The war on drugs has been a marvelous success

[Martin]

http://presscue.com/node/32978/

If that doesn't have 'success' written all over it, I don't know what does. It sucks that Harper and conservatives hate personal freedom so much, otherwise we would've had decriminalization here by now...

 

[Genx87]

Well I will be one of the first to say the War on Drugs is a farce and has done nothing but empower and employ law enforcement agencies while allowing criminals to build vast empires.

But I think that article is taking stats and blaming it solely on the War on Drugs which imo is misleading. The US and Netherlands have vastly different demographics. It is too hard to point to one stat and say this is the reason.

And I am assuming you are talking about Canada when you refer to conservatives and Harper? In the US, both parties are equal opportunists in the War on Drugs to curtail freedoms.

 

[K1052]

filling up our prisons...check
fueling violent crime....check
financing criminal organizations....check
lots of kids still doing drugs...check
gobbling up billions in government funds....check


With that record I don't know how anyone could be against it...

 

[TheSlamma]

This news is over 20 years old.

 

[bamacre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHB2I83_N_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGGDVm4mmTo

Yet another reason I support Ron Paul.

 

[alchemize]

Slowly but surely it's becoming obvious to (almost) everyone. Yet remember this country is run by a bunch of politicians who recognize nobody was ever thrown out of office for being "tough on crime". It's what uncles and grandmas vote for, democrat or republican. Look at the presidential candidates - there's 2 candidates willing to look at the issue from a different perspective, neither of them anywhere near mainstream.

 

[brxndxn]

I hate the drug war too..

I hate all wars against intangible subjects.. war on poverty.. war on drugs.. war on terrorism..

Let's make sure the US is in a constant state of war so the politicians can grab as much power as possible.

 

[umbrella39]

I think I must smoke up before I can truly understand this report. BRB

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well I will be one of the first to say the War on Drugs is a farce and has done nothing but empower and employ law enforcement agencies while allowing criminals to build vast empires.

But I think that article is taking stats and blaming it solely on the War on Drugs which imo is misleading. The US and Netherlands have vastly different demographics. It is too hard to point to one stat and say this is the reason.

And I am assuming you are talking about Canada when you refer to conservatives and Harper? In the US, both parties are equal opportunists in the War on Drugs to curtail freedoms.

No, both parties are not equal when it comes to the war on drugs. Here in California, small amounts of marijuana have been decriminalized, by a democratic legislature and governor.
The war on drugs, and the cocaine sentencing disparities have been largely pushed by Republicans.

 

[jman19]

The "war on drugs" - a blatant waste of money.

 

[blackangst1]

I honestly dont think calling it war on drugs makes it any different than what we would do otherwise. I guess its a catch all used by people *shrug* Unlike the WOT which activates the patriot act (lets not derail, just using an example) I dont think the war on drugs ampowers anyone beyond what they could normally do.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well I will be one of the first to say the War on Drugs is a farce and has done nothing but empower and employ law enforcement agencies while allowing criminals to build vast empires.

But I think that article is taking stats and blaming it solely on the War on Drugs which imo is misleading. The US and Netherlands have vastly different demographics. It is too hard to point to one stat and say this is the reason.

And I am assuming you are talking about Canada when you refer to conservatives and Harper? In the US, both parties are equal opportunists in the War on Drugs to curtail freedoms.

No, both parties are not equal when it comes to the war on drugs. Here in California, small amounts of marijuana have been decriminalized, by a democratic legislature and governor.
The war on drugs, and the cocaine sentencing disparities have been largely pushed by Republicans.

Wow you found the exception.

/grats

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
I hate the drug war too..

I hate all wars against intangible subjects.. war on poverty.. war on drugs.. war on terrorism..

Let's make sure the US is in a constant state of war so the politicians can grab as much power as possible.

The "War on drugs" is the model for the "War on terror".

 

[Ozoned]

It would seem to me that to measure the success of any action that you take, you would need to know the outcome of not taking any action. To say that the war on drugs was a success or failure is pure speculation, unless we set benchmarks going into the war.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well I will be one of the first to say the War on Drugs is a farce and has done nothing but empower and employ law enforcement agencies while allowing criminals to build vast empires.

But I think that article is taking stats and blaming it solely on the War on Drugs which imo is misleading. The US and Netherlands have vastly different demographics. It is too hard to point to one stat and say this is the reason.

And I am assuming you are talking about Canada when you refer to conservatives and Harper? In the US, both parties are equal opportunists in the War on Drugs to curtail freedoms.

No, both parties are not equal when it comes to the war on drugs. Here in California, small amounts of marijuana have been decriminalized, by a democratic legislature and governor.
The war on drugs, and the cocaine sentencing disparities have been largely pushed by Republicans.

Eh, wrong. The Dems at the federal level have had to change the DEA's actions against MMJ states by legislation and decided not to. Enough R's crossed over to pass the act...but plenty of D's decided to abstain or vote against it.

And of course the whole federal minimum mandatory sentencing crap was started by Tip O'Neill, (D) Mass., after the death of Len Bias.

So I'd agree with you at a state level, but not at all the federal level.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
It would seem to me that to measure the success of any action that you take, you would need to know the outcome of not taking any action. To say that the war on drugs was a success or failure is pure speculation, unless we set benchmarks going into the war.

We have spent hundreds of billions of dollars trying to keep drugs out of the hands of Americans. And yet, today, they still exist everywhere, in every city, in every small town, and even in our children's middle and high schools.

It is an utter and complete failure, and an enormous waste of money. It has created and financed criminals, here and abroad, and it has dramatically increased the crime rate, especially in the minority communities.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well I will be one of the first to say the War on Drugs is a farce and has done nothing but empower and employ law enforcement agencies while allowing criminals to build vast empires.

But I think that article is taking stats and blaming it solely on the War on Drugs which imo is misleading. The US and Netherlands have vastly different demographics. It is too hard to point to one stat and say this is the reason.

And I am assuming you are talking about Canada when you refer to conservatives and Harper? In the US, both parties are equal opportunists in the War on Drugs to curtail freedoms.

No, both parties are not equal when it comes to the war on drugs. Here in California, small amounts of marijuana have been decriminalized, by a democratic legislature and governor.
The war on drugs, and the cocaine sentencing disparities have been largely pushed by Republicans.

Ok so is that why the DEA is kicking down the doors of medicinal users and raiding the fully legal clinics that distribute it? CA has the right idea, but the Feds don't care.

Same deal in Denver, it's decriminalized but the DEA doesn't care.

There is no democratic candidate except Gravel who is for full legalization, Dodd is for decriminalizing but that's not the same thing.

It's a third rail and noone will touch it for fear of losing the Jesus crowd or people who think Reefer Madness is a documentary.

This is one area where RP gets it right, when they wanted to make alcohol illegal, they respected the Constitution enough to make an amendment. The WoD is entirely un-Constitutional.

People who know the real story behind the War on Drugs and especially on marijuana cannot support our policy. It's a total sham drummed up by a corrupt media mogul who hated mexicans. We can all thank Arizona for getting the ball rolling.

Now that Big Pharma basically runs the show, things will never change. You can't make profit off of a drug that people can grow in their backyard.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well I will be one of the first to say the War on Drugs is a farce and has done nothing but empower and employ law enforcement agencies while allowing criminals to build vast empires.

But I think that article is taking stats and blaming it solely on the War on Drugs which imo is misleading. The US and Netherlands have vastly different demographics. It is too hard to point to one stat and say this is the reason.

And I am assuming you are talking about Canada when you refer to conservatives and Harper? In the US, both parties are equal opportunists in the War on Drugs to curtail freedoms.

No, both parties are not equal when it comes to the war on drugs. Here in California, small amounts of marijuana have been decriminalized, by a democratic legislature and governor.
The war on drugs, and the cocaine sentencing disparities have been largely pushed by Republicans.

Ok so is that why the DEA is kicking down the doors of medicinal users and raiding the fully legal clinics that distribute it? CA has the right idea, but the Feds don't care.

Same deal in Denver, it's decriminalized but the DEA doesn't care.

There is no democratic candidate except Gravel who is for full legalization, Dodd is for decriminalizing but that's not the same thing.

It's a third rail and noone will touch it for fear of losing the Jesus crowd or people who think Reefer Madness is a documentary.

This is one area where RP gets it right, when they wanted to make alcohol illegal, they respected the Constitution enough to make an amendment. The WoD is entirely un-Constitutional.

People who know the real story behind the War on Drugs and especially on marijuana cannot support our policy. It's a total sham drummed up by a corrupt media mogul who hated mexicans. We can all thank Arizona for getting the ball rolling.

Now that Big Pharma basically runs the show, things will never change. You can't make profit off of a drug that people can grow in their backyard.

Actually I think Big Pharma can make $$$ off it. I mean, my dad would never smoke to help his back pain, nor would my grandpa ever smoke to help his glaucoma. But they would take a pill prescribed by a doctor. And hence there is demand...but until it comes off Schedule I, the clinical trials of anything will be limited.

edit: Here's one that is in clinical trials...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sativex

In February 2007, GW and Otsuka Pharmaceutical announced an exclusive agreement for Otsuka to develop and market Sativex in the United States. Otsuka is a major global pharmaceutical company, best known for its antipsychotic blockbuster medication, Abilify. Sativex has received permission from the US regulatory authority, the FDA, to enter directly into late stage Phase III trials in the US. The first large scale US trial in the US for cancer patients is expected to start in summer 2007. The 300-patient, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study will evaluate the effect of Sativex in relieving average daily pain, reducing the use of breakthrough opioid medications, improving the quality of sleep and relevant aspects of quality of life among other outcome measures.

I expect that it will show a resounding success in those trials. What will that mean for the future of MJ? Who knows...

 

[40Hands]

"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times." - Bill Hicks

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well I will be one of the first to say the War on Drugs is a farce and has done nothing but empower and employ law enforcement agencies while allowing criminals to build vast empires.

But I think that article is taking stats and blaming it solely on the War on Drugs which imo is misleading. The US and Netherlands have vastly different demographics. It is too hard to point to one stat and say this is the reason.

And I am assuming you are talking about Canada when you refer to conservatives and Harper? In the US, both parties are equal opportunists in the War on Drugs to curtail freedoms.

No, both parties are not equal when it comes to the war on drugs. Here in California, small amounts of marijuana have been decriminalized, by a democratic legislature and governor.
The war on drugs, and the cocaine sentencing disparities have been largely pushed by Republicans.

Which is why you're leading the crusade for expanding the drug war to include tobacco prohibition, right? :roll:

Oh, and medical marijuana and decriminalization in California were mostly the results of grassroots actions, particularly those led by libertarian activist Peter McWilliams.

I would appreciate it if you don't pretend to take credit for them.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well I will be one of the first to say the War on Drugs is a farce and has done nothing but empower and employ law enforcement agencies while allowing criminals to build vast empires.

But I think that article is taking stats and blaming it solely on the War on Drugs which imo is misleading. The US and Netherlands have vastly different demographics. It is too hard to point to one stat and say this is the reason.

And I am assuming you are talking about Canada when you refer to conservatives and Harper? In the US, both parties are equal opportunists in the War on Drugs to curtail freedoms.

No, both parties are not equal when it comes to the war on drugs. Here in California, small amounts of marijuana have been decriminalized, by a democratic legislature and governor.
The war on drugs, and the cocaine sentencing disparities have been largely pushed by Republicans.

Hahaha, you're kidding right? Clinton could have told the various agencies that the executive branch is directly in control of to stop enforcing federal drug laws. He didn't. Democrats love the war on drugs, it's just another social program to them.

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: brxndxn
I hate the drug war too..

I hate all wars against intangible subjects.. war on poverty.. war on drugs.. war on terrorism..

Let's make sure the US is in a constant state of war so the politicians can grab as much power as possible.

The "War on drugs" is the model for the "War on terror".

QFT!

Both are neverending wars that increase the powers of the federal government.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: brxndxn
I hate the drug war too..

I hate all wars against intangible subjects.. war on poverty.. war on drugs.. war on terrorism..

Let's make sure the US is in a constant state of war so the politicians can grab as much power as possible.

The "War on drugs" is the model for the "War on terror".

QFT!

Both are neverending wars that increase the powers of the federal government.

It is a mind set the politicians use to get people behind something. Imagine if the War on Drugs or Terror had a more benign name. Like lets say prohibition of drugs and terror. Nobody would get behind that. But they label it as a "War" and suddenly the consequences are serious if we fail. And we cant lose a war, that isnt what America is about!

War on Poverty
War on Drugs
War on Terror

All pretty much dismal failures.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well I will be one of the first to say the War on Drugs is a farce and has done nothing but empower and employ law enforcement agencies while allowing criminals to build vast empires.

But I think that article is taking stats and blaming it solely on the War on Drugs which imo is misleading. The US and Netherlands have vastly different demographics. It is too hard to point to one stat and say this is the reason.

And I am assuming you are talking about Canada when you refer to conservatives and Harper? In the US, both parties are equal opportunists in the War on Drugs to curtail freedoms.

No, both parties are not equal when it comes to the war on drugs. Here in California, small amounts of marijuana have been decriminalized, by a democratic legislature and governor.
The war on drugs, and the cocaine sentencing disparities have been largely pushed by Republicans.

Ok so is that why the DEA is kicking down the doors of medicinal users and raiding the fully legal clinics that distribute it? CA has the right idea, but the Feds don't care.

Same deal in Denver, it's decriminalized but the DEA doesn't care.

There is no democratic candidate except Gravel who is for full legalization, Dodd is for decriminalizing but that's not the same thing.

It's a third rail and noone will touch it for fear of losing the Jesus crowd or people who think Reefer Madness is a documentary.

This is one area where RP gets it right, when they wanted to make alcohol illegal, they respected the Constitution enough to make an amendment. The WoD is entirely un-Constitutional.

People who know the real story behind the War on Drugs and especially on marijuana cannot support our policy. It's a total sham drummed up by a corrupt media mogul who hated mexicans. We can all thank Arizona for getting the ball rolling.

Now that Big Pharma basically runs the show, things will never change. You can't make profit off of a drug that people can grow in their backyard.

Actually I think Big Pharma can make $$$ off it. I mean, my dad would never smoke to help his back pain, nor would my grandpa ever smoke to help his glaucoma. But they would take a pill prescribed by a doctor. And hence there is demand...but until it comes off Schedule I, the clinical trials of anything will be limited.

edit: Here's one that is in clinical trials...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sativex

In February 2007, GW and Otsuka Pharmaceutical announced an exclusive agreement for Otsuka to develop and market Sativex in the United States. Otsuka is a major global pharmaceutical company, best known for its antipsychotic blockbuster medication, Abilify. Sativex has received permission from the US regulatory authority, the FDA, to enter directly into late stage Phase III trials in the US. The first large scale US trial in the US for cancer patients is expected to start in summer 2007. The 300-patient, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study will evaluate the effect of Sativex in relieving average daily pain, reducing the use of breakthrough opioid medications, improving the quality of sleep and relevant aspects of quality of life among other outcome measures.

I expect that it will show a resounding success in those trials. What will that mean for the future of MJ? Who knows...

Sure, but I would classify your father and grandfather as a minority of potential MJ users or people who need pain relief. They could certainly make a profit off of exotic extracts and such for people who don't enjoy smoking or don't want to deal with the carcinogens.

But the vast majority of recreational users would probably still smoke it and were it legal they could grow their own supply very easily.

Most of us don't have the expertise or equipment to manufacture oxycontin but most of us can grow tomatoes and thus could produce our own weed.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Ok so is that why the DEA is kicking down the doors of medicinal users and raiding the fully legal clinics that distribute it? CA has the right idea, but the Feds don't care.

Same deal in Denver, it's decriminalized but the DEA doesn't care.

There is no democratic candidate except Gravel who is for full legalization, Dodd is for decriminalizing but that's not the same thing.

It's a third rail and noone will touch it for fear of losing the Jesus crowd or people who think Reefer Madness is a documentary.

This is one area where RP gets it right, when they wanted to make alcohol illegal, they respected the Constitution enough to make an amendment. The WoD is entirely un-Constitutional.

People who know the real story behind the War on Drugs and especially on marijuana cannot support our policy. It's a total sham drummed up by a corrupt media mogul who hated mexicans. We can all thank Arizona for getting the ball rolling.

Now that Big Pharma basically runs the show, things will never change. You can't make profit off of a drug that people can grow in their backyard.

Of course you can. It's quicker and easier to brew beer than it is to grow marijuana, yet how many beer brinkers do you know that brew their own? Not many I'll wager.

The big issues are still Reefer Madness, refusing to admit they were wrong, and the machinery and money behind the Drug War system. For Big Pharma and the medical community, it's about self-medicating, something they cannot tolerate.
But more than anything else, the primary motive of the drug warriors is to keep prohibition alive, with hopes to reinstate alcohol prohibition at some date in the future.

Originally posted by: 40Hands
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times." - Bill Hicks

Exactly.