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The Valley Hope Forgot - San Joaquin Valley

T

Tequila

Senior member
No I don't like Sean Hannity the person but this piece tonight really caught my attention. I remember mention of this earlier this year but with all the distractions of the stimulus, healthcare and the recent Acorn scandal I had totally forgotten about this problem.

For some background:

http://online.wsj.com/article/...74384731898375624.html

We are basically diverting water to the ocean instead of the farmlands of this fertile valley to save the delta smelt. These farmers have lost their jobs and line up to get food donations. Farms lost approximately 900 million dollars of revenue just this year and unemployment is 15%, near 40% in one farming county. Parts of the valley are turning into a dust bowl.

So those who support the smelt over producing food please make your case. Is there something I'm missing?
 
Thanks for posting about this. I actually watched the show this evening in a later re-broadcast and it was heart wrenching to see the massive disruption that political and misguided environmental policy has caused to what used to be one of the most productive farm lands in the world.

The Valley Hope Forgot
 
This is a tough call. On the one hand you're diverting Water for Agriculture that wouldn't be possible without. On the other hand you're messing with the Natural Food Chain by diverting that Water. Personally I side with the Smelt, for the simple reason that it is important, but also because the Valley isn't suited for Agriculture if it's Water demands put at risk Natural Processes.

IMO, this is the kind of situation where Desalination makes a lot of sense. Let the Rivers flow, perhaps take a small portion of that Water for other uses, but for heavy uses, especially for turning Deserts green, Desalinate and Irrigate.
 
I used to be able to walk a few blocks from here out on a walkway over a bay canal and on moonlight nights see millions of smelt flashing in the water. I could see sturgeon and leopard sharks and gigantic eerie moon jellies. And the herons and cranes would fly over my head. All that is gone now like the salmon, nothing but sterile stagnant water with a few ducks that beg for bread. Because of self hate and insatiable ego need, the world is dying. Bit by bit the already enormously degraded consciousness of people is further degraded. Nero fiddles while Rome burns.
 
Originally posted by: Tequila
No I don't like Sean Hannity the person but this piece tonight really caught my attention. I remember mention of this earlier this year but with all the distractions of the stimulus, healthcare and the recent Acorn scandal I had totally forgotten about this problem.

For some background:

http://online.wsj.com/article/...74384731898375624.html

We are basically diverting water to the ocean instead of the farmlands of this fertile valley to save the delta smelt. These farmers have lost their jobs and line up to get food donations. Farms lost approximately 900 million dollars of revenue just this year and unemployment is 15%, near 40% in one farming county. Parts of the valley are turning into a dust bowl.

So those who support the smelt over producing food please make your case. Is there something I'm missing?
Click to expand...

Not only the farmers but thousands of illegal farmworkers are out of work because of it...Oh wait.
 
I read these sorts of stories and wonder if the ghost of Thomas Malthus is out there, somewhere in the ether wind, saying, "See, I told you so."

307 million today...perhaps 450 million by 2050...
 
Cheese mites thrive and grow like gang busters right up to the day the cheese wheel collapses in on them and brings their world to an end. Cancer does the same. You have been brainwashed to think like cancer. In your thinking is your own death.
 
The water has been diverted for farm use instead of letting it flow down to Southern California for how many years now?
 
The salmon season has been cancelled, partially due to reduced fresh water flows.
Text

According to the report, about a quarter of the state?s water-intensive crops like rice, cotton, corn, wheat and alfalfa should give way to fruits, vegetables, tree crops and row crops like tomatoes, lettuce, cucumbers and melons, which can be irrigated more selectively.

The study recommends that the state develop a more rational water rights system aimed at cutting waste. Under current law, users with the earliest water rights have the highest priority for receiving water. But with the dire situation in the Delta, a record-breaking dry spell and some communities under mandatory restrictions, the report recommends that it may be time to re-evaluate how and to whom the water is allocated.

Text

By growing less thirsty crops and investing in more efficient irrigation technology, California farmers could save billions of gallons of water each year - the equivalent of three dams to 20 dams, according to a controversial new report by an influential water policy think tank.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...PDTU.DTL#ixzz0RUN5GhWp

However, with farmers using about 80 percent of the water drawn from the critically ill Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta, researchers said agricultural water conservation must expand - and quickly.

"No one has ever evaluated the potential for improving the efficiency of agricultural water use," said Peter Gleick, president of the Pacific Institute and co-author of the report. "We found there is a lot of potential for savings ... and they're extensions of things farmers are already doing."

There is no reason to grow cotton in California's desert, it can be grown in wetter areas much more efficiently.


 
Originally posted by: marincounty
The salmon season has been cancelled, partially due to reduced fresh water flows.
Click to expand...

god damn it. Thats 2 years in a row. These farmers can go fuck themselves. Nothing like fresh copper river salmon. I won't even eat the farm raised garbage. No flavor.
 
Yeah, I was channel surfing and saw that too.

No doubt there are some (expensive) improvements that could be made to resolve this situation to all parties satisfaction.

I was left wondering why this wasn't addressed in the stimulas package?

This would seem a pretty high priority given the number of jobs, resulting loss of tax revenue for both the fed and CA government, increased cost of welfare, unemployment benefits and Medicaid. Of course then there's the food itself - I guess we'll be importing that now.

Fern
 
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: marincounty
The salmon season has been cancelled, partially due to reduced fresh water flows.
Click to expand...

god damn it. Thats 2 years in a row. These farmers can go fuck themselves. Nothing like fresh copper river salmon. I won't even eat the farm raised garbage. No flavor.
Click to expand...

Alaska's where it's at as far as salmon goes....
 
I have to agree that diverting water in order to farm in the desert is a dumb idea. Especially if it is destroying other industries (Fishing) and ruining ecosystems. Maybe instead of growing food they could find other crops or maybe start farming some energy with wind and solar power. Maybe take care of two cali problems with one swoop.
 
I live right in the middle of all this.

Personally, I think the smelt and salmon have a greater claim on the water than the farmers do. They were here first...and they NEED the water to survive.

I spent 7 years working for one of the local irrigation districts/electric companies here.

The amount of wasted water is shocking. (this is not water currently being fought over, but from a different source)

If you think the use of water to grow food crops in arid country is a waste of water, how about the billions of gallons we send to Southern Kahleeforneeya so LA can have green lawns and golf courses?

I don't know anyone on the NorCal side of the water fight who'd try to deny SoCal people drinking water, but again, the waste that occurs once it gets over the mountains is immense.

Yet another "problem" that keeps cropping up here is that of deep wells for irrigation. Currently, there is no regulation, no restriction of how deep a well can be drilled, how much water can be taken out, or what/where it's used for.

This has caused large portions of the aquifers to collaps...and/or fill with salt water as it gets sucked up the delta from the bay.

Nothing prevents me from drilling a very deep well and pumping and pumping and pumping...and drawing so much water out of the aquifer that YOUR well goes dry. Plus, since it's not regulated, that water isn't counted in the water allotments in the area.
 
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Maybe they could grow something less demanding, like Mary Jane?
Click to expand...

Yeah! That will feed so many people...
Click to expand...

Actually, it can. Hempseed oil is highly nutritious.

As for the OP, Hannity is spreading FUD again, as usual. The wingnut pretense for believing in free markets always falls apart when it comes to natural resources, when then they don't bother hiding that they expect govt to give them everything and for free.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Maybe they could grow something less demanding, like Mary Jane?
Click to expand...

Yeah! That will feed so many people...
Click to expand...

Actually, it can. Hempseed oil is highly nutritious.

As for the OP, Hannity is spreading FUD again, as usual. The wingnut pretense for believing in free markets always falls apart when it comes to natural resources, when then they don't bother hiding that they expect govt to give them everything and for free.
Click to expand...

but high quality mary jane wont have seeds 😀

also, MJ is not really "less demanding" it has pretty much the exact same requirements as a Tomato plant
 
Originally posted by: her209
The water has been diverted for farm use instead of letting it flow down to Southern California for how many years now?
Click to expand...

Ummmm...Water flow in Kahleeforneeya is normally east to west...from the mountains to the ocean...😀

Water gets from north to south mostly by canal, then pumped over the mountains into the southland. Along the way, farmers are allowed to use some of it for irrigation, but in dry years like we've been having, the farmers lose their allotment...but So Cal still gets theirs.
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
This is a tough call. On the one hand you're diverting Water for Agriculture that wouldn't be possible without. On the other hand you're messing with the Natural Food Chain by diverting that Water. Personally I side with the Smelt, for the simple reason that it is important, but also because the Valley isn't suited for Agriculture if it's Water demands put at risk Natural Processes.

IMO, this is the kind of situation where Desalination makes a lot of sense. Let the Rivers flow, perhaps take a small portion of that Water for other uses, but for heavy uses, especially for turning Deserts green, Desalinate and Irrigate.
Click to expand...

Fuck that stupid little fish. Humans are top priority all other animals come second. If this is putting hardship on humans, fuck it let it die out it obviously isn't strong enough to survive.
 
Originally posted by: bfdd
Originally posted by: sandorski
This is a tough call. On the one hand you're diverting Water for Agriculture that wouldn't be possible without. On the other hand you're messing with the Natural Food Chain by diverting that Water. Personally I side with the Smelt, for the simple reason that it is important, but also because the Valley isn't suited for Agriculture if it's Water demands put at risk Natural Processes.

IMO, this is the kind of situation where Desalination makes a lot of sense. Let the Rivers flow, perhaps take a small portion of that Water for other uses, but for heavy uses, especially for turning Deserts green, Desalinate and Irrigate.
Click to expand...

Fuck that stupid little fish. Humans are top priority all other animals come second. If this is putting hardship on humans, fuck it let it die out it obviously isn't strong enough to survive.
Click to expand...

Humans can't live on a dead planet. Fuck the fish, fuck yourself.
 
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