The Witcher II DRM . . . SecuROM

[reallyscrued]

Sure, shoot me a PM with all these irrefutable links of yours. But how is that going to prove your point that a simple disc check is going to stop 'most' of the pirates out there.

Hey, genius, how about posting some evidence that proves that DRM does anything, at all, to prevent piracy?

Name one game I can't just torrent with the click of a few mouse buttons.

I'll wait.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Hey, genius, how about posting some evidence that proves that DRM does anything, at all, to prevent piracy?

Name one game I can't just torrent with the click of a few mouse buttons.

I'll wait.

Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory took over a year to crack. They did eventually crack it but anyone who actually likes the series and wanted to play that game would have had to wait a long time to play it unless they bought it.

Also pretty much every multiplayer game.

 

[mindcycle]

Sure, shoot me a PM with all these irrefutable links of yours. But how is that going to prove your point that a simple disc check is going to stop 'most' of the pirates out there.

It's not. The nfo databases simply show that every PC game has and will be pirated. I won't post the link, but just type nfohump into google. I'm using that example to simply point out that these aggressive protection schemes are not needed.

A simple disc check will stop most casual piracy (for retail discs) as you can't simply have your friend install and play the game. You'd need the disc in order to play the game, so your friend can give you the game after he's done, but you can't just install it and be on your way. That's going to stop most casual piracy, unless that person is savvy enough to go online and find a crack, or download a pirated version, in which case that person falls outside of "casual". I'm talking about the average computer user here, which is a category most PC users fall into. Just search google for evidence on that fact.

A disc check isn't going to stop other forms of piracy, like torrents, the asian black market, etc.. nor am I claiming it will. I'm simply saying a disc check on retail versions is enough. Having securom phoning home isn't doing anything but annoying legit customers and IMO is an unneeded waste of money for the publisher.

 

[sigurros81]

It's not. The nfo databases simply show that every PC game has and will be pirated. I won't post the link, but just type nfohump into google. I'm using that example to simply point out that these aggressive protection schemes are not needed.

A simple disc check will stop most casual piracy (for retail discs) as you can't simply have your friend install and play the game. You'd need the disc in order to play the game, so your friend can give you the game after he's done, but you can't just install it and be on your way. That's going to stop most casual piracy, unless that person is savvy enough to go online and find a crack, or download a pirated version, in which case that person falls outside of "casual". I'm talking about the average computer user here, which is a category most PC users fall into. Just search google for evidence on that fact.

A disc check isn't going to stop other forms of piracy, like torrents, the asian black market, etc.. nor am I claiming it will. I'm simply saying a disc check on retail versions is enough. Having securom phoning home isn't doing anything but annoying legit customers and IMO is an unneeded waste of money for the publisher.

So by your logic, let me lay it out like this. You don't leave your door open when you leave your house for work in the morning. Having your door close is a form of deterrence to keep would be thieves from breaking into your house. Now, you take it a step further by LOCKING your house, to further deter the thieves who may be nervous about actually breaking into a locked house.

Same principle with these SecureROM, it's a form of deterrence to help developers protect their I.P. I'm not going to throw out random numbers and percentages because as you said, every games are piratable, it's just a matter of how hard developers can make it for their game to be pirated.

I know that if a thief is so inclined, they can break into my house, but I sure as hell am going to try my best to make sure that thief doesn't. You dig?

 

[skace]

Real world comparisons to piracy are pretty much always really, really bad for your argument. Just FYI.

 

[Fenixgoon]

just buy TW2 from GOG. no DRM.

 

[sigurros81]

Real world comparisons to piracy are pretty much always really, really bad for your argument. Just FYI.

Thanks for the heads up, you've changed my entire outlook on life.

 

[mindcycle]

So by your logic, let me lay it out like this. You don't leave your door open when you leave your house for work in the morning. Having your door close is a form of deterrence to keep would be thieves from breaking into your house. Now, you take it a step further by LOCKING your house, to further deter the thieves who may be nervous about actually breaking into a locked house.

Same principle with these SecureROM, it's a form of deterrence to help developers protect their I.P. I'm not going to throw out random numbers and percentages because as you said, every games are piratable, it's just a matter of how hard developers can make it for their game to be pirated.

I know that if a thief is so inclined, they can break into my house, but I sure as hell am going to try my best to make sure that thief doesn't. You dig?

Your analogy doesn't work. You lock your doors to protect your house and belongings. DRM doesn't protect you or your belongings (the software you bought), it attempts to protect the publishers belongings. DRM has no benefit to you as a customer so i'm not sure why you would suggest that DRM is somehow the same as locking the doors on your house. Locking the doors at the publishers house, yes..

 

[skace]

Thanks for the heads up, you've changed my entire outlook on life.

Sigh, be a smart ass about it, you'll find out shortly how wrong you are- oops look it already happened. I'm not here to educate you, I just figured you might actually want to post an argument that you could actually win.

 

[sigurros81]

Your analogy doesn't work. You lock your doors to protect your house and belongings. DRM doesn't protect you or your belongings (the software you bought), it attempts to protect the publishers belongings. DRM has no benefit to you as a customer so i'm not sure why you would suggest that DRM is somehow the same as locking the doors on your house. Locking the doors at the publishers house, yes..

Why would I want DRM to protect my software that I bought--You need to read what I write with a bit more attention:

"Same principle with these SecureROM, it's a form of deterrence to help developers protect their I.P. ...it's just a matter of how hard developers can make it for their game to be pirated."

Bottom line is, I found your original comment laughable saying that a simple CD check is the best weapon against piracy. You'd think the entire gaming industry would jump on that bandwagon if that was actually the case...actually that band wagon flipped over back in the 90s and 00s.

 

[Powermoloch]

I'm all for simple disk checks, it's less intrusive (just insert disk) and it has been done years before. I don't know why people are still butthurt about it.

 

[mindcycle]

Why would I want DRM to protect my software that I bought--You need to read what I write with a bit more attention:

"Same principle with these SecureROM, it's a form of deterrence to help developers protect their I.P. ...it's just a matter of how hard developers can make it for their game to be pirated."

I did read your post, yet I fail to see how locking doors on "your" house can be compared to DRM used on a video game. I get a tangible benefit from locking doors on my house, but I don't get the same benefit from having online auth check DRM on my game. Totally different concepts there that benefit two separate entities. I see how you're trying to link the two, but unfortunately it doesn't work.

Bottom line is, I found your original comment laughable saying that a simple CD check is the best weapon against piracy.

So in your opinion what is the best weapon against piracy? More DRM? And if you read my posts correctly I said that a simple cd check is good enough to protect casual game piracy of retail discs, which is what the referenced article is talking about. Not once did I say it was the best weapon against all piracy.

You'd think the entire gaming industry would jump on that bandwagon if that was actually the case...actually that band wagon flipped over back in the 90s and 00s.

Yes, and the stringent DRM used in the 90's and 00's has largely been eliminated. How many current PC games still include install limits? How about a constant online connection? Online auth SecuROM isn't actually so bad IMO, as I own a few titles which use it. It's just pointless..

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Eh, you know, if my choices are online authentication DRM without needing to have the disc in the drive, or no DRM but disc required.....I'm going with the DRM.

 

[sigurros81]

I did read your post, yet I fail to see how locking doors on "your" house can be compared to DRM used on a video game. I get a tangible benefit from locking doors on my house, but I don't get the same benefit from having online auth check DRM on my game. Totally different concepts there that benefit two separate entities. I see how you're trying to link the two, but unfortunately it doesn't work.



So in your opinion what is the best weapon against piracy? More DRM? And if you read my posts correctly I said that a simple cd check is good enough to protect casual game piracy of retail discs, which is what the referenced article is talking about. Not once did I say it was the best weapon against all piracy.



Yes, and the stringent DRM used in the 90's and 00's has largely been eliminated. How many current PC games still include install limits? How about a constant online connection? Online auth SecuROM isn't actually so bad IMO, as I own a few titles which use it. It's just pointless..

Man you're denser than a rock. In simple terms for you--a game company's DRM is their way of locking away thieves from stealing their games, like you locking your door to keep thieves from breaking in. Game companies are doing what they can to protect their products. No where did I say you, as a consumer benefit from DRM, but with the amount of piracy that happens, one can empathize with a company that's losing a lot of potential profit to thievery. Durka durka?

 

[mindcycle]

Man you're denser than a rock. In simple terms for you--a game company's DRM is their way of locking away thieves from stealing their games, like you locking your door to keep thieves from breaking in. Game companies are doing what they can to protect their products. No where did I say you, as a consumer benefit from DRM, but with the amount of piracy that happens, one can empathize with a company that's losing a lot of potential profit to thievery. Durka durka?

Lol, it's clear you're running out of valid arguments when you start resorting to personal attacks.

 

[KaOTiK]

Just buy it from GoG, you get more free stuff then anywhere else, drm free, and the dev gets most of the money. GoG is great.

 

[Raduque]

Some people don't like Rootkits/Spyware/Malware/Big Brother/Etc. on their computer.

It's an argument that goes on here quite a bit, and there's just no making people see the sense (or lack thereof) of not having these types of applications intruding on their daily lives.

I have SecuROM on my computer. It does not intrude into my daily life.

 

[sigurros81]

Lol, it's clear you're running out of valid arguments when you start resorting to personal attacks.

I've started the personal attacks from the get go as you're obviously quite idiotic. But I don't think they're personal attacks as much as they're stating the fact....yeah, a simple CD check is the best method of anti-piracy there is...lol...check out the brain on Brad.

 

[Mike Gayner]

*yawn*

 

[Dumac]

Lol, it's clear you're running out of valid arguments when you start resorting to personal attacks.

No, I think you just can't understand a simple analogy. It was pretty obvious to me.

DRM isn't for the (direct) benefit of the consumer, but of the publisher/producer.

 

[DeathReborn]

This basically means I have to choose between my already pre-ordered Collectors Edition (complete with Geralt's head) complete with a DRM infestation (I consider DRM to be a disease & piracy an excuse for puyblishers) or get a standard version from GoG and not get the infection.

Surely they should allow the key to be used for a download version so they don't stiff their customers.

 

[Martimus]

Your analogy doesn't work. You lock your doors to protect your house and belongings. DRM doesn't protect you or your belongings (the software you bought), it attempts to protect the publishers belongings. DRM has no benefit to you as a customer so i'm not sure why you would suggest that DRM is somehow the same as locking the doors on your house. Locking the doors at the publishers house, yes..

Locking my doors doesn't protect my neighbors or freinds either, it protects me. Same as DRM doesn't protect the consumer, it protects the publisher.

That said, pirates are tenacious and will try to break any lock they can. To some it seems pointless to even try to stop it. Might as well not even publish the game on the PC, if you have to go to those great lengths to keep people from stealing it, right?

I hate DRM. I bought Dragon Age Ultimate Edition, and the DRM kep tme from being able to play it for a week, since the EA server was down that authenticates the game. I moved on to a different game, and still haven;t played Dragon Age, but the experience pissed me off. It wasn't even that I couldn't play the game, but the number of hoops I had to jump through even if their system was up and running properly. I literally had to create an account and register each portion of the DLC that came with the game, which took me a good half hour to do even before the additional hours trying to figure out why it still didn't work.

I understand the need to protect your property, but when you are running a business and trying to sell that property to people, you can't make using that property painful to the people who bought it. I know after that experience that I don't want to ever buy another EA game. Even if the game is free, I don't want to have to go through the hoops I had to go through in Dragon Age ever again.

 

[BladeVenom]

The DRM is absolutely pointless. There will be torrents for the game on day one, or earlier. SecuROM won't stop anyone with an internet connection who wants to pirate it.

CD Projekt obviously realizes this, even if publishers have yet to figure it out.

 

[mindcycle]

Locking my doors doesn't protect my neighbors or freinds either, it protects me. Same as DRM doesn't protect the consumer, it protects the publisher.

Thanks for posting that. I'm glad someone here is able to comprehend a reply written in plain english.

That said, pirates are tenacious and will try to break any lock they can. To some it seems pointless to even try to stop it. Might as well not even publish the game on the PC, if you have to go to those great lengths to keep people from stealing it, right?

 

[CVSiN]

Thanks for posting that. I'm glad someone here is able to comprehend a reply written in plain english.

Apparently you don't follow the console pirate scene.
it is just as bad on the console side and pretty much just as easy.
mods are cheap and easy to get and so are the ISOs.

To blame piracy just on the PC is retarded.