The Valley Hope Forgot - San Joaquin Valley

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: bfdd

Originally posted by: sandorski
This is a tough call. On the one hand you're diverting Water for Agriculture that wouldn't be possible without. On the other hand you're messing with the Natural Food Chain by diverting that Water. Personally I side with the Smelt, for the simple reason that it is important, but also because the Valley isn't suited for Agriculture if it's Water demands put at risk Natural Processes.

IMO, this is the kind of situation where Desalination makes a lot of sense. Let the Rivers flow, perhaps take a small portion of that Water for other uses, but for heavy uses, especially for turning Deserts green, Desalinate and Irrigate.

Fuck that stupid little fish. Humans are top priority all other animals come second. If this is putting hardship on humans, fuck it let it die out it obviously isn't strong enough to survive.

Humans can't live on a dead planet. Fuck the fish, fuck yourself.

Nope sorry, the planet won't die just because some smelt do.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: bfdd

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: bfdd

Originally posted by: sandorski
This is a tough call. On the one hand you're diverting Water for Agriculture that wouldn't be possible without. On the other hand you're messing with the Natural Food Chain by diverting that Water. Personally I side with the Smelt, for the simple reason that it is important, but also because the Valley isn't suited for Agriculture if it's Water demands put at risk Natural Processes.

IMO, this is the kind of situation where Desalination makes a lot of sense. Let the Rivers flow, perhaps take a small portion of that Water for other uses, but for heavy uses, especially for turning Deserts green, Desalinate and Irrigate.

Fuck that stupid little fish. Humans are top priority all other animals come second. If this is putting hardship on humans, fuck it let it die out it obviously isn't strong enough to survive.

Humans can't live on a dead planet. Fuck the fish, fuck yourself.

Nope sorry, the planet won't die just because some smelt do.

Look around, these smelt are just one of many at risk.

 

[rbV5]

Isn't the San Joaquin Valley already having HUGE issues with salt buildup and elevated Selenium concentration in the soils and now groundwater from lontime irrigation? Does Hannity even mention the environmental issues they are having in the valley directly related to diverting waters to that area? Is irrigated agriculture even sustainable in the Valley?

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Maybe they could grow something less demanding, like Mary Jane?

Yeah! That will feed so many people...

You can sell it for this thing called money, which can then be exchanged for goods and services.

Also it has the pleasant benefit of being smoke-able.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Vic
Actually, it can. Hempseed oil is highly nutritious.

As for the OP, Hannity is spreading FUD again, as usual. The wingnut pretense for believing in free markets always falls apart when it comes to natural resources, when then they don't bother hiding that they expect govt to give them everything and for free.

Government turned off the water.

That pesky little fact just sort of blows away your whole concept.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Vic
Actually, it can. Hempseed oil is highly nutritious.

As for the OP, Hannity is spreading FUD again, as usual. The wingnut pretense for believing in free markets always falls apart when it comes to natural resources, when then they don't bother hiding that they expect govt to give them everything and for free.

Government turned off the water.

That pesky little fact just sort of blows away your whole concept.

Except that it was govt that 'turned on' the water in the first place. It wasn't private industry that built all those dams, levies, and irrigation canals...

 

[piasabird]

They know how to manage water in Idaho which is a dry farming state. California could learn something from the Mormons. People need food they cant eat whatever is being protected. Cant fix stupid.

 

[AreaCode707]

Those damn farmers sucking up the water to feed the country, messing with the natural ecosystem! They should move to the water-filled oasis of a city that is LA; now THAT is natural and sustainable!

Seriously, the only reason they're shutting of the San Joaquin water is because they can. Yes, the salmon need it, I absolutely do agree. However, to shut down one of the most fertile food-producing areas in our country while we continue to water the damn desert in LA is beyond me. Only we'd never do anything as absurd as shut down water to LA because it's such a huge population center. Too bad they won't get into hard-core rationing to discourage people from living down there. The salmon could use that water, we could cut the population size of LA and try to get it back to something sustainable for that area.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Fitting that on the precipice of the greatest depression

LOL

Where do you find this stuff buddy?

 

[KMFJD]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I live right in the middle of all this.

Personally, I think the smelt and salmon have a greater claim on the water than the farmers do. They were here first...and they NEED the water to survive.

I spent 7 years working for one of the local irrigation districts/electric companies here.

The amount of wasted water is shocking. (this is not water currently being fought over, but from a different source)

If you think the use of water to grow food crops in arid country is a waste of water, how about the billions of gallons we send to Southern Kahleeforneeya so LA can have green lawns and golf courses?

I don't know anyone on the NorCal side of the water fight who'd try to deny SoCal people drinking water, but again, the waste that occurs once it gets over the mountains is immense.

Yet another "problem" that keeps cropping up here is that of deep wells for irrigation. Currently, there is no regulation, no restriction of how deep a well can be drilled, how much water can be taken out, or what/where it's used for.

This has caused large portions of the aquifers to collaps...and/or fill with salt water as it gets sucked up the delta from the bay.

Nothing prevents me from drilling a very deep well and pumping and pumping and pumping...and drawing so much water out of the aquifer that YOUR well goes dry. Plus, since it's not regulated, that water isn't counted in the water allotments in the area.

B B B but i like my lawn green while living in a desert!

 

[Sinsear]

They should redirect the water from San Francisco to the San Joaquin Valley. Lord knows nothing useful comes out of that city.

 

[boomerang]

Why does the movie Chinatown come to mind when I read this thread? One of the themes in the movie was to cut off the water supply to farmers, drive them out of business and pick up the land on the cheap.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
They should redirect the water from San Francisco to the San Joaquin Valley. Lord knows nothing useful comes out of that city.

No!!!

Mendocino County is in the middle of a major drought. Sonoma County owns most of the water in Lake Mendocino because they helped pay to build the dam that created the lake. The legal agreement is that Sonoma may take x% of the water for their own use but may not resell it.

Guess what Sonoma is doing? Selling the water to Marin County. So the yuppies have green lawns while the Mendocino farmers can't take water out of the river, runoff from the hills, and are being told that their takes from their OWN wells may be restricted soon.

Nobody would ever dare cut water to the urban centers so when there are ecology-related water problems it's always the rural areas that get the shaft.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: Sinsear
They should redirect the water from San Francisco to the San Joaquin Valley. Lord knows nothing useful comes out of that city.

No!!!

Mendocino County is in the middle of a major drought. Sonoma County owns most of the water in Lake Mendocino because they helped pay to build the dam that created the lake. The legal agreement is that Sonoma may take x% of the water for their own use but may not resell it.

Guess what Sonoma is doing? Selling the water to Marin County. So the yuppies have green lawns while the Mendocino farmers can't take water out of the river, runoff from the hills, and are being told that their takes from their OWN wells may be restricted soon.

Nobody would ever dare cut water to the urban centers so when there are ecology-related water problems it's always the rural areas that get the shaft.

Marin Municipal Water District gets 80% of its water from rainfall, stored in reservoirs.
They buy 20% of the water from Sonoma. Also, 80% of the water pumped from the delta is used by farmers- and is heavily subsidized by taxpayers.

Of course, Mendocino and Sonoma have golf courses and are watering all kinds of landscaping. Rural areas getting the shaft not found.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: Sinsear
They should redirect the water from San Francisco to the San Joaquin Valley. Lord knows nothing useful comes out of that city.

No!!!

Mendocino County is in the middle of a major drought. Sonoma County owns most of the water in Lake Mendocino because they helped pay to build the dam that created the lake. The legal agreement is that Sonoma may take x% of the water for their own use but may not resell it.

Guess what Sonoma is doing? Selling the water to Marin County. So the yuppies have green lawns while the Mendocino farmers can't take water out of the river, runoff from the hills, and are being told that their takes from their OWN wells may be restricted soon.

Nobody would ever dare cut water to the urban centers so when there are ecology-related water problems it's always the rural areas that get the shaft.

Marin Municipal Water District gets 80% of its water from rainfall, stored in reservoirs.
They buy 20% of the water from Sonoma. Also, 80% of the water pumped from the delta is used by farmers- and is heavily subsidized by taxpayers.

Of course, Mendocino and Sonoma have golf courses and are watering all kinds of landscaping. Rural areas getting the shaft not found.

You've clearly never seen the Mendocino County Municipal golf course in Ukiah. Only one inland that I'm aware of, and probably closing soon due to disuse and unprofitability. Nor will you find much in the way of landscaping around most homes. There's one "upscale" neighborhood called Deerwood that has "landscaped" yards.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=...2&ie=UTF8&z=16&iwloc=A

Wander around and show me where you see water waste, compared to:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=...cbp=12,184.82,,0,10.52

City declares a water-related state of emergency. Are you legally allowed to turn on your hose right now and wash your car? Will the water run into the gutters? Ukiah cannot:
http://74.125.113.132/search?q...gl=us&client=firefox-a

If that's the city state of emergency you can imagine what the farmers in the area are enduring. You are not legally allowed to build a pond in Mendocino County if there is a dip in the hill that might catch runoff water. My friends who own and farm 100 acres are being told they might need to get RID of their irrigation pond that already exists.

Plus you ignore the fact that the 20% of your water you are buying from Sonoma is legally not allowed to be sold to you! The legal arrangement with Sonoma is that they may use the water but may not sell it.

Water district conservation ordinances: http://www.mendocountywa.com/D...rdinance_July_2009.pdf

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: marincounty
Rural areas getting the shaft not found.

Based on your eloquent silence, I'm guessing shaft got found?