The Upcoming Arizona "Birther" Law...

[IceBergSLiM]

False dilemma. No one in this thread is suggesting this.

ok just making sure. I wasn't sure what I was reading.

 

[Deeko]

I don't have my long form birth certificate. I've never seen it before, and I don't know if it even exists. I sure hope I never run for President or I'm screwed in Arizona!

 

[Pens1566]

lol, birthers

 

[etrigan420]

I don't have my long form birth certificate. I've never seen it before, and I don't know if it even exists. I sure hope I never run for President or I'm screwed in Arizona!

Me neither...

I'm not even really sure what a "long form" birth certificate is.

My "short form" certificate was certainly enough to allow me to join the Navy, vote, and get a passport.

 

[umbrella39]

The Birther movement... the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[trenchfoot]

I don't have my long form birth certificate. I've never seen it before, and I don't know if it even exists. I sure hope I never run for President or I'm screwed in Arizona!

Even if you had one, if the birthers viewed you as a threat to them, then for sure that long form or any other certification you provide would be seen as contrived and dismissed with extreme prejudice. There would be no convincing evidence that you could provide to appease them, because the real issue is how closely you resemble them in appearance, political ideology, religion, morals (their version), dress, dialect and sexual orientation (outwardly speaking), among others and those they have to dream up on the fly to further alienate you.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I have my original birth certificate with foot print on it. I was born in 1958 in Roanoke Virginia.

 

[CallMeJoe]

I have my original birth certificate with foot print on it. I was born in 1958 in Roanoke Virginia.

I used to have a copy of my "long form" birth cetificate, but it was lost somewhere in years of moving from state to state. I asked North Carolina to provide a duplicate, and they sent me a new certificate remarkably similar to what the state of Hawaii provided candidate Obama.

Does that mean I'm Kenyan, too?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I used to have a copy of my "long form" birth cetificate, but it was lost somewhere in years of moving from state to state. I asked North Carolina to provide a duplicate, and they sent me a new certificate remarkably similar to what the state of Hawaii provided candidate Obama.

Does that mean I'm Kenyan, too?

My guess is you're a Tarheel.

 

[JD50]

any type of law that would require a president to have been born a us citizen is idiotic in the first place. maybe they should deal with that law instead. under that law, sarah palin or dan quayle would be eligible to be president but winston churchill wouldnt?#$%^&*(*

False dilemma. No one in this thread is suggesting this.

You sure about that?

 

[Red Dawn]

I have my original birth certificate with foot print on it. I was born in 1958 in Roanoke Virginia, a poor Coal Miners Daughter

:whiste:

 

[bfdd]

Since you appear confused, the bill as proposed is CLEARLY unconstitutional, or at least there isn't even a remote chance it would ultimately hold up in court.

To be clear, in Hawaii the short form certificate of birth is the ONLY official proof of birth that that State of Hawaii specifically uses now. The state doesn't really bother making sure it keeps other types of these records. MANY similar birth certificates which don't meet all the requirements specified in the law are the official records used in other states. The law would disfranchise a considerable number of naturally born US citizens from running for President. (Technically it would merely prevent them from appearing on that state's ballot, but that would still be viewed as an unacceptable and clearly could effectively create the same result with enough states copying such an effort.)

The part about dual citizenship is even more outrageous if anything. Many people in the US today hold dual citizenship of some type, which is often granted automatically by another country at birth rather than by the action of the individual in question. There is nothing in the US Constitution which would explicitly be an issue for someone having dual citizenship. (And really looking at the US Founding Father's intent, they clearly would not have expected or wanted the naturally born citizen provision to apply as a dis-qualifier to most of the situations that exist today involving dual citizenship if they had been aware of this future development at the time.) This proposed provision would disenfranchise a whole different group of people from the President as well through no fault of their own. It would also be viewed as infringing on what is the US Federal government responsibility regardless. At most you could reasonably propose a new federal law requiring anyone with dual citizenship to renounce non-US citizenship prior to taking their oath of office and this would be one provision which would presumably be upheld by the courts.

These proposals as written are either purely political posturing, or are being created by individuals who don't understand what federal laws and constitutional provisions actually are regarding this subject.

well to be honest, there should be some standard and if the system Hawaii is using is below standard they should be forced to change it. I'm not saying to go back and boot Obama out of office because of some stupid shit morons are pushing, but so we can avoid any sort of controversy in the future. Plus it only makes sense that there is some sort of "standardized" birth certificate or record keeping especially since it's a requirement of becoming President.

 

[soulcougher73]

If this passes and it stands up to the Obama Legal Team's challenge ('cause there will be an instant lawsuit here), Obama and every other candidate for president would have to produce a legal, long-form birth certificate to be on the ballot.

Im not a birther but how is the above bolded a bad idea? Im surprised we dont already have that as law.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well here's what's going to happen. I expect this will get struck down in court because the Constitution does not state that a long form birth certificate is needed as proof, and a state does not have the right to dictate to the Feds.

If it is let go, then the most hilarious case is that a court challenge after the election would probably cause the entire state's votes to be cast out resulting in the comical situation of people trying to get at Obama causing its entire population to be disenfranchised.

 

[thraashman]

Im not a birther but how is the above bolded a bad idea? Im surprised we dont already have that as law.

Well, for example, my best friend who was born in Hawaii when all this birther shit came up went and found his "birth cerificate". This is not something he requested but what his parents had received as his birth, and it's a certificate of live birth.

 

[OutHouse]

I have my original birth certificate with foot print on it. I was born in 1958 in Roanoke Virginia.

that is not a birth certificate issued by the state. i have the same certs for my kids and the hospital did it and is NOT a legal document.

 

[WackyDan]

Why shouldnt tax paying people expect to utilise public facilities like schools?

You assume that illegals pay their share in taxes, which they do not. You also ignore the higher costs associated with educating a population that has no motivation to speak the primary language, which is English.

In Mecklenburg County, NC it is estimated that children of illegals cost the tax payers an extra $90 million to educate per year.

Their children, when born here become citizens, but because their parents are not officially here, those children by default get medicaid coverage and a welfare check. They cost us dearly for very little return on that investment.

 

[werepossum]

Im not a birther but how is the above bolded a bad idea? Im surprised we dont already have that as law.

Assuming there is some method of getting past an irretrievably lost birth certificate I think it's a great idea, get everything out up front. However any state doing this prior to the 2012 election is going to look like racist conspiracy nuts, no matter their intentions (which prior to the 2012 election, most of us will assume to be racist and/or conspiracy nut-oriented anyway.) Given that Obama is already President, is our first black President, is known to have problems producing his birth certificate, and has overwhelming evidence that he qualifies as a natural born citizen, it's hard to see the practical benefit to bringing such a bill aimed at him. I say make it item number one in 2013.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

that is not a birth certificate issued by the state. i have the same certs for my kids and the hospital did it and is NOT a legal document.

I joined the Navy, attained a passport, and proved I was a citizen (immigration for my wife and step-daughter) with this birth certificate.

 

[Wreckem]

I don't have my long form birth certificate. I've never seen it before, and I don't know if it even exists. I sure hope I never run for President or I'm screwed in Arizona!

Every state has a department of vital statistics. If you were born in a state, they have an official record of your long form birth certificate.

In some instances you must provide a long form birth certificate to get a US Passport.

 

[Wreckem]

Well here's what's going to happen. I expect this will get struck down in court because the Constitution does not state that a long form birth certificate is needed as proof, and a state does not have the right to dictate to the Feds.

If it is let go, then the most hilarious case is that a court challenge after the election would probably cause the entire state's votes to be cast out resulting in the comical situation of people trying to get at Obama causing its entire population to be disenfranchised.

Except state law, not federal law, governs elections, candidate selection, and how one gets on a ballot. They aren't trumping federal law by requiring proof of citizen ship by form of birth certificate.

Second of all. There are many instances that require long form birth certificates. Many people are required to provide that to obtain a US passport.

 

[YoungGun21]

Obama never would have been allowed to run if he wasn't born in the US. I still don't understand why this is an issue. Clearly, if he ran and got elected, he is a citizen of this country.

 

[Wreckem]

Me neither...

I'm not even really sure what a "long form" birth certificate is.

My "short form" certificate was certainly enough to allow me to join the Navy, vote, and get a passport.

Long for equals = copy of original birth certificate.

It has has everything on it, like what hospital, what town, what county, what date, what time, who your Dr was, fathers name, age, place of birth, occupation, mothers name, age, place of birth, occupation, mother's prior births.

Short form has your name, your parents name, the date, the county/state, and thats it.

Long forms can be inaccurate though. I knew a girl whos long form listed she was male. Ann my long form says it was received by the registrar almost a full month prior to my listed birth.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

We all know the real issue here... he's black

 

[Wreckem]

Obama never would have been allowed to run if he wasn't born in the US. I still don't understand why this is an issue. Clearly, if he ran and got elected, he is a citizen of this country.

Obama is a citizen. Hawaii, and alot of other states, were shitty at record keeping for most of the 1900s.

People seem to forget McCain was also sued multiple times over the same issue.