The US is being hypocritical

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: lozina
So is there some hypocrisy going on? I don't think so- they have not expressed any opinion on the morality of the attack by condemning it or supporting it. By saying they are 'deeply troubled' they are covering their own asses and staying on the fence. It is rather weak of them but hey, that's a typical politician's response.

Of course, it's ass covering at it's finest. However, I feel that it's still hypocritical for the US to be deeply troubled by another country doing EXACTLY what the US wants to do to Bin Laden.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

The big problem is that Israel succeeds in hitting its targets. What an embaressment to out intelligence/targeting capabilites.

You seriously think the challenges are similar. I don't.

The US has the problem in lack of coordination in analyzing the intelligence effectively to pull the trigger fast.
Too many fingers are in the pie and we were unable to have the proper effective resources in place when needed.

What if scenarios are debated/played out for so long that the initial problem may no longer exist.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: chess9
Nothwithstanding the unfortunate choice of words by MegaWorks, the truth is there are about 1 billion Muslims and there are about, what, 14 million or less Jews? For every Muslim extremist killed, 2 will take his place. Put another way, that's about 715 Muslims per Jew. Obviously, compromise makes sense. Otherwise, Israel will spend it's entire existence waging war.

-Robert

The only reason Israel still is exists is because of it's uncompromising stands that it takes. You hit us - we hit you back harder. That being said, of course they will have to work out some kind of deal. Sharon is willing to entirely pull out of Gaza, but he wanted to smash Hamas first, otherwise they may easily become the ruling power once the Israelis leave.

Again, supposition. I can just as easily say the only reason Israel exists is because the Muslims are not filled with as much hatred of ISrael as some would want me to believe. The eye for an eye and a few limbs strategy is fundamentaly flawed, in my opinion.

You can say what you want, but in this case you'd just be wrong. Musilim countries have had their collective asses beat pretty bad when they've attacked Israel. That has nothing to do with their lack of hatred. They just got beat.

because Israel is fighting these stupid governments, but go ahead and give democracy to arabe nations trust me Israel will be go no time! thats way the US will never give real Democracy to muslims because it's gonna turn back againt them and Israel!

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
because Israel is fighting these stupid governments, but go ahead and give democracy to arabe nations trust me Israel will be go no time! thats way the US will never give real Democracy to muslims because it's gonna turn back againt them and Israel!

That is a real flawed conclusion you come to. Bringing democracy to the rest if the middle east is a goal of the US and Israel.

Out of curiosity, what percentage of the wars fought in the last century, were fought between two democracies?

It's apparent that the answer will be surprising to you or else you never would have made the above statement.

 

[chess9]

Israel has a right to defend itself and go after terrorists. But it has a duty to its people to pursue peace aggressively. I don't see that happening on either side. (FWIW, I am actually more pro Israel than I'm letting on, but I'm very disappointed with Sharon.)

This same debate has been going on in Israel for over 50 years, BTW, as I'm guessing you know.

-Robert

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't disagree, in principle, that we have some problems. I think we have a much more difficult and intractible intelligence problem than Israel in that Al Quaeda is really global in scope and not localized as the Palistinian problem is. We also don't have almost our entire national resources focused in that one area. We have a lot more fish to fry.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Comments?

I agree with your assertions, sir; I have argued that the U.S. is hypocritical when it comes to defending our country, yet at the same time attempt to tie Israel's hands in an effort to show "restraint." In a previous thread, I said the U.S. should allow Israel to "unleash the dogs or war," much like we would do if Canadians started crossing our boarders and blowing up innocent woman and children in the name of the Queen.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Comments?

I agree with your assertions, sir; I have argued that the U.S. is hypocritical when it comes to defending our country, yet at the same time attempt to tie Israel's hands in an effort to show "restraint." In a previous thread, I said the U.S. should allow Israel to "unleash the dogs or war," much like we would do if Canadians started crossing our boarders and blowing up innocent woman and children in the name of the Queen.

Sharon wants to perpetuate the war. Sharon has always, throughout his career, tried to sabotage or undermine any attempt at peace in the region. The murder of Yasin is aimed at elevating the conflict to a religious war.

Currently Israel is facing a demographic bomb of sorts. Very soon the Palestinians (Israeli Arabs) will outnumber the Israelis in Israel. If there is no war Israel will be forced to allow the Palestinians their democratic rights which would result in the paradox that in the end the Palestinians, when they have grown numerous enough, would simply vote Israel out of existence.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: GrGr

Currently Israel is facing a demographic bomb of sorts. Very soon the Palestinians (Israeli Arabs) will outnumber the Israelis in Israel. If there is no war Israel will be forced to allow the Palestinians their democratic rights which would result in the paradox that in the end the Palestinians, when they have grown numerous enough, would simply vote Israel out of existence.

"vote them out of existence." Now that's funny.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: lozina
So is there some hypocrisy going on? I don't think so- they have not expressed any opinion on the morality of the attack by condemning it or supporting it. By saying they are 'deeply troubled' they are covering their own asses and staying on the fence. It is rather weak of them but hey, that's a typical politician's response.

Of course, it's ass covering at it's finest. However, I feel that it's still hypocritical for the US to be deeply troubled by another country doing EXACTLY what the US wants to do to Bin Laden.

I respect your assertion, but don't you think it's hypocritical to equate this man to a bin Laden when Israel had this guy in prison not too long ago, and willingly released him? That says alot about how much of a threat they feel this man is.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: lozina
So is there some hypocrisy going on? I don't think so- they have not expressed any opinion on the morality of the attack by condemning it or supporting it. By saying they are 'deeply troubled' they are covering their own asses and staying on the fence. It is rather weak of them but hey, that's a typical politician's response.

Of course, it's ass covering at it's finest. However, I feel that it's still hypocritical for the US to be deeply troubled by another country doing EXACTLY what the US wants to do to Bin Laden.

I respect your assertion, but don't you think it's hypocritical to equate this man to a bin Laden when Israel had this guy in prison not too long ago, and willingly released him? That says alot about how much of a threat they feel this man is.

They did not willingly release him. It was a prisoner exchange with Jordan. The Mossad screwed up and got a few of its agents nabbed in Jordan. In order to get them back, King Hussein required the release of Yassin. They did it to save the necks of their agents.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: lozina
So is there some hypocrisy going on? I don't think so- they have not expressed any opinion on the morality of the attack by condemning it or supporting it. By saying they are 'deeply troubled' they are covering their own asses and staying on the fence. It is rather weak of them but hey, that's a typical politician's response.

Of course, it's ass covering at it's finest. However, I feel that it's still hypocritical for the US to be deeply troubled by another country doing EXACTLY what the US wants to do to Bin Laden.

I respect your assertion, but don't you think it's hypocritical to equate this man to a bin Laden when Israel had this guy in prison not too long ago, and willingly released him? That says alot about how much of a threat they feel this man is.

They did not willingly release him. It was a prisoner exchange with Jordan. The Mossad screwed up and got a few of its agents nabbed in Jordan. In order to get them back, King Hussein required the release of Yassin. They did it to save the necks of their agents.

I understand, but if this man Yassin was such a threat, wouldn't it be foolish to trade him for a few agents? I mean, wouldn't a few (two agents, was it?) be an acceptable sacrifice for saving potentially hundreds of Israeli civilians, assuming Yassin was such a threat?

I think our air force was committed and ready to shoot down one of those 767's sacrificing approx. a hundred lives to potentially save many more, if they had the opportunity.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: GrGr

Currently Israel is facing a demographic bomb of sorts. Very soon the Palestinians (Israeli Arabs) will outnumber the Israelis in Israel. If there is no war Israel will be forced to allow the Palestinians their democratic rights which would result in the paradox that in the end the Palestinians, when they have grown numerous enough, would simply vote Israel out of existence.

"vote them out of existence." Now that's funny.

...doublespeak at its finest.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: lozina
So is there some hypocrisy going on? I don't think so- they have not expressed any opinion on the morality of the attack by condemning it or supporting it. By saying they are 'deeply troubled' they are covering their own asses and staying on the fence. It is rather weak of them but hey, that's a typical politician's response.

Of course, it's ass covering at it's finest. However, I feel that it's still hypocritical for the US to be deeply troubled by another country doing EXACTLY what the US wants to do to Bin Laden.

I respect your assertion, but don't you think it's hypocritical to equate this man to a bin Laden when Israel had this guy in prison not too long ago, and willingly released him? That says alot about how much of a threat they feel this man is.

They did not willingly release him. It was a prisoner exchange with Jordan. The Mossad screwed up and got a few of its agents nabbed in Jordan. In order to get them back, King Hussein required the release of Yassin. They did it to save the necks of their agents.

I understand, but if this man Yassin was such a threat, wouldn't it be foolish to trade him for a few agents? I mean, wouldn't a few (two agents, was it?) be an acceptable sacrifice for saving potentially hundreds of Israeli civilians, assuming Yassin was such a threat?

I think our air force was committed and ready to shoot down one of those 767's sacrificing approx. a hundred lives to potentially save many more, if they had the opportunity.

I obviously can't be sure about this, but I would assume that they were thinking that if necessary they can take him out at a later time if need be. Besides, I have no idea what those agents knew which Israel did not want Jordan to know. It was probably an intelligence decision.