%), 1982 (2.3%), and 1944 (2.1%). That's according to calculations by Harm Bandholz, an economist at UniCredit Group in New York. Bandholz, by the way, was one of the people who highlighted the "worst since 1945" in his research report headline.

Link

Sure, let's shift the metric so everything looks OK!

Look, I'm no fear-monger, but nearly 3,000,000 jobs lost in '08 doesn't exactly bode well for our economy. And even as Bandholz admits, it could get worse.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Here's a pretty big record that's been busted:

Worst year for jobs since '45
Annual loss biggest since end of World War II. Unemployment rate rises to 7.2%.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The hemorrhaging of American jobs accelerated at a record pace at the end of 2008, bringing the year's total job losses to 2.6 million or the highest level in more than six decades.

A sobering U.S. Labor Department jobs report Friday showed the economy lost 524,000 jobs in December and 1.9 million in the year's final four months, after the credit crisis began in September.

The unemployment rate rose to 7.2% last month from 6.7% in November - its highest rate since January 1993.

The steep annual drop in jobs marked the highest yearly job-loss total since 1945, the year in which World War II ended.

Link

Biggest job loss since WWII you say? Nah, this couldn't mean anything, right Al?

No it doesn't. So says the one that furnished the info.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

In percentage terms, the U.S. lost 1.9% of its payroll employment in 2008, according to data released Jan. 9. That's bad, all right. But it was only the fifth-worst on the list behind 1945 (6.6%), 1949 (3.4%), 1982 (2.3%), and 1944 (2.1%). That's according to calculations by Harm Bandholz, an economist at UniCredit Group in New York. Bandholz, by the way, was one of the people who highlighted the "worst since 1945" in his research report headline.

Link

Sure, let's shift the metric so everything looks OK!

Look, I'm no fear-monger, but nearly 3,000,000 jobs lost in '08 doesn't exactly bode well for our economy. And even as Bandholz admits, it could get worse.

Okay, how about shift it so that it isn't disinformation?

Anyway, it doesn't matter about the job losses, because likely the jobs that were lost were those low paying jobs that you were bitching about 6 years ago,,,, you know the ones that the Bush economy took credit for.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Zebo
First of all that huge prosperity our parents experienced 1950-1980ish was a gift because we destroyed all competition in WWII and as and added bonus Russia, China and a lot of SE ASIA were communists afterwards. W/O competition our goods and knowhow was in demand shipped around the world etc.

That is an interesting point. If America was so prosperous due to limited competition / large communist countries, why on earth have we been trying for the last 25 years to ship our jobs/skills out and create democracies out of communism/dictatorships?

Makes you think twice about the wisdom of "promoting democracy abroad" that the 'pubs are so proud of.

Nothing wrong with promoting Democracy. However, the part about shipping out our jobs is plain altruism and religiously-like-held faith in free market economics. Remember, a lot of people have swallowed that dogma hook, line, and sinker.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Okay, how about shift it so that it isn't disinformation?

Anyway, it doesn't matter about the job losses, because likely the jobs that were lost were those low paying jobs that you were bitching about 6 years ago,,,, you know the ones that the Bush economy took credit for.

Well that's awful white of you! I'm sure the nearly 3,000,000 who lost jobs in '08 (including 1/2 a million who lost them from Thanksgiving to New Year's Day) don't feel the same as you.

 

[Jhhnn]

Fluffing and puffing yourself up in the creation of low-pay jobs is one thing, losing that job and not being able to find another are entirely different matters, Ozoned.

Try a little intellectual honesty- it'd look good on you.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Haha, you guys bought that, "we need that 700 billion dollars so that we can continue to lend money" hook, line, and sinker.

No, I didn't.

On a political note, I'm somewhat concerned that Obama will get the blame for a lot of the mess coming.

With the great depression, the crash happened in 1929 and FDR took office in 1933 - plenty of time for the blame to be assigned.

With this crash mostly starting only 4 months before Obama, he'll face a lot more problems.

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Haha, you guys bought that, "we need that 700 billion dollars so that we can continue to lend money" hook, line, and sinker.

No, I didn't.

On a political note, I'm somewhat concerned that Obama will get the blame for a lot of the mess coming.

With the great depression, the crash happened in 1929 and FDR took office in 1933 - plenty of time for the blame to be assigned.

With this crash mostly starting only 4 months before Obama, he'll face a lot more problems.

It started long before that, Craig234, and anybody who was actually paying attention knows it. The handwriting was on the wall for at least a year before, from Oct 2007 forward.

Check the timeline, here-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U..._States_housing_bubble

And even earlier than that, from June of 2006 when Bear Stearns hedge funds went tits-up...

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan
Ron Paul and Peter Schiff to the rescue! :laugh:

They tried, no one listened.

That's because they cried wolf about a thousand times since they were born. Eventually shit happens and they claim they were right. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that.

You always put down everyone else's opinion and talk like you know everything but the fact of the matter is, you didn't see this coming and those guys did. You don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan
Ron Paul and Peter Schiff to the rescue! :laugh:

They tried, no one listened.

That's because they cried wolf about a thousand times since they were born. Eventually shit happens and they claim they were right. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that.

You always put down everyone else's opinion and talk like you know everything but the fact of the matter is, you didn't see this coming and those guys did. You don't have a leg to stand on.

ROFL. I was calling this shit 3 years before Schiff.

However, Ron Paul was calling in about a year before I was born. Joke's on him.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: zephyrprime

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan
Ron Paul and Peter Schiff to the rescue! :laugh:

They tried, no one listened.

That's because they cried wolf about a thousand times since they were born. Eventually shit happens and they claim they were right. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that.

You always put down everyone else's opinion and talk like you know everything but the fact of the matter is, you didn't see this coming and those guys did. You don't have a leg to stand on.

ROFL. I was calling this shit 3 years before Schiff.

However, Ron Paul was calling in about a year before I was born. Joke's on him.

And I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that our current economic woes are the culmination of 30 years of unsustainable economic activity in the form of a offshoring of manufacturing and a credit based American lifestyle...

No it must be that you know everything, and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. As I said in other thread, you think you're omnipotent. I'd be more inclined to believe you're impotent.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: zephyrprime

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan
Ron Paul and Peter Schiff to the rescue! :laugh:

They tried, no one listened.

That's because they cried wolf about a thousand times since they were born. Eventually shit happens and they claim they were right. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that.

You always put down everyone else's opinion and talk like you know everything but the fact of the matter is, you didn't see this coming and those guys did. You don't have a leg to stand on.

ROFL. I was calling this shit 3 years before Schiff.

However, Ron Paul was calling in about a year before I was born. Joke's on him.

And I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that our current economic woes are the culmination of 30 years of unsustainable economic activity in the form of a offshoring of manufacturing and a credit based American lifestyle...

No it must be that you know everything, and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. As I said in other thread, you think you're omnipotent. I'd be more inclined to believe you're impotent.

No, it has nothing to do with being unsustainable, as we have lived a quite sustainable life until the last 5 years or so. You blame offshoring, but that's not the problem.

There's not many who disagree with me that are right. I know you're jealous and impotent to counter me. That's why you resort to sniping and trolling in my threads rather than trying to counter my arguments. You've lost so your only way to counter is to devolve into this tripe.

 

[Starbuck1975]

And I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that our current economic woes are the culmination of 30 years of unsustainable economic activity in the form of a offshoring of manufacturing and a credit based American lifestyle...

The global economy is a reality that America cannot ignore, but I think it is open to debate whether or not we are taking the necessary steps to compete under this new reality...economic isolationism doesn't work...never has, never will.

The true problem is that Americans got a nice healthy dose of speculative market easy money during the dot.com era...that bubble did burst, but our society moved on to the next speculative market, real estate, rather than learning the lessons of fiscal restraint.

 

[nergee]

Originally posted by: nergee

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: RichardE
The last job I got was after 2 months of searching and I only got it after the owner put a sign in the window and I saw him do it and walked in. Literally 2minutes after the sign was put in I was there.


Also, I don't trust the current unemployment numbers, U6 numbers are more accurate imo and they are way over 10%

U6 numbers have their own problems, namely, there is always a % of the population looking for full time jobs. A number of other huge problems exist with the number. Neither is a better indicator, as both have pitfalls and should be analyzed independently.

Current U-6 (Seasonally adjusted) is 12.5% and rising rapidly. I expect U-6 to hit 15-17%. Depression condition? You bet it is.....

There is no official definition of depression. Here is what I think though:

When the U-6 unemployment rate rises above 12.5 along with a stock
market cut down almost in half, the CPI is negative, and nominal wages
are stagnant, it's an economic depression. We are in one.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: nergee

Originally posted by: nergee

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: RichardE
The last job I got was after 2 months of searching and I only got it after the owner put a sign in the window and I saw him do it and walked in. Literally 2minutes after the sign was put in I was there.


Also, I don't trust the current unemployment numbers, U6 numbers are more accurate imo and they are way over 10%

U6 numbers have their own problems, namely, there is always a % of the population looking for full time jobs. A number of other huge problems exist with the number. Neither is a better indicator, as both have pitfalls and should be analyzed independently.

Current U-6 (Seasonally adjusted) is 12.5% and rising rapidly. I expect U-6 to hit 15-17%. Depression condition? You bet it is.....

There is no official definition of depression. Here is what I think though:

When the U-6 unemployment rate rises above 12.5 along with a stock
market cut down almost in half, the CPI is negative, and nominal wages
are stagnant, it's an economic depression. We are in one.

Did you pull that straight from Mish's website or some other one? That's a pretty pathetic copy if so....hey...wait...here's his website quote.

There is no official definition of depression. Here is mine: When the U-6 unemployment rate rises above 12.5 in conjunction with a stock market that is down close to 50%, the CPI is negative, and nominal wages are stagnant, it's an economic depression. We are in one.


Wow, great original thoughts.

Do you have any thoughts of your own? Or do you simply chew another cow's cud your whole life?

 

[Deviant Grasshopper]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: nergee

Originally posted by: nergee

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: RichardE
The last job I got was after 2 months of searching and I only got it after the owner put a sign in the window and I saw him do it and walked in. Literally 2minutes after the sign was put in I was there.


Also, I don't trust the current unemployment numbers, U6 numbers are more accurate imo and they are way over 10%

U6 numbers have their own problems, namely, there is always a % of the population looking for full time jobs. A number of other huge problems exist with the number. Neither is a better indicator, as both have pitfalls and should be analyzed independently.

Current U-6 (Seasonally adjusted) is 12.5% and rising rapidly. I expect U-6 to hit 15-17%. Depression condition? You bet it is.....

There is no official definition of depression. Here is what I think though:

When the U-6 unemployment rate rises above 12.5 along with a stock
market cut down almost in half, the CPI is negative, and nominal wages
are stagnant, it's an economic depression. We are in one.

Did you pull that straight from Mish's website or some other one? That's a pretty pathetic copy if so....hey...wait...here's his website quote.

There is no official definition of depression. Here is mine: When the U-6 unemployment rate rises above 12.5 in conjunction with a stock market that is down close to 50%, the CPI is negative, and nominal wages are stagnant, it's an economic depression. We are in one.


Wow, great original thoughts.

Do you have any thoughts of your own? Or do you simply chew another cow's cud your whole life?

Yeah wow...