The Use Tax

[gevorg]

Originally posted by: Jack Flash

Originally posted by: gevorg
So they expect me to track and remember every online purchase I made?

Not that that is difficult.

Credit Card statements are electronic.
Email receipts of invoices.

Not saying I'd pay use tax on things I purchased from Amazon.

On my credit card bill, I can't always tell whether it was online purchase or not. And I have so many emails, I cannot go through every one of them and see if it was an online purchase. Does this mean I have to give access to all of my credit cards and emails to my accountant?

 

[Double Trouble]

<partisan hack comment>
I'm showing my support for the Obama cabinet, so I don't pay my taxes when I can get away with it
</partisan hack comment>

If there's a way I can pay less money for those in government to waste and get away with it, I'll do it......

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
<partisan hack comment>
I'm showing my support for the Obama cabinet, so I don't pay my taxes when I can get away with it
</partisan hack comment>

If there's a way I can pay less money for those in government to waste and get away with it, I'll do it......

So, the law means nothing to you, if you won't get caught; your word means nothing to you, if it will save you money; paying 'your fair share' means nothing to you?

I'd like to sentence you to have to be the tax collector for a while, with a stiff penalty for you if you fail, so you have to deal with people like yourself.

It's people like you who force the IRS to use harsher measures, and then people like you frequently complain about its harshness.

It's one thing to resent the flaws in the situation here, and quite another to simply have a completely irresponsible and dishonesty-promoting position on the tax issue in general.

 

[Thump553]

A quick question: my state has a line on it's state income tax return for you to declare the amount of internet, mail order or out of state purchases, and then has a space for the amount of the use tax due. If you skip the question then you have not filed a use tax return and the statute of limitations remains open much, much longer.

Do other states do this as well?

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
<partisan hack comment>
I'm showing my support for the Obama cabinet, so I don't pay my taxes when I can get away with it
</partisan hack comment>

If there's a way I can pay less money for those in government to waste and get away with it, I'll do it......

So, the law means nothing to you, if you won't get caught; your word means nothing to you, if it will save you money; paying 'your fair share' means nothing to you?

Your premise of "fair share" is wrong, so your conclusions are wrong.

I'd like to sentence you to have to be the tax collector for a while, with a stiff penalty for you if you fail, so you have to deal with people like yourself.

Oh please, I pay more in taxes than probably 75% of Americans, don't give me this "such as yourself" BS.

It's people like you who force the IRS to use harsher measures, and then people like you frequently complain about its harshness.

Hmm... to my knowledge the IRS collects federal taxes, and you were talking about state use tax. This has nothing to do with harsh IRS measures, unless you want to expand the scope of the discussion.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
<partisan hack comment>
I'm showing my support for the Obama cabinet, so I don't pay my taxes when I can get away with it
</partisan hack comment>

If there's a way I can pay less money for those in government to waste and get away with it, I'll do it......

So, the law means nothing to you, if you won't get caught; your word means nothing to you, if it will save you money; paying 'your fair share' means nothing to you?

Your premise of "fair share" is wrong, so your conclusions are wrong.

You need to learn how to make an argument. How, specifically, is it wrong, and what's your argument for why it is, would be a start.

I'd like to sentence you to have to be the tax collector for a while, with a stiff penalty for you if you fail, so you have to deal with people like yourself.

Oh please, I pay more in taxes than probably 75% of Americans, don't give me this "such as yourself" BS.

Uh, I was discussing people who express the view you expressed. Calling it 'BS' isn't much of an argument on your art. Have I suggested lately you should learn how to argue?

It's people like you who force the IRS to use harsher measures, and then people like you frequently complain about its harshness.

Hmm... to my knowledge the IRS collects federal taxes, and you were talking about state use tax. This has nothing to do with harsh IRS measures, unless you want to expand the scope of the discussion.

You made a broadly anti-tax statement, with nothing to indicate it was limited to state taxes. My point remains regardless about the 'anti-tax types'. Your 'state tax' comment:

I'm showing my support for the Obama cabinet, so I don't pay my taxes when I can get away with it [

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
<partisan hack comment>
I'm showing my support for the Obama cabinet, so I don't pay my taxes when I can get away with it
</partisan hack comment>

If there's a way I can pay less money for those in government to waste and get away with it, I'll do it......

So, the law means nothing to you, if you won't get caught; your word means nothing to you, if it will save you money; paying 'your fair share' means nothing to you?

Your premise of "fair share" is wrong, so your conclusions are wrong.

You need to learn how to make an argument. How, specifically, is it wrong, and what's your argument for why it is, would be a start.

No, it is pointless to even go down that road of discussion. Your philosophical view of a big government and government spending as good things are in direct contradiction with mine. We could never agree what a "fair share" is, so suffice it to say that your view of what is a fair share is inherently different than mine. Since I feel I'm already paying more than my "fair share", any amount I can avoid paying without running afoul of my morals or suffering legal consequences is a good thing.

Uh, I was discussing people who express the view you expressed. Calling it 'BS' isn't much of an argument on your art. Have I suggested lately you should learn how to argue?

Learn how to argue? LOL

You made a broadly anti-tax statement, with nothing to indicate it was limited to state taxes. My point remains regardless about the 'anti-tax types'. Your 'state tax' comment:

I'm showing my support for the Obama cabinet, so I don't pay my taxes when I can get away with it [

My Obama comment was even bracketed to indicate it as a joke -- I'm not sure how much more obvious I can make it.

The thread is about use tax. My comments were about the use tax.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Craig234
-snip-
The point of this thread: the lack of enforcement is a big problem - it becomes a tax on the most honest taxpayers, where probably 98%+ don't pay it.

I don't like that. It makes criminals (if they lie) or fools (if they pay) of the taxpayers.

Just thought I'd mention it as 'a problem' going on now. Currently, I plan to declare several thousands in purchases I didn't realize were taxable, and pay the tax.

You're really not a "criminal" if you don't pay. It's a civil violation, not a criminal one (those two are disticntly different).

No doubt there is some enforcement activity. However it's limited to potentially large purchases from out of state (construction firms, manufacturers etc). To hire staff to enforce on regular consumers would cost more than they could possibly find and collect. So there's a rational reason for the 'enforcement problem' you mention.

Fern

 

[Viper GTS]

I haven't paid a dime in sales tax this year. My personal way of saying "fuck you" to the government.

Let them catch me!

Viper GTS

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Craig234
-snip-
The point of this thread: the lack of enforcement is a big problem - it becomes a tax on the most honest taxpayers, where probably 98%+ don't pay it.

I don't like that. It makes criminals (if they lie) or fools (if they pay) of the taxpayers.

Just thought I'd mention it as 'a problem' going on now. Currently, I plan to declare several thousands in purchases I didn't realize were taxable, and pay the tax.

You're really not a "criminal" if you don't pay. It's a civil violation, not a criminal one (those two are disticntly different).

You sign that the return is accurate under penalty of perjury, and perjury is a crime. Tax avoidance is both a civil offense and a crime, dependning on the offense.

No doubt there is some enforcement activity. However it's limited to potentially large purchases from out of state (construction firms, manufacturers etc). To hire staff to enforce on regular consumers would cost more than they could possibly find and collect. So there's a rational reason for the 'enforcement problem' you mention.

Fern

I agree there's a 'rational reason' for the enforcement problem, if you thought I was saying otherwise; but it's still a problem that this is a 'tax on being honest'.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
I haven't paid a dime in sales tax this year. My personal way of saying "fuck you" to the government.

Let them catch me!

Viper GTS

See my responses above re: tax avoiders. If you want to say that to the government, are you against democracy, our system that created this government? Why don't you leave?

Or is it that there's no rationality of principle to your position, just the rule of the thief and the cheat to get away with what theft you can, and to hide behind the skirt of protest?

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
I haven't paid a dime in sales tax this year. My personal way of saying "fuck you" to the government.

Let them catch me!

Viper GTS

See my responses above re: tax avoiders. If you want to say that to the government, are you against democracy, our system that created this government? Why don't you leave?

Or is it that there's no rationality of principle to your position, just the rule of the thief and the cheat to get away with what theft you can, and to hide behind the skirt of protest?

I'm sure Viper will post his own reply, but no, I'm not against democracy at all, but that doesn't mean parts of the system have not spun out of control and created some very bad realities. And no, I don't see it as any kind of "theft" to not want to see more of my money wasted. I'm providing plenty of money for them to waste already, I'd like to keep my contribution to that waste as small as I can.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
I haven't paid a dime in sales tax this year. My personal way of saying "fuck you" to the government.

Let them catch me!

Viper GTS

See my responses above re: tax avoiders. If you want to say that to the government, are you against democracy, our system that created this government? Why don't you leave?

Or is it that there's no rationality of principle to your position, just the rule of the thief and the cheat to get away with what theft you can, and to hide behind the skirt of protest?

I'm not hiding behind anything. I just order as much as possible online, & when I must shop locally I use stores that don't collect sales tax.

Viper GTS

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
I haven't paid a dime in sales tax this year. My personal way of saying "fuck you" to the government.

Let them catch me!

Viper GTS

See my responses above re: tax avoiders. If you want to say that to the government, are you against democracy, our system that created this government? Why don't you leave?

Or is it that there's no rationality of principle to your position, just the rule of the thief and the cheat to get away with what theft you can, and to hide behind the skirt of protest?

I'm sure Viper will post his own reply, but no, I'm not against democracy at all, but that doesn't mean parts of the system have not spun out of control and created some very bad realities. And no, I don't see it as any kind of "theft" to not want to see more of my money wasted. I'm providing plenty of money for them to waste already, I'd like to keep my contribution to that waste as small as I can.

If you want to convince me that your actions are anything better than lipstick on the pig of your stealing from society, then donate the taxes you are not paying to charity (obviously, in addition to the charitable giving you would othrwise do). Then you can claim *some* principle, whether or not it's misguided that the democratically approved spending is 'waste'.

People who oppose things on principle - say miitary spending, such as Thoreau's refusal to pay taxes for the US invasion of Mexico and his going to jail - are one thing.

Putting money in your pocket and proclaiming some grand principle is behind it about 'not supporting waste' is another.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
I haven't paid a dime in sales tax this year. My personal way of saying "fuck you" to the government.

Let them catch me!

Viper GTS

See my responses above re: tax avoiders. If you want to say that to the government, are you against democracy, our system that created this government? Why don't you leave?

Or is it that there's no rationality of principle to your position, just the rule of the thief and the cheat to get away with what theft you can, and to hide behind the skirt of protest?

I'm not hiding behind anything. I just order as much as possible online, & when I must shop locally I use stores that don't collect sales tax.

Viper GTS

Yes, you are. Instead of saying what you are doing - stealing by not following the tax laws for your own gain - you are using rhetoric about it being some 'anti government principle'.

As I said to the other poster who similarly takesyour position, donate the difference in funds to charity above what you would donate, and then you can begin to claim that.

 

[Fern]

"Tax avoidance" is 100% legal.

It's tax evasion that is illegal

Fern

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

I'm showing my support for the Obama cabinet, so I don't pay my taxes when I can get away with it [

My Obama comment was even bracketed to indicate it as a joke -- I'm not sure how much more obvious I can make it.

The topic is obviously not your 'Obama joke', but the bolded text following it, which I presume is not 'a joke'.

The thread is about use tax. My comments were about the use tax.

Show me anywhere in youf comments that limits them to the use tax:

No, it is pointless to even go down that road of discussion. Your philosophical view of a big government and government spending as good things are in direct contradiction with mine. We could never agree what a "fair share" is, so suffice it to say that your view of what is a fair share is inherently different than mine. Since I feel I'm already paying more than my "fair share", any amount I can avoid paying without running afoul of my morals or suffering legal consequences is a good thing.

Indeed, you are explicit, such as in the bolded text above, at making it a general comment about taxes, not specific to the 'use tax'.

It doesn't change much either way, if you arbitrarily limit your 'stand' to the use tax or not (which migh happen to be the only tax you can easily get away with cheatin gon).

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Fern
"Tax avoidance" is 100% legal.

It's tax evasion that is illegal

Fern

Every post I've made on this has clearly referred to the act of not paying the taxes owed, and falsifying the return, as what's being criticized - 'tax evasion'.

If you wanted to make a semantic point on definition, you made it.

I don't see any confusion that needed the clarifcation though.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
I haven't paid a dime in sales tax this year. My personal way of saying "fuck you" to the government.

Let them catch me!

Viper GTS

I see what you did there. LOL

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

I'm showing my support for the Obama cabinet, so I don't pay my taxes when I can get away with it [

My Obama comment was even bracketed to indicate it as a joke -- I'm not sure how much more obvious I can make it.

The topic is obviously not your 'Obama joke', but the bolded text following it, which I presume is not 'a joke'.

The thread is about use tax. My comments were about the use tax.

Show me anywhere in youf comments that limits them to the use tax:

No, it is pointless to even go down that road of discussion. Your philosophical view of a big government and government spending as good things are in direct contradiction with mine. We could never agree what a "fair share" is, so suffice it to say that your view of what is a fair share is inherently different than mine. Since I feel I'm already paying more than my "fair share", any amount I can avoid paying without running afoul of my morals or suffering legal consequences is a good thing.

Indeed, you are explicit, such as in the bolded text above, at making it a general comment about taxes, not specific to the 'use tax'.

It doesn't change much either way, if you arbitrarily limit your 'stand' to the use tax or not (which migh happen to be the only tax you can easily get away with cheatin gon).

While I agree on principle with the original topic of discussion, you are one of the most humorless morons on the planet. I'd tell you to loosen up that asshole some and go out and get your drink on, but instead of having any fun, you'd just wind up puking or poisoned. Jesus you are pathetic.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
I haven't paid a dime in sales tax this year. My personal way of saying "fuck you" to the government.

Let them catch me!

Viper GTS

See my responses above re: tax avoiders. If you want to say that to the government, are you against democracy, our system that created this government? Why don't you leave?

Or is it that there's no rationality of principle to your position, just the rule of the thief and the cheat to get away with what theft you can, and to hide behind the skirt of protest?

I'm not hiding behind anything. I just order as much as possible online, & when I must shop locally I use stores that don't collect sales tax.

Viper GTS

Yes, you are. Instead of saying what you are doing - stealing by not following the tax laws for your own gain - you are using rhetoric about it being some 'anti government principle'.

As I said to the other poster who similarly takesyour position, donate the difference in funds to charity above what you would donate, and then you can begin to claim that.

You are way too easy to fuck with. Point to Viper.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Craig234
TurboTax made it clear this year: Did you buy anything from out of state that you used in your state and did not pay sales tax on?

You can pay or you can lie.

The Use Tax, passed in 1935, requires that if you buy something - by mail, phone, internet - from out of state, you have to pay the same tax as the sales tax.

(For me, that's 8.75%).

Thousands on a new big screen? Thousands to Amazon? All you owe taxes on now.

The point of this thread: the lack of enforcement is a big problem - it becomes a tax on the most honest taxpayers, where probably 98%+ don't pay it.

I don't like that. It makes criminals (if they lie) or fools (if they pay) of the taxpayers.

Just thought I'd mention it as 'a problem' going on now. Currently, I plan to declare several thousands in purchases I didn't realize were taxable, and pay the tax.

It's one thing when you 'pay your fair share', though, and another when you are one of very few paying.

Glad you are paying. I am sure your government knows how to(invest) that money much better than you ever could.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
I haven't paid a dime in sales tax this year. My personal way of saying "fuck you" to the government.

Let them catch me!

Viper GTS

Let me get this straight, you haven't purchased ANYTHING since 12/31/2008 ?

Or do you think you're being clever because you live in (EDIT: or nearby) a state with no sales tax ?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Craig234
TurboTax made it clear this year: Did you buy anything from out of state that you used in your state and did not pay sales tax on?

You can pay or you can lie.

The Use Tax, passed in 1935, requires that if you buy something - by mail, phone, internet - from out of state, you have to pay the same tax as the sales tax.

(For me, that's 8.75%).

Thousands on a new big screen? Thousands to Amazon? All you owe taxes on now.

The point of this thread: the lack of enforcement is a big problem - it becomes a tax on the most honest taxpayers, where probably 98%+ don't pay it.

I don't like that. It makes criminals (if they lie) or fools (if they pay) of the taxpayers.

Just thought I'd mention it as 'a problem' going on now. Currently, I plan to declare several thousands in purchases I didn't realize were taxable, and pay the tax.

It's one thing when you 'pay your fair share', though, and another when you are one of very few paying.

Glad you are paying. I am sure your government knows how to(invest) that money much better than you ever could.

Not that idiotic line again. Spare me.

I could answer you, but it's like trying to teach a pig to sing, as the saying goes.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
I haven't paid a dime in sales tax this year. My personal way of saying "fuck you" to the government.

Let them catch me!

Viper GTS

Let me get this straight, you haven't purchased ANYTHING since 12/31/2008 ?

Or do you think you're being clever because you live in (EDIT: or nearby) a state with no sales tax ?

He seems to think he's being clever by describing his living in a state with no sales tax as 'saying (profanisty) to the government', which makes no sense.