The Windows XP flame war must end!

[Electrode]

It's hard to believe that after all this time, there are still flame wars raging on in any thread that has anything to do with Windows XP. Most of the time, it's just a troll looking to have some fun, but there are probably people who still just don't realize that Windows XP isn't evil incarnate.

First, I'll address the rumors:
1. Windows XP is NOT SPYWARE! It doesn't tell MS anything!
2. Windows XP will NOT encrypt your MP3 collection, sent it all to MS, or do anything like that!
3. You do not have to sign up for a passport, or use the .NET thing.
4. It doesn't covertly download updates without your permission. It has an auto-update feature, but it asks you if you want to apply updates, and you can disable it altogether.

Next, a little about its features:
1. The new interface can be disabled with a few mouse clicks if you don't like it.
2. The auto updates are on by default, but it asks you if you want to apply updates, and you can disable it.
3. No one is forcing you to use WMP8 or IE6. I use Winamp and Mozilla, they work nicely.
4. Activation isn't all that bad. If you have a legit copy it's a non-issue, you just hit the "activate" button on your first login and it's done. If you have a pirated copy, some registry hacking will get you through it.

There are also some features you might not know about:
1. Automatic NTP time synchronization. You can use any server you want, even one on your LAN. This can be disabled.
2. New start menu. Looks cute, but not my cup of tea. Very easy to go back to the old style.
3. 256+ color tray icons. Trust me, you'll like it.

Windows XP has a lot of just plain cool stuff. If you already have Windows 2000, I wouldn't recommend the upgrade, but if you have NT4 or Win9x, go for it.

 

[Noriaki]

I was going to start a thread like this the other day, I was going to call it "Lets shoot down WinXP FUD" (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt).

Good work Electrode.

I think you can hide your system tray icons as well, so things like Norton Antivirus or what not that are always there but never used don't have to waste space on your task bar

Sets the timer...how long do you think it will be before lucidguy gets in here to crap all over this thread like he did NFS4s?

And don't expect him to read your points, he's just start crapping as soon as he sees XP in the title. He doesn't like to read, just flame.

Anyone want to start a pot?

Again, good work Electrode.

 

[Elledan]

You forgot to mention one disadvantage of WinXP, namely the system it needs to run 'well':

600+ MHz CPU, 256+ MB RAM, 1 GB HD space for the Windows folder.

I guess companies like Compaq, Dell etc. will have a busy time selling new PC's and those who work on Tech Support will have a hard time explaining 20+ people an hour why their new copy of WinXP runs awfully slow on their <500 MHz, 64 MB RAM PC

 

[Noriaki]

600Mhz???

What? WinXP was perfectly Smooth on my 550, and I know people that have it run it on much less.

RAM, 128MB is fine if you aren't gaming. 256MB+ is better for games...but that's true in win98 as well.

WinXP's system requirements are no steeper than Win2k's.

 

[HansXP]

Thank you for putting this out here...hopefully some people will READ it.

 

[Electrode]

I haven't really had a chance to test XP on a cheap box. I've been doing all my tests on a dual P3 733 MHz with 384 MB RAM.

I did have Windows 2000 working on a celeron 533 with 64MB once, and I don't think XP needs much more.

 

[HansXP]

Yeah, I've used Win2K on a P200 w/128 MB RAM. I think the minimum system requirements for XP - a P2 300 w/128 MB RAM - are pretty realistic.

 

[y2kc]

Good post, not that it will mean anything to the anti MS advocates/zealots that lurk here. I really don't care what OS other people use, I'm sure they have their reasons, but the anti MS fanaticism gets really old after a while. BTW I agree with everything you said about XP it may topple Win2000 as Microsofts best OS to date, time will tell.

 

[konichiwa]

<< Activation isn't all that bad. If you have a legit copy it's a non-issue, you just hit the &quot;activate&quot; button on your first login and it's done. If you have a pirated copy, some registry hacking will get you through it. >>

Not only has Microsoft employed big brother, they've convinced people he's a harmless person who only wants to &quot;enhance your computing environment&quot;

 

[MasterHoss]

Yeah, people on this issue seem to be dumbasses... ignorance is bliss...

Thanks to the people that are actually running the actual OS for dismissing a lot of the stupid ass rumors that are going around about WinXP.

 

[Noriaki]

<< Not only has Microsoft employed big brother, they've convinced people he's a harmless person who only wants to &quot;enhance your computing environment&quot; >>

There is no big brother stuff in Windows XP.

To activate you pass your WinXP PID (Product ID) and a hash of serial numbers off 5 pieces of hardware to Microsoft. They then return a key that will work with that PID/Hash combination. If the same PID shows up too many times with different Hashes they disable that PID.

MICROSOFT CAN NOT DETERMINE ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER'S CONFIGURATION FROM THIS HASH CODE, IT IS A ONE-WAY HASH.

You can also submit the same PID/Hash combo 4 billion times and they will ignore it. Activation is harmless unless you try to install the same WinXP PID on many computers.

This BS about activation/spyware has been covered a million times. It's harmless, there is just a lot of FUD going on about it.

 

[n0cmonkey]

<<

<< Not only has Microsoft employed big brother, they've convinced people he's a harmless person who only wants to &quot;enhance your computing environment&quot; >>

There is no big brother stuff in Windows XP.

To activate you pass your WinXP PID (Product ID) and a hash of serial numbers off 5 pieces of hardware to Microsoft. They then return a key that will work with that PID/Hash combination. If the same PID shows up too many times with different Hashes they disable that PID.

MICROSOFT CAN NOT DETERMINE ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER'S CONFIGURATION FROM THIS HASH CODE, IT IS A ONE-WAY HASH.

You can also submit the same PID/Hash combo 4 billion times and they will ignore it. Activation is harmless unless you try to install the same WinXP PID on many computers.

This BS about activation/spyware has been covered a million times. It's harmless, there is just a lot of FUD going on about it. >>



I mean these as genuine questions although it could be considered trolling by some: What if you upgrade hardware? Get a new computer and use another OS on the older system? What about systems that have no contact to the outside net? How would this information be sent out?

I need another computer or two, it has gotten tougher to hate windows since I stopped using it

 

[konichiwa]

<< This BS about activation/spyware has been covered a million times. It's harmless, there is just a lot of FUD going on about it. >>

First of all, it's ironic that you're saying Microsoft is the &quot;victim&quot; of FUD when they're essentially the INVENTOR of FUD. Anyway, I never said anything about Spyware. I didn't claim it is spyware. I'm just baffled that all of you seem to be perfectly content with the fact that Microsoft FORCES you to register a product that you have bought and own a license to! F*ck that!

<< Thanks to the people that are actually running the actual OS for dismissing a lot of the stupid ass rumors that are going around about WinXP. >>

I am running the OS, thank you very much. And thank you for assuming otherwise.

Oh, how could I forget the implementation of RAW SOCKETS!

 

[joinT]

the thing that worried me about XP was the &quot;e-mail for help&quot; type feature where &quot;grandma&quot; could email me &amp; I can then take over her computer &amp; fix it.

seems to me that with all the people in the world who have vast programming knowledge (ie. not me) that one of these people could figure out a virus that would send that email to them, imagine the next &quot;MafiaBoy&quot; or whatever - instead of just DoS attacks on web sites - they just take over your computer.

 

[Noriaki]

<< I'm just baffled that all of you seem to be perfectly content with the fact that Microsoft FORCES you to register a product that you have bought and own a license to! F*ck that! >>

You don't have to register.
Registration is exactly the same as it always was. Activation is totally separate.
As I said, to Activate you pass your WinXP PID and a one-way Hash Code to MS's clearing house and get an Auth. Key back. That's it, that's activation. You don't send any personal information.

You can choose to Register, or not. Just like you always did.



And what is the big issue with Raw Sockets...some dumb sh*t on the web writes an article whining and complaining about them, when he really only understands about half of what he is talking about, and now it's ammo against MS?

Unix has has Raw Sockets for years, and Raw Sockets are not the only way to spoof source IP addresses anyways, you can do it quite capably in Windows 4.x if you know how. Win2000 Pro also fully supports Raw Sockets.

 

[TravisBickle]

I'm interested in XP and office XP. but I'll never buy them. why would I buy it in order to hack it? might just as well get Warez in the first place.
MS, leave my computer alone, it's none of your damn business- because I tell you it isn't any of your damn business.

 

[Electrode]

Well, I guess there are a few other things I didn't get to in the fisrt post:

1. If you completely replace the computer you activate XP on, you may have some problems. MS will want proof that the computer it was activated on is no more, and that might be hard to provide. You will probably have to crack the activation. MS assumes that this is a non-issue for the average consumer because when they upgrade, they buy a whole new system from a big OEM, which has a new copy of XP pre-loaded.
2. If a computer has no Internet connection, you can call a toll-free number or send some snail mail to get activated. That's what the 30-day timebomb is for.
3. The &quot;Remote Desktop&quot; feature looks cool, but as joint pointed out, it won't take long for an e-mail virus to be made that allows someone to take over a bunch of computers for a DDoS attack or something. Or, perhaps a security hole will be found that allows someone to telnet in and take over that way.
4. I've been using Win2K for awhile, and no one has used me for a DDoS attack yet.

 

[HansXP]

<< If you completely replace the computer you activate XP on, you may have some problems. MS will want proof that the computer it was activated on is no more, and that might be hard to provide. You will probably have to crack the activation. MS assumes that this is a non-issue for the average consumer because when they upgrade, they buy a whole new system from a big OEM, which has a new copy of XP pre-loaded. >>



Actually, no. Office 2000 SR-1 has this same type of activation. If you call them up and give them a new code, even after you've already activated once, they don't seem to care. They just give you a new number and move on. So, honestly, I'm not too worried about XP's activation features.

 

[n0cmonkey]

<< Well, I guess there are a few other things I didn't get to in the fisrt post:

1. If you completely replace the computer you activate XP on, you may have some problems. MS will want proof that the computer it was activated on is no more, and that might be hard to provide. You will probably have to crack the activation. MS assumes that this is a non-issue for the average consumer because when they upgrade, they buy a whole new system from a big OEM, which has a new copy of XP pre-loaded.
2. If a computer has no Internet connection, you can call a toll-free number or send some snail mail to get activated. That's what the 30-day timebomb is for.
3. The &quot;Remote Desktop&quot; feature looks cool, but as joint pointed out, it won't take long for an e-mail virus to be made that allows someone to take over a bunch of computers for a DDoS attack or something. Or, perhaps a security hole will be found that allows someone to telnet in and take over that way.
4. I've been using Win2K for awhile, and no one has used me for a DDoS attack yet. >>



Thanks. That answered my questions except the activation thing still seems a little much...

 

[n0cmonkey]

<<

<< I'm just baffled that all of you seem to be perfectly content with the fact that Microsoft FORCES you to register a product that you have bought and own a license to! F*ck that! >>

You don't have to register.
Registration is exactly the same as it always was. Activation is totally separate.
As I said, to Activate you pass your WinXP PID and a one-way Hash Code to MS's clearing house and get an Auth. Key back. That's it, that's activation. You don't send any personal information.

You can choose to Register, or not. Just like you always did.



And what is the big issue with Raw Sockets...some dumb sh*t on the web writes an article whining and complaining about them, when he really only understands about half of what he is talking about, and now it's ammo against MS?

Unix has has Raw Sockets for years, and Raw Sockets are not the only way to spoof source IP addresses anyways, you can do it quite capably in Windows 4.x if you know how. Win2000 Pro also fully supports Raw Sockets. >>



grc.com 15 n07 3r337 y0! h3 c4115 u5 5|{rip7 |{iddi075! Actually Mr Gibson is quite intelligent. The problem seems to be with the fact windows is the most used OS on earth. Why is this a problem? Joe Moron in alabama gets his new XP box, throws it on his cable connection, and doesn't secure it properly. Now we have several thousand machines out there owned by people who have never heard of stateful inspection let alone know anything about it, on high speed/always on internet connections. Imagine several hundred linux boxes in one of these botnets. It would be much more effective than win 9x would be. Not that linux admins (or any admin for that matter) always knows how to keep his sh*t secure, but there are less insecure unix machines on the net than windows machines which makes windows machines the ones to search for.

 

[konichiwa]

<< And what is the big issue with Raw Sockets...some dumb sh*t on the web writes an article whining and complaining about them, when he really only understands about half of what he is talking about, and now it's ammo against MS?

Unix has has Raw Sockets for years, and Raw Sockets are not the only way to spoof source IP addresses anyways, you can do it quite capably in Windows 4.x if you know how. Win2000 Pro also fully supports Raw Sockets. >>

Raw Sockets is not the problem. The fact that they're implemented fully in a CONSUMER BASED OS BY DEFAULT is the problem! Sure, Windows2000 fully supports raw sockets, but everyone's Aunt and Grandma aren't using Windows2000, are they? Imagine if every home user was running Unix, what all the script kiddies would be doing with DDoS attacks!

 

[lucidguy]

You conveniently forget to address

1. Smart tags, which form unauthorized derivative works of websites you and your friends wrote and programmed. This will be ON by default, and most people will have no idea how to turn it OFF.

2. In-built remote administration and firewall. Do you really want to entrust the security of your machine to a company that can't keep its own network secure from Russian hackers?

3. Activation is just a &quot;first step&quot; so to speak. In the near future, one of those MANDATORY Windows Updates will &quot;upgrade&quot; WinXP to send your full hardware configuration to Microsoft network, so that Microsoft will know which &quot;digitally signed&quot; drivers to send you should driver updates become available for your hardware. How would Windows Update know how to update your drivers without having your full hardware configuration to begin with?

4. Already, undocumented API calls are breaking third party CD burning apps, third party firewall apps, third party media player apps. Roxio plain does not work on WinXP. Expect this situation to get worse, not better, as Microsoft tries to eliminate the competition through maintaining anticompetitive exclusive knowledge on the full specs of WinXP APIs.

5. Most people will NOT know how to turn the Teletubby GUI off, eventually leading them to pot or crack addiction.

Thanks.

 

[randomlinh]

Any links regarding the undoc api's? I mean, XP ain't even officially out, so how do you know Roxio (what a crappy name IMO, why did adaptec have to have create/sell off/whatever their media software division..) won't work (ie, for the final release)?

 

[lucidguy]

There were a series of Register news stories about this fiasco.

I will edit this post if I can find links to them.

EDIT: Here's a good article. If you can see through the author's Microsoft-bribed pro-Microsoft attitude, you will be able to register the facts: Namely, that VMware Inc.'s VMware Workstation, Roxio's Easy CD Creator 5.0 and earlier, Laplink.com's LapLink Professional, Sierra Print Artist 4.0 do not work under XP.

 

[Electrode]

Go away lucid. No one cares what you say. You're a troll.