Question The Windows 10 ESU -- Questions -- I couldn't find a discussion here, so -- this thread

[BonzaiDuck]

Maybe I didn't look hard enough. But this matter of a consumer/individual ESU license for about $30 is discussed at MS and 10 Forum or elsewhere.

There is a Microsoft End of Support web -page, where folks are directed to (eventually) find a link to purchase a one-year renewable ESU.

Here's my sad-sack situation. I have three Win 10 Pro systems running on Skylake and Kaby Lake processors. One of these systems is my "Media PC", storing ripped ISOs to run at will with Cyberlink PowerDVD v. 22 and a dandy little handheld remote controller. I mostly use one of the other two systems as my regular desktop PC.

Before January 2022, there were three people in this house, and until 2018, all of us had our own PC in a LAN with a server. My Moms' dementia eventually ended her PC activity in that year. Then there was only myself and my brother. Bro died day after New Years 2022. I eliminated the old server (with Win 2012 Essentials), and built the "Media System" with surplus hardware and a Win 10 Pro OEM install disc -- it is connected directly to my Sony Bravia and accessible for "file-sharing" as a file backup server by my remaining two systems. One of those has slipped into the background with less usage, so this machine (where I'm typing this thread) accesses the Media/File-server. I have a laptop (which I sort of hate -- an LG Gram) with Windows 11.

I can keep these Windows 10 systems alive for a while, and don't want to need reconfiguring my "LAN" before the October 2025 "deadline" and termination of support.

Given the way I use the Media box, I don't think it's at much risk for ending the updates. It still has Windows Defender and MalWareBytes. I don't use it to surf the web or catch e-mails.

I used to build myself every new system. But I'm 77 years old, and don't think I have the patience for this anymore, so I'm looking at new Windows 11 systems with gen 13 to gen 15 (Arrow Lake) processors. I am concerned about limitations on my use of extra hardware in these OEM boxes, but mostly this is about storage, and I should be able to find room for NVME drives salvaged from my older systems. I figure I can get one, fast well-built system for between $1,000 and $2,000.

But I want the option to continue using my existing hardware with the Windows 10 ESU.

So -- Please -- if you have information, comments, advice or any thoughts -- I encourage you to share them. this is only the first week of June. I'm not hamstrung or limited for cash in buying an OEM box, but the way these current systems are working, I'm not all goo-gah with enthusiasm to spend the money. I know it's "time". I never let the need to upgrade delay for so long before. Just consider what I've been through, with the eldercare, diaper changes, spoon-feeding, sponge baths, and ultimately the burials. That was the purpose of my life for as much as 7 years. But I need to maintain the BonzaiDuck Digital Fortress for my data, my photos, my document archives, my Quicken accounts and spreadsheets.

As long as I have at least one good desktop system and reliable backup, I'll know when to sell the farm and check myself into assisted living when I find my computer skills going dim . . . . I mean . . . Moms didn't stop driving her car until she was 80. I might just keep my brain cells and mobility longer than that.

 

[Shmee]

Here are my thoughts on the matter: I have no love of Windows 11, but I can understand that it does have certain performance benefits on newer hardware, as well as continuing OS support. Honestly, for home users, I am starting to think you could just continue to use Windows 10, without official support. Just be careful to keep your AV up to date, and make sure whatever browser you use still supports/receives updates with 10.

For those that are willing to try to use Windows 11, you can even run it on some older hardware with workarounds, plus you can use tools to help mitigate the ads/spyware services it includes. With Win 11 Pro, you can also just use a local account. This is probably what I will do eventually on my main rig, though I will probably wait for a while till I do my next major platform upgrade, maybe for AM5 and Zen 6.

Also, for older systems that are just for basic tasks, no gaming or special software required, you could just run some form of Linux on them. Perfect for older hardware for basic web browsing. More secure than any Windows system anyway. And even if gaming is desired, Linux has come a long way in this regard. Some games will work well, even better in some cases. Some will still require Windows though.

Finally, whatever you do, make sure you do multiple backups, some ideally on a non Windows system, as these are more susceptible to ransomware etc. Also some on offline storage. You can also do full system backups using macrium reflect or similar. I would recommend some form of *nix or NAS specific OS for file servers. TrueNAS could be a good option for a system.

Anyway, I hope you will continue to do well, and wish you the best luck in your golden years. Hope your mind stays sharp and you continue to do stay savvy with computers.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Here are my thoughts on the matter: I have no love of Windows 11, but I can understand that it does have certain performance benefits on newer hardware, as well as continuing OS support. Honestly, for home users, I am starting to think you could just continue to use Windows 10, without official support. Just be careful to keep your AV up to date, and make sure whatever browser you use still supports/receives updates with 10.

For those that are willing to try to use Windows 11, you can even run it on some older hardware with workarounds, plus you can use tools to help mitigate the ads/spyware services it includes. With Win 11 Pro, you can also just use a local account. This is probably what I will do eventually on my main rig, though I will probably wait for a while till I do my next major platform upgrade, maybe for AM5 and Zen 6.

Also, for older systems that are just for basic tasks, no gaming or special software required, you could just run some form of Linux on them. Perfect for older hardware for basic web browsing. More secure than any Windows system anyway. And even if gaming is desired, Linux has come a long way in this regard. Some games will work well, even better in some cases. Some will still require Windows though.

Finally, whatever you do, make sure you do multiple backups, some ideally on a non Windows system, as these are more susceptible to ransomware etc. Also some on offline storage. You can also do full system backups using macrium reflect or similar. I would recommend some form of *nix or NAS specific OS for file servers. TrueNAS could be a good option for a system.

Anyway, I hope you will continue to do well, and wish you the best luck in your golden years. Hope your mind stays sharp and you continue to do stay savvy with computers.

Shmee -- it was definitely worth it to read your thoughts here.

Underlying all of this -- as you also noted -- are the worries and anxieties of preserving data. With the Media+File-server, I merely synch all the other systems -- laptop as well -- with the MS SyncToy. At the same time, each system has a scheduled Macrium backup to hot-swappable 2.5" HDDs. How I orchestrate any "transition" needs to consider all of this. I'm not one to rush!

I think I'll wait for this Win 10 ESU -- willing to spend $30 per system where I think it's needed. I've got my eye on a Dell system with a high-end Arrow Lake processor, but I'm still skeptical about the OEMs. I'm also looking at ASUS Z890 motherboards.

As long as the Win 10 Pro systems continue to work properly with attention to security, I won't need to panic.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I'm also looking at ASUS Z890 motherboards.

These are usually overpriced. I went with https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z890-AORUS-ELITE-WIFI7-ICE

What I liked:

Did not need to update BIOS to the latest. There are multiple updates available but I didn't feel any need to do so. The stock BIOS is excellent for my needs and I got my 245KF CPU to beat the 14900K's y-cruncher score in the Techpowerup review. You can see that here: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/arrow-lake-builders-thread.2622775/post-41386731

TPU chart: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-ultra-5-245k/7.html

And a really nice thing was, I have DDR5-7200 48GB kit that effortlessly ran at DDR5-8200 on this motherboard. That's a huge boost. In fact, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it boot with 8200 because the previous kit was 8200 and this one just booted with the same settings automatically!

It has special audio capacitors (the red colored ones) which I assume are more durable? Anyway, I like the look of them.

What I don't like:

The BIOS is kinda wonky.

It does not seem to have boot failure detection (something I'm used to with an ASROCK mobo) so if I put in settings that the mobo does not like, I have to take out the battery to reset the CMOS. Minor annoyance and non-issue if you are not going to be tinkering.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

These are usually overpriced. I went with https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z890-AORUS-ELITE-WIFI7-ICE

What I liked:

Did not need to update BIOS to the latest. There are multiple updates available but I didn't feel any need to do so. The stock BIOS is excellent for my needs and I got my 245KF CPU to beat the 14900K's y-cruncher score in the Techpowerup review. You can see that here: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/arrow-lake-builders-thread.2622775/post-41386731

TPU chart: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-ultra-5-245k/7.html

And a really nice thing was, I have DDR5-7200 48GB kit that effortlessly ran at DDR5-8200 on this motherboard. That's a huge boost. In fact, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it boot with 8200 because the previous kit was 8200 and this one just booted with the same settings automatically!

It has special audio capacitors (the red colored ones) which I assume are more durable? Anyway, I like the look of them.

What I don't like:

The BIOS is kinda wonky.

It does not seem to have boot failure detection (something I'm used to with an ASROCK mobo) so if I put in settings that the mobo does not like, I have to take out the battery to reset the CMOS. Minor annoyance and non-issue if you are not going to be tinkering.

Thanks for the tip and info on your build.

One thing I like about ASUS was their BIOS designs. Of course, time passes and changes things, but I had some gigabyte boards back in the day of the Core-2-Duo, and wasn't elated with the BIOS features -- just the way I remember it.

With ASUS I was pleased with their return policy and RMA alacrity. Maybe this is more common among other board makers, I couldn't say. Years ago, with the Kentsfield quad-core processor, I had the Striker board go south on me -- maybe it was only the inability to upgrade the BIOS, which I might have simply replaced myself -- but there was quick turnaround as soon as I set up the RMA. Then, back in 2021, the USB controller got zapped by a static charge through my own carelessness with a Sabertooth Z170S, and they nevertheless honored the Sabertooth 5 year warranty, and also with quick turnaround.

If I build my own system again, I'll need to come up to speed about features that may require extra attention. There should be "how-to" threads at the ASUS web-sites. I built a "new" system in early 2022 with a Z170 workstation board, but I was familiar with the chipset and the system was basically a twin of what I'd built in 2017.

Just chewing the fat about more youthful experiences, but I remember spending all weekend and all night fixing an audio board installation on a system in 1995 when I was only 48 years old, and I don't have the stamina for those crisis-mode efforts 30 years later. I'll need to find a workspace where I can construct the system over days or even weeks, no real problem with that.

But if I can coast with these Windows 10 systems as long as I need to, I suppose all will be fine. Right now -- today -- June 11 -- I'm more enthusiastic about the prospect as we discuss it to design and build it myself, but I found a couple Dell systems with Arrow Lake that pique my interest. If I go that route, it will be the first time in 31 years since I bought an OEM system.

 

[igor_kavinski]

but I found a couple Dell systems with Arrow Lake that pique my interest.

Those will be fine I guess if all you do is basic home office stuff. I would do that too if it were cheaper and the system came with a decent AIO and PSU. But you will probably get a 65W TDP capable air cooler that gets pretty whiny under all core load and the PSU will just be barely enough for basic stuff (if you want to get into AI stuff later by buying a graphics card, that may become a problem for you).

 

[igor_kavinski]

Puget Workstation C121-L

Purchase a mid-tower workstation from Puget Systems system featuring Intel's Core Ultra Series 2 processors with a standard ATX size motherboard.

www.pugetsystems.com

Comes with a fairly high end ASUS mobo and you just need to pay and boot it right up with no headaches.

Assuming you want to make them rich

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Puget Workstation C121-L

Purchase a mid-tower workstation from Puget Systems system featuring Intel's Core Ultra Series 2 processors with a standard ATX size motherboard.

www.pugetsystems.com

View attachment 125321

Comes with a fairly high end ASUS mobo and you just need to pay and boot it right up with no headaches.

Assuming you want to make them rich

Answering both of your posts, in this illuminating exchange with you.

Oddly, I'd noticed that ProArt Creator board. I was also tempering my expectation to the series-2 Core Ultra 7 265 processor.

As to cooling, see my notice under Cases & Cooling for the Ocypus Iota A62 "digital" air cooler -- or just this link. Like my old Grand Machos, the bench comparison puts it a notch above the Noctua NH D15, and the performance deficit over the top-end AIO cooler in the comparison ranking was only 9C degrees. I'd probably settle for the onboard Intel graphics, and I wouldn't get a 1300W PSU: I was looking at a Seasonic 750W Focus SGX Full Modular SFX 80+ Gold. Maybe with these considerations, I should scale down from a $500 ASUS motherboard.

Somehow that Puget Systems price-tag doesn't seem reasonable, even with the dGPU and the extra RAM -- I would probably be fine with 64GB DDR5.

I don't want to make anybody rich if it leaves me poorer!

Your speculation about my air-cooler choice may fall short of the Ocypus Iota A62, but it looks promising or reasonable.

Another look at boards: After toying with the idea for Maximus or the Pro-Art board in previous year iterations, I seem to scale back to a midrange. It was Sabertooth then, and TUF Gaming now:

ASUS TUF Gaming Z890 Pro

We're not "doing" this today, tomorrow, next week or next month. This is the preliminary investigation I always made in a serious effort to "design" my new computer. One thing concerns me is a customer saying "Windows 11 wouldn't install". There were enough positive reviews to balance misgivings. "No CSM" may not be a shortcoming for me.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Your speculation about my air-cooler choice may fall short of the Ocypus Iota A62, but take a look on the C&C forum.

Air coolers are not for me anymore due to their huge size and installation/removal/RAM-related headaches (I don't want to take the cooler off just to troubleshoot or change RAM). I have a 240mm Deepcool AIO on the 245KF and I really like how it is able to keep the CPU cool without too much noise.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Air coolers are not for me anymore due to their huge size and installation/removal/RAM-related headaches (I don't want to take the cooler off just to troubleshoot or change RAM). I have a 240mm Deepcool AIO on the 245KF and I really like how it is able to keep the CPU cool without too much noise.

You're welcome to that view and strategy. I've never had trouble with the RAM headaches, and don't fret the size of the units as long as I can secure the computer-case side-panel. On the other hand, I may never get out of the mid-tower rut. But I'll look into this more in the time frame I mentioned.

 

[igor_kavinski]

ASUS TUF Gaming Z890 Pro

That's a very nice looking mobo and I can see why you would want it just for the eye pleasing aesthetics.

However (not that I'm trying to make your job more difficult), there's something called Project Zero: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-Z890-S-WIFI-pz



All the ugly cables connect to the back of the mobo and it makes for a more clean looking build. You do need a compatible case, though.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

That's a very nice looking mobo and I can see why you would want it just for the eye pleasing aesthetics.

However (not that I'm trying to make your job more difficult), there's something called Project Zero: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-Z890-S-WIFI-pz

View attachment 125351

All the ugly cables connect to the back of the mobo and it makes for a more clean looking build. You do need a compatible case, though.

. . . Or . . . at least . . . . very tall standoffs screwed into the mobo pan!

Anyway, it's not the appearance of the board, although the TUF board appears similar to my Sabertooth Z170S boards. Sabertooth -- if I recollect rightly -- introduced this "TUF" moniker. I think they were made to "mil" specs. But I expect this Z890 Gaming board to be "up to snuff".

It's really going to be a while, though! I'd even want to save some money first! [Well -- just returned from the drugstore with the correct test strips for my Accu-Chek Blood sugar monitor, and getting ready to stick myself. I should drift over to to the "Health and Fitness" forum . .. And it's almost dinner time -- Bean, cheese and Pico-de-Galo tostadas. Gonna get one of those Shasta Grapefruit [sucralose] sodas!]