The US is being hypocritical

[ThePresence]

The US is "deeply troubled" by Israel's killing of Yassin. They did stop short of condeming Israel, but they came pretty damn close. IMO, there is not the slightest difference between Israel killing this murderer and the US going after Bin Laden. This guy has the blood of thousands of Israeli civillians on his hands and wanted more. Alot more.

But I understand their hypocricy. It's called Foreign Policy. Foreign Policy will always be hypocritical, because the US is looking after it's own interests - as they should. The US is no friend of Israel and Israel is no friend of the US. There are no "friends" in foreign relations, just mutual interests. When it's for the benefit of the US to support Israel, they do. When it's not, the don't. And vice versa.
The US is looking after themselves - as they should, and the hell with everyone else. It's the correct way for a government to run a country, to care for it's citizens before someone elses citizens. It's ugly and hypocritical, but it's the real world.

Comments?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
The US is "deeply troubled" by Israel's killing of Yassin. They did stop short of condeming Israel, but they came pretty damn close. IMO, there is not the slightest difference between Israel killing this murderer and the US going after Bin Laden. This guy has the blood of thousands of Israeli civillians on his hands and wanted more. Alot more.

But I understand their hypocricy. It's called Foreign Policy. Foreign Policy will always be hypocritical, because the US is looking after it's own interests - as they should. The US is no friend of Israel and Israel is no friend of the US. There are no "friends" in foreign relations, just mutual interests. When it's for the benefit of the US to support Israel, they do. When it's not, the don't. And vice versa.
The US is looking after themselves - as they should, and the hell with everyone else. It's the correct way for a government to run a country, to care for it's citizens before someone elses citizens. It's ugly and hypocritical, but it's the real world.

Comments?

What you call the real world, is the illusory world of the insane. The real world is heaven and every person is a divine being. That should explain why we call this the real world. It does two things that are really the same. It keeps us from dying from sadness, and it keeps us from remembering that we died from sadness a long time ago. He who dies in His name finds eternal life, or he who dies to his name transcends the perception of time.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ThePresence
The US is "deeply troubled" by Israel's killing of Yassin. They did stop short of condeming Israel, but they came pretty damn close. IMO, there is not the slightest difference between Israel killing this murderer and the US going after Bin Laden. This guy has the blood of thousands of Israeli civillians on his hands and wanted more. Alot more.

But I understand their hypocricy. It's called Foreign Policy. Foreign Policy will always be hypocritical, because the US is looking after it's own interests - as they should. The US is no friend of Israel and Israel is no friend of the US. There are no "friends" in foreign relations, just mutual interests. When it's for the benefit of the US to support Israel, they do. When it's not, the don't. And vice versa.
The US is looking after themselves - as they should, and the hell with everyone else. It's the correct way for a government to run a country, to care for it's citizens before someone elses citizens. It's ugly and hypocritical, but it's the real world.

Comments?

What you call the real world, is the illusory world of the insane. The real world is heaven and every person is a divine being. That should explain why we call this the real world. It does two things that are really the same. It keeps us from dying from sadness, and it keeps us from remembering that we died from sadness a long time ago. He who dies in His name finds eternal life, or he who dies to his name transcends the perception of time.

Sorry, I haven't taken my 'shrooms yet today.

 

[EagleKeeper]

There is also the public perception and the private understanding.

The big problem is that Israel succeeds in hitting its targets. What an embaressment to out intelligence/targeting capabilites.

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is also the public perception and the private understanding.

The big problem is that Israel succeeds in hitting its targets. What an embaressment to out intelligence/targeting capabilites.

Eh... Israel also said there was WMD in Iraq, but when we went to the places they said, nothing was there.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is also the public perception and the private understanding.

The big problem is that Israel succeeds in hitting its targets. What an embaressment to out intelligence/targeting capabilites.

You seriously think the challenges are similar. I don't.

 

[Chris A]

I just finished reading a big thread in another forum. The title was almost the same but the writer was not.

He was calling US. a hypocrite because we did not condem Isreal for killing Yassin. Said we were controlled by the Jews and that every other nation has condemed Isreal but the US.

I guess we are damed if we do and damed if we dont in the world eyes.

 

[chess9]

No doubt Yassin deserved death. But Sharon is the worst leader Israel has ever had. He's a butcher and thief and an embarrassment to Israel. I weep for Israel...and am ashamed.

When they are done killing our children's grandchildren we will still be hearing the same news unless Israel and the Palestinians both get leaders with vision and courage.

What do you want the U.S. to do, pat Sharon on the back? <Nice boy, you killed another terrorist (we won't mention the innocent civilians)>. Anyway, Bush isn't putting any pressure on Israel, so what more could they ask? They could nuke the West Bank and Gaza and Bush wouldn't say a word.

-Robert

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: chess9
No doubt Yassin deserved death. But Sharon is the worst leader Israel has ever had. He's a butcher and thief and an embarrassment to Israel. I weep for Israel...and am ashamed.

When they are done killing our children's grandchildren we will still be hearing the same news unless Israel and the Palestinians both get leaders with vision and courage.

What do you want the U.S. to do, pat Sharon on the back? <Nice boy, you killed another terrorist (we won't mention the innocent civilians)>. Anyway, Bush isn't putting any pressure on Israel, so what more could they ask? They could nuke the West Bank and Gaza and Bush wouldn't say a word.

-Robert

Oh boy, more progress. I will need zoloft before this is over.

 

[DBL]

I totally agree but I guess it is to be expected.

Here we have the leader of Hamas, an organization whose stated goal is the ELIMINATION of Israel and who is directly responsible for the murder of hundreds of Israeli citizens and the world has the audacity to complain after he has finally gotten what he deserved.

Israel is not naive. They understand the hate they are going to dredge up by assassinating leading terror figures. However, they like the United States, realize that the benefits outweight the consequences. I believe Israel truly believes that they have made progress in stopping terror related atrocities in the last couple of years. Surely, some things will slip through the cracks but in general, it will be far less prevalent than before. They have done this through a variety of steps which include the building the West Bank security fence, increased border checkpoints, targeted killings of terrorists, etc.

Additionally, I believe Israel has noticed that quite ironically, the leaders of Hamas and other terror organizations are quite fearful of being killed and have in the past laid very low when they felt threatened by Israel. All of Israels actions have already had their intended effect as civilian deaths have decreased significantly in the last year.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: chess9
No doubt Yassin deserved death. But Sharon is the worst leader Israel has ever had. He's a butcher and thief and an embarrassment to Israel. I weep for Israel...and am ashamed.

Israel can certainly do better than Sharon, it's time for him to go. But this recent action is one of the better things he's done.

When they are done killing our children's grandchildren we will still be hearing the same news unless Israel and the Palestinians both get leaders with vision and courage.

Agreed. However, my definition of vision and courage may be very different than yours.

What do you want the U.S. to do, pat Sharon on the back? <Nice boy, you killed another terrorist (we won't mention the innocent civilians)>.

Are Palestinian civillians more important than Israeli civillians? By killing this terrorist (and seven of his bodyguards - which are hardly innocent civillians) they probably saved thousands of Israeli civillians in the long run. Oh sure, it won't look that way in the sort-term.

Anyway, Bush isn't putting any pressure on Israel, so what more could they ask? They could nuke the West Bank and Gaza and Bush wouldn't say a word.

-Robert

They can ask for the double standard to be dropped. The US is doing the exact same thing with going after Bin Laden. But it's to be expected I guess.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: chess9
No doubt Yassin deserved death. But Sharon is the worst leader Israel has ever had. He's a butcher and thief and an embarrassment to Israel. I weep for Israel...and am ashamed.

Israel can certainly do better than Sharon, it's time for him to go. But this recent action is one of the better things he's done.

When they are done killing our children's grandchildren we will still be hearing the same news unless Israel and the Palestinians both get leaders with vision and courage.

Agreed. However, my definition of vision and courage may be very different than yours.

What do you want the U.S. to do, pat Sharon on the back? <Nice boy, you killed another terrorist (we won't mention the innocent civilians)>.

Are Palestinian civillians more important than Israeli civillians? By killing this terrorist (and seven of his bodyguards - which are hardly innocent civillians) they probably saved thousands of Israeli civillians in the long run. Oh sure, it won't look that way in the sort-term.

Anyway, Bush isn't putting any pressure on Israel, so what more could they ask? They could nuke the West Bank and Gaza and Bush wouldn't say a word.

-Robert

They can ask for the double standard to be dropped. The US is doing the exact same thing with going after Bin Laden. But it's to be expected I guess.

LOL! you realy think by killing him the attacks will decrease, havn't you guys learn anything from Hezbullah. Israel kill the top Hezbullah leader in the past, by doing that the attacks increased on Israeli soldiers and guess what happened Israel lost the war! the attacks will increase in Israel. If you think otherways then your just another ignorant person!

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
LOL! you realy think by killing him the attacks will decrease, havn't you guys learn anything from Hezbullah. Israel kill the top Hezbullah leader in the past, by doing that the attacks increased on Israeli soldiers and guess what happened Israel lost the war! the attacks will increase in Israel. If you think otherways then your just another ignorant person!

So anybody that doesn't think your way is ignorant?
In the short-term the attacks will probably increase. In the long-term, they put a serious hurting on Hamas. And they will continue to do so.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is also the public perception and the private understanding.

The big problem is that Israel succeeds in hitting its targets. What an embaressment to out intelligence/targeting capabilites.

Eh... Israel also said there was WMD in Iraq, but when we went to the places they said, nothing was there.

When Israel plans on going after a target, they succeed. They can not afford to fail often.


Regarding WMD:
A problem with the whole WMD story is that the intelligence was based on old and incomplete data. Much data was just passed around for evaluation between agencies and key indicators that may have raised questions were either ignored and/or never forwarded.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
LOL! you realy think by killing him the attacks will decrease, havn't you guys learn anything from Hezbullah. Israel kill the top Hezbullah leader in the past, by doing that the attacks increased on Israeli soldiers and guess what happened Israel lost the war! the attacks will increase in Israel. If you think otherways then your just another ignorant person!

So anybody that doesn't think your way is ignorant?
In the short-term the attacks will probably increase. In the long-term, they put a serious hurting on Hamas. And they will continue to do so.

lol! you're so funny that won't work, this is Hamas we're talking about not some gang on the block. Hamas knows that they're top leader will get killed someday or another, but they chose this path and they're willing to resist no matter what. You don't have to believe me it's your choice, but time will tell sooner or later time will tell!

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is also the public perception and the private understanding.

The big problem is that Israel succeeds in hitting its targets. What an embaressment to out intelligence/targeting capabilites.

Eh... Israel also said there was WMD in Iraq, but when we went to the places they said, nothing was there.

When Israel plans on going after a target, they succeed. They can not afford to fail often.


Regarding WMD:
A problem with the whole WMD story is that the intelligence was based on old and incomplete data. Much data was just passed around for evaluation between agencies and key indicators that may have raised questions were either ignored and/or never forwarded.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is also the public perception and the private understanding.

The big problem is that Israel succeeds in hitting its targets. What an embaressment to out intelligence/targeting capabilites.

Eh... Israel also said there was WMD in Iraq, but when we went to the places they said, nothing was there.

When Israel plans on going after a target, they succeed. They can not afford to fail often.


Regarding WMD:
A problem with the whole WMD story is that the intelligence was based on old and incomplete data. Much data was just passed around for evaluation between agencies and key indicators that may have raised questions were either ignored and/or never forwarded.

The target wasn't really that hard to hit. A target on daily rounds coming out of a Mosque, in a wheelchair, as he did every day. Failure would have been almost impossible.

 

[chess9]

Nothwithstanding the unfortunate choice of words by MegaWorks, the truth is there are about 1 billion Muslims and there are about, what, 14 million or less Jews? For every Muslim extremist killed, 2 will take his place. Put another way, that's about 715 Muslims per Jew. Obviously, compromise makes sense. Otherwise, Israel will spend it's entire existence waging war.

-Robert

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: chess9
Nothwithstanding the unfortunate choice of words by MegaWorks, the truth is there are about 1 billion Muslims and there are about, what, 14 million or less Jews? For every Muslim extremist killed, 2 will take his place. Put another way, that's about 715 Muslims per Jew. Obviously, compromise makes sense. Otherwise, Israel will spend it's entire existence waging war.

-Robert

The only reason Israel still is exists is because of it's uncompromising stands that it takes. You hit us - we hit you back harder. That being said, of course they will have to work out some kind of deal. Sharon is willing to entirely pull out of Gaza, but he wanted to smash Hamas first, otherwise they may easily become the ruling power once the Israelis leave.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is also the public perception and the private understanding.

The big problem is that Israel succeeds in hitting its targets. What an embaressment to out intelligence/targeting capabilites.

Eh... Israel also said there was WMD in Iraq, but when we went to the places they said, nothing was there.

When Israel plans on going after a target, they succeed.

Not to rain on your parade or anything but I mean this kind of arrogance is disturbing. Example: Mossad tried to assassinate Khaled Mashal but failed.

Originally posted by: DBL


All of Israels actions have already had their intended effect as civilian deaths have decreased significantly in the last year.

That would be one interpretation. Others will argue the signifigance of the Road Map's role in slowing down violence. But out of curiosity may I see the statistics you were looking at that shows deceased number of deaths this year?

Originally posted by: ThePresence


Are Palestinian civillians more important than Israeli civillians? By killing this terrorist (and seven of his bodyguards - which are hardly innocent civillians) they probably saved thousands of Israeli civillians in the long run. Oh sure, it won't look that way in the sort-term.

Assuming the seven people killed in that attack were his bodyguards (I have seen no such indication on the news I have read) what about the many others that were severely injured? Does that not count? He was leaving a public mosque, he was not in some cave surrounded by his militant followers. I know there would be equal outrage to the USA if they launched missiles at Osama Bin Laden while he was in a public mosque along with innocent civilians. Perhaps alot of Americans would be arguing the same position as you, to justify such an attack, but the rest of the world would be condemning it just as much as they are condemning Israel's current action.

So is there some hypocrisy going on? I don't think so- they have not expressed any opinion on the morality of the attack by condemning it or supporting it. By saying they are 'deeply troubled' they are covering their own asses and staying on the fence. It is rather weak of them but hey, that's a typical politician's response.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: chess9
Nothwithstanding the unfortunate choice of words by MegaWorks, the truth is there are about 1 billion Muslims and there are about, what, 14 million or less Jews? For every Muslim extremist killed, 2 will take his place. Put another way, that's about 715 Muslims per Jew. Obviously, compromise makes sense. Otherwise, Israel will spend it's entire existence waging war.

-Robert

The only reason Israel still is exists is because of it's uncompromising stands that it takes. You hit us - we hit you back harder. That being said, of course they will have to work out some kind of deal. Sharon is willing to entirely pull out of Gaza, but he wanted to smash Hamas first, otherwise they may easily become the ruling power once the Israelis leave.

Again, supposition. I can just as easily say the only reason Israel exists is because the Muslims are not filled with as much hatred of ISrael as some would want me to believe. The eye for an eye and a few limbs strategy is fundamentaly flawed, in my opinion.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: lozina

That would be one interpretation. Others will argue the signifigance of the Road Map's role in slowing down violence. But out of curiosity may I see the statistics you were looking at that shows deceased number of deaths this year?

Sure thing.

Todays NY Times Front Page

Death of Sheik Raises Question of Hamas Fate

After nearly two years of systematic Israeli raids against Hamas and other violent Palestinian groups, suicide bombings fell to 20 last year, down from 54 a year earlier. Over all, Israeli deaths fell by half in 2003 compared with 2002.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: chess9
Nothwithstanding the unfortunate choice of words by MegaWorks, the truth is there are about 1 billion Muslims and there are about, what, 14 million or less Jews? For every Muslim extremist killed, 2 will take his place. Put another way, that's about 715 Muslims per Jew. Obviously, compromise makes sense. Otherwise, Israel will spend it's entire existence waging war.

-Robert

The only reason Israel still is exists is because of it's uncompromising stands that it takes. You hit us - we hit you back harder. That being said, of course they will have to work out some kind of deal. Sharon is willing to entirely pull out of Gaza, but he wanted to smash Hamas first, otherwise they may easily become the ruling power once the Israelis leave.

Again, supposition. I can just as easily say the only reason Israel exists is because the Muslims are not filled with as much hatred of ISrael as some would want me to believe. The eye for an eye and a few limbs strategy is fundamentaly flawed, in my opinion.

You can say what you want, but in this case you'd just be wrong. Musilim countries have had their collective asses beat pretty bad when they've attacked Israel. That has nothing to do with their lack of hatred. They just got beat.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: lozina
So is there some hypocrisy going on? I don't think so- they morality of the attack. By saying they are 'deeply troubled' they are covering their own asses and staying on the fence. Rathehave not condemned the attack and they have not publicized any opinion on the r weak of them but hey, that's a typical politician's response.

I'd like to respond, but I'm having trouble understanding what you were trying to type.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: lozina
So is there some hypocrisy going on? I don't think so- they morality of the attack. By saying they are 'deeply troubled' they are covering their own asses and staying on the fence. Rathehave not condemned the attack and they have not publicized any opinion on the r weak of them but hey, that's a typical politician's response.

I'd like to respond, but I'm having trouble understanding what you were trying to type.

Sorry about that, I must have had some excess electromagnetic radiation from my monitor frying my brain there. I fixed the original thread...