The Walking Dead - season 6 discussion thread

[Imp]

It's really unusual for Rick to be so short-sighted. He knows there are multiple gangs & doesn't know how many resources they have, people & otherwise, and why they all act the way they do...despite Rick being covered in blood half the time, even the Alexandria townspeople don't all agree or stand with Rick, so they have some crazy gang loyalty going on with Negan's people.

The shit they pulled this episode pretty much hammered it home that they aren't better than anyone or the good guys.

 

[Kaido]

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/01/15/walking-dead-robert-kirkman-negan

“As far as shake-ups go, we have lots of shake-ups from season to season,” says Kirkman. “It keeps things interesting — keeps the blood pumping, I like to say — but Negan is kind of an atomic bomb that’s going to be dropped on the show and the show will probably never be the same after that. So buckle up..."

This is a good point too:

“I think the Saviors are dangerously organized,” says Kirkman. “The Wolves were psychotic, the Hunters [the group from Terminus] had a lot of weaknesses. When it comes to the Saviors, and Negan in particular, the way I’ve always thought about this in the comics is this is a group that’s led by a guy who’s had his morality dial a few clicks away from Rick toward the darker aspects of his personality, but is still an intellectual and capable leader who’s kept his group alive against all odds just as long as Rick has. It’s really the best encountering the best. When these two forces come head to head, things are gonna get interesting. This is a much different group than they’ve ever encountered. The Saviors are a group they’re not really prepared for.”

So what we know about Negan's group so far:

1. He's like Rick - a smart leader, but rules with an iron fist
2. Everyone in the group "is" Negan
3. Multiple groups, as large as 20 people
4. Everything belongs to the group/to Negan
5. They tax multiple settlements

So whereas the Governor was similar to Rick but nicer to his people, like Kirkman said, this is going to be the best vs. the best...with Negan's people being prepared to do anything. I wonder how this will play out long-term...will Season 7 be a long-term battle against Negan's people?

 

[Kaido]

Rick didn't hear the redhead say they're all Negan. As far as Rick is concerned, Negan is the endgame and since the guy said he is Negan that's all he had to hear. He thinks he just essentially ended the whole conflict.

That's what I mean, he made a bad decision...he knows from Jesus' camp that there are multiple groups roaming the countryside. Just kind of out of character for him.

 

[dank69]

That's what I mean, he made a bad decision...he knows from Jesus' camp that there are multiple groups roaming the countryside. Just kind of out of character for him.

He thinks he just cut the head off the snake as they say.

 

[Phoenix86]

He thinks he just cut the head off the snake as they say.

Carol is going to tell him about the "we are Negan" comment, so he shouldn't think that for long.

 

[Kaido]

they aren't better than anyone or the good guys.

They're walking a fine line here, because:

1. Rick's group is still trying to be good people.

2. Negan's biker gang tried to take out Abraham, Sasha, and Daryl. They killed them out of self-defense.

3. In order to survive and get food & supplies, they need to trade with Jesus' group. Negan's group is so brutal that they kidnapped one of Gregory's group & came back with a message that meant stabbing Gregory & trying to take his head back to Negan's group. That's not something Rick would do...he wouldn't demand someone's head on a platter.

4. Negan's group is holding Gregory's group under a 50% tax hold, for no other reason than they're bullies & they can.

5. Eventually, Negan's group will come for Rick's already-hurting group & demand the same, and probably issue a sacrifice at the get-go as well.

Like they said on the Talking Dead, they're intentionally blurring the lines. They're doing things that they would have condemned other groups for. But what choice do they have? Eventually the Saviors will come for them & do the same as they did to Gregory's group, so they are just taking advantage of the only window of surprise they have.

They are careful to justify it along the way...having Negan's people look over "Gregory's" head, seeing the serial killer's pictures on the wall, etc., shows that they're not good people, despite what the redheaded lady told Carol.

 

[Phoenix86]

They're walking a fine line here, because...

Yeah, but murder. Rick's 3 questions.

 

[Charmonium]

Does anyone think it's a little unrealistic to believe that you would have a widely dispersed group like Negans that would remain cohesive? The few times we've seen this in the past, the strong groups were always centralized. That's the only way you can really maintain control. To have multiple groups requires local leadership in each group that reflects the ideas and beliefs of the central leader, Negan. I really don't think anyone could pull that off especially if the timeline is 2-3 years after the apocalypse.

 

[Skel]

He thinks he just cut the head off the snake as they say.

Carol is going to tell him about the "we are Negan" comment, so he shouldn't think that for long.

That's one down side to all the casting news, or even behind the scene shows like Talking dead. We already know that Negan is a person and not a group thing. If they didn't announce everything we may have been left wondering if Negan wasn't a person.

 

[Phoenix86]

That's one down side to all the casting news, or even behind the scene shows like Talking dead. We already know that Negan is a person and not a group thing. If they didn't announce everything we may have been left wondering if Negan wasn't a person.

Well I had it spoiled in this thread not those places, so there's that. Regardless my point was the "we are Negan" thing still doesn't imply they are done with it. I would still have assumed there were more groups, just not that he's an actual person.

 

[Kaido]

Yeah, but murder. Rick's 3 questions.

Ooh dang, good point!

 

[Kaido]

Does anyone think it's a little unrealistic to believe that you would have a widely dispersed group like Negans that would remain cohesive? The few times we've seen this in the past, the strong groups were always centralized. That's the only way you can really maintain control. To have multiple groups requires local leadership in each group that reflects the ideas and beliefs of the central leader, Negan. I really don't think anyone could pull that off especially if the timeline is 2-3 years after the apocalypse.

They key is tho that they have strong communication. And not just via walkie-talkies, but sophisticated channel & code systems, as illustrated on the drive to the slaughterhouse with Maggie & Carol under the hoods. That has to be one of the secrets to their success...they can still talk over long distances, even without cell phones. I think Rick's group has a few radios, but they definitely aren't as well-equipped as Negan's group. So they operate as individual cells of a whole gang unit.

Plus they are apparently fear-driven...you can never leave the group, and everything you own belongs to the group/to Negan himself. So maybe Negan is like Rick, still looking out for his people, but rather than giving them a choice, he rules through fear (with a certain weapon...).

 

[dank69]

Yeah, but murder. Rick's 3 questions.

The questions are "how many people have you killed?" and "why?" so I'm sure Rick considers the choice to murder these people a reasonable decision. "Why?" "To protect our people."

 

[Kaido]

The questions are "how many people have you killed?" and "why?" so I'm sure Rick considers the choice to murder these people a reasonable decision. "Why?" "To protect our people."

Also, Negan's group instigated this whole thing - they attacked Abraham's group first. Fortunately Daryl took them out, but then Rick's group made an alliance with Gregory's group, and part of the trade deal was taking out Negan so that they could support themselves better. We know that Negan's group is pretty evil because they force settlements to pay them without reciprocation & also take hostages, kill opposing group members (like the kid in Gregory's camp), send messages of death (re: Gregory getting stabbed), employ serial killers (the polaroids on the wall where Glen took out the two sleeping people), etc. So they're nasty people who do nasty thing, and to Rick's point, it's only a matter of time before they come for Alexandria.

What Rick screwed up was thinking that taking out one camp would do the trick. He knows, from the intel from Gregory's camp, that there are multiple groups with as high as 20 people in them. He didn't bother to scout things out properly or do interrogation, so now he has zero extra intel & has simply stirred up the hornet's nest. I think he's crossed the line of being just a bit too cocky...yes, they needed the element of surprise, but they should have cleaned up the crime scenes (instead of leaving a trail back to them) & they really should have interrogated the last guy they had alive there. But that's how you move a plot along! :awe:

 

[Strk]

Also, Negan's group instigated this whole thing - they attacked Abraham's group first. Fortunately Daryl took them out, but then Rick's group made an alliance with Gregory's group, and part of the trade deal was taking out Negan so that they could support themselves better. We know that Negan's group is pretty evil because they force settlements to pay them without reciprocation & also take hostages, kill opposing group members (like the kid in Gregory's camp), send messages of death (re: Gregory getting stabbed), employ serial killers (the polaroids on the wall where Glen took out the two sleeping people), etc. So they're nasty people who do nasty thing, and to Rick's point, it's only a matter of time before they come for Alexandria.

What Rick screwed up was thinking that taking out one camp would do the trick. He knows, from the intel from Gregory's camp, that there are multiple groups with as high as 20 people in them. He didn't bother to scout things out properly or do interrogation, so now he has zero extra intel & has simply stirred up the hornet's nest. I think he's crossed the line of being just a bit too cocky...yes, they needed the element of surprise, but they should have cleaned up the crime scenes (instead of leaving a trail back to them) & they really should have interrogated the last guy they had alive there. But that's how you move a plot along! :awe:

I'm thinking Rick originally thought there was only a single group of up to 20 or so people. And not that there were several groups of up to 20 or so people. At least that is my take on it.

 

[Kaido]

I'm thinking Rick originally thought there was only a single group of up to 20 or so people. And not that there were several groups of up to 20 or so people. At least that is my take on it.

Nah, I think Jesus or the other guy who's brother was taken explained that there were multiple groups & they had seen different people every time. But maybe he thought that taking out the biker gang & then the armory meant they got them all. Either way, we know it's gonna end badly for them!

 

[dank69]

I'm thinking Rick originally thought there was only a single group of up to 20 or so people. And not that there were several groups of up to 20 or so people. At least that is my take on it.

That's my take as well. I think Rick is definitely assuming he has neutralized most, if not all, of Negan's group, as well as Negan himself.

I think the original discussion was "multiple groups and the largest group ever seen was 20" or something along those lines. That could be taken as multiple small groups that often organize into one group of at least 20, or multiple large groups, at least one of which is at least 20. I heard it as the former and assumed Rick did as well. I'd have to re-watch that part again to be sure, though.

 

[Strk]

Nah, I think Jesus or the other guy who's brother was taken explained that there were multiple groups & they had seen different people every time. But maybe he thought that taking out the biker gang & then the armory meant they got them all. Either way, we know it's gonna end badly for them!

Oh yeah, Rick's group is seriously screwed.

 

[Drako]

Redhead, Alicia Witt, on Talking Dead... what the hell, she's kind of hot in real-life.

She played Alia Atreides when she was a kid - creepy.

 

[Kaido]

She played Alia Atreides when she was a kid - creepy.

Ahhhh! That gives a whole new meaning to Saint Alia of the Knife :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

Oh yeah, Rick's group is seriously screwed.

Hmm, I wonder how they're going to play this out long-term. Negan is obviously going to be very mad about the loss of two of his groups (biker gang & armory) and will take it out on Rick's group by killing at least one of their members (key member, from the sound of it), but then how does that play out long-term?

I think Rick's going to go bananas & will go into full stamp-out-the-enemy mode, which means that he'll have to enlist the help of the other settlements for manpower, because it sounds like Negan's group is huge. I'm curious if they're going to play this out over Season 7 like the Governor, or if it will be a quick die-off like Terminus. Since hanging around Alexandria is getting kind of stale, it would be cool if Rick & co took out Negan's group & engendered goodwill with multiple settlements so they could really get their supply base growing.

Those social connections would really help them grow their world & offer more opportunities for story development, because if they get booted out of Alexandria again, then it's just like re: the farm, re: the prison, re: everywhere they've ever stayed since the beginning. They can't be on the road again with the baby plus (maybe) Maggie's baby, so hopefully Negan will be a fun long-term threat to Rick's group. So far, I've really liked this second half of the season...very intense, lots of good action, lots of new story stuff (Gregory's camp, the Saviors, etc.).

 

[Strk]

Hmm, I wonder how they're going to play this out long-term. Negan is obviously going to be very mad about the loss of two of his groups (biker gang & armory) and will take it out on Rick's group by killing at least one of their members (key member, from the sound of it), but then how does that play out long-term?

I think Rick's going to go bananas & will go into full stamp-out-the-enemy mode, which means that he'll have to enlist the help of the other settlements for manpower, because it sounds like Negan's group is huge. I'm curious if they're going to play this out over Season 7 like the Governor, or if it will be a quick die-off like Terminus. Since hanging around Alexandria is getting kind of stale, it would be cool if Rick & co took out Negan's group & engendered goodwill with multiple settlements so they could really get their supply base growing.

Those social connections would really help them grow their world & offer more opportunities for story development, because if they get booted out of Alexandria again, then it's just like re: the farm, re: the prison, re: everywhere they've ever stayed since the beginning. They can't be on the road again with the baby plus (maybe) Maggie's baby, so hopefully Negan will be a fun long-term threat to Rick's group. So far, I've really liked this second half of the season...very intense, lots of good action, lots of new story stuff (Gregory's camp, the Saviors, etc.).

I'm just thinking massive cliffhanger until season 7

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Hmm, I wonder how they're going to play this out long-term. Negan is obviously going to be very mad about the loss of two of his groups (biker gang & armory) and will take it out on Rick's group by killing at least one of their members (key member, from the sound of it), but then how does that play out long-term?

I think Rick's going to go bananas & will go into full stamp-out-the-enemy mode, which means that he'll have to enlist the help of the other settlements for manpower, because it sounds like Negan's group is huge. I'm curious if they're going to play this out over Season 7 like the Governor, or if it will be a quick die-off like Terminus. Since hanging around Alexandria is getting kind of stale, it would be cool if Rick & co took out Negan's group & engendered goodwill with multiple settlements so they could really get their supply base growing.

Those social connections would really help them grow their world & offer more opportunities for story development, because if they get booted out of Alexandria again, then it's just like re: the farm, re: the prison, re: everywhere they've ever stayed since the beginning. They can't be on the road again with the baby plus (maybe) Maggie's baby, so hopefully Negan will be a fun long-term threat to Rick's group. So far, I've really liked this second half of the season...very intense, lots of good action, lots of new story stuff (Gregory's camp, the Saviors, etc.).

I agree: the only place for this to go is from survival horror to RTS.

 

[Kaido]

I'm just thinking massive cliffhanger until season 7

From the sound of it, they're definitely going to kill off one main character at the end of this season, but yeah, it will probably end there, or with Rick's blood boiling & ready to go to war post-loss.

 

[JM Aggie08]

Man, that was a dark episode.

This has been a pretty solid continuation of the season so far. I'm pretty pleased.