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[Chiropteran]

Then you changed your initial point by saying, "It works for ME so it's fine." (Remember, then I brought up my MoM Jakiro to ridicule your blatant ignorance?)

No, I didn't. Yes, I said it works fine for me, but that was after I showed the obvious flaws in your above logic.

You were WRONG. The fact that I had that additional point to make doesn't remove the reason you were wrong (you ignored the actual hp regen of the RoH when comparing it).

 

[Chiropteran]

And Linken's higher winrate @ dotabuff and how almost NO ONE buys them at high tier are the proof that they are only 'good' at bottom tier.

What tier is na'vi in again?

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

What tier is na'vi in again?

How many times have they bought a Linken's again?

 

[Chiropteran]

How many times have they bought a Linken's again?

More than zero, which is what it would be if the item was truly as terrible as zeze claims.

 

[Destiny]

Linken sphere is good for heros that can escape, it gets popped you get out of dodge or rush to sidelines during team battles... or it gets popped better use your team skill or skill that benefits your team before they finish you off...

Linken Sphere is situational.

BKB is situational.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

More than zero

I'd like a number, thanks. Or show me replay VODs of even two games where someone from Na'Vi in a competitive match has bought a Linken's.

which is what it would be if the item was truly as terrible as zeze claims.

It's not terrible. If I were given a Linken's sphere I wouldn't exactly turn it down. It's got good stats, it has a nice passive.

There are just better items you can get for the money.

 

[Zeze]

Stop arguing with a noob who thinks RoH naked is a good opening.

You are literally leveling down to someone who's really really bad. Being bad is fine, but terribly ignorant.

 

[Zeze]

Linken Sphere is situational.

BKB is situational.

You mean:

LS is highly situational (almost never).

BKB is a natural go-to item and is rarely situational.

 

[Zeze]

(you ignored the actual hp regen of the RoH when comparing it).

And you entirely ignored...

7. You realize it's not just having +96 hp. I deal more damage than you, take less damage than you, heal faster than you, have more max HP than you. You are outmatched in 5 different ways from top to bottom, left and right... with SAME GOLD

5. I came out with 36 more damage on top (132 - 96) AND your naked SF already have 303 HP left out of 435. I have 434 HP left out of 530 HP. Just at level 1 and 3 hits, I have 134 more HP than you out of your 303. That is NEAR DOUBLE your HP.

If I go aggressive and trade hits to red hp, you have NOTHING- go home or afk heal at tower... at 5 HP/sec. I have 400 HP Salve for burst heal. I'm back in action in no time with full HP.

Also entirely IGNORED fail last-hitting with 38 base damage while I last-hit and deny you into level 2 when I'm 3.5.

You are bad and your games are bad. The thing is, you don't even know how bad you are. You think you are actually at a moderate level. Not even close.

Just what are you arguing here?

- RoH opening is bad because you are bad.

- BKB is far more superior than Linkens. BKB may be situational (otherwise a go-to item), but Linkens is purely situational.

- Not ONE person has agreed with you. That's how bad you are. It's not even comparing HotD vs Vlad and getting a healthy debate out of it. You are alone in this. You are just bad.

Read this again- You are bad.

We've put in so much effort into helping you why your thinking is bad. Over and over- a short story's worth. The time has come to abandon hope and treat you as who you are- an ignorant noob.

You are bad.

 

[Chiropteran]

I am definitely being trolled at this point. I even QUOTED that entire part that I supposedly "ignored", and I responded with this-

Nope, you messed up the math, again. SF base level 1 attack speed is 1.42 seconds per swing. In the time it takes to trade 3 autoattacks, in a row, I regen 21 more hp than you, due to the RoH. That 36 more damage is shrunk down to a more modest 15 more damage. Something, sure, but if you hesitate a mere 3 seconds, or last hit a couple minions, that advantage is erased or worse, reversed.

Now, you can absolutely use your tangos, but that only applies to the first 48 seconds. After that, sure you can buy more, but guess what? Having a RoH doesn't prevent use of the courier, I too can buy and use additional tangos or salves or even buy some other basic items.

 

[Zeze]

No one is agreeing with you, not even one. That's how bad you are.

Have fun at the garbage tier trash bottom floor of the skill pyramid.

 

[Chiropteran]

No one is agreeing with you, not even one. That's how bad you are.

Have fun at the garbage tier trash bottom floor of the skill pyramid.

That is cool, go back to the dogma.

Every one of your posts is just calling me a bad player because I'm bad while you completely ignore the FACTS I post, such as the fact that a ring of life actually regens your hp, you know, it's kind of the point of buying one, and it makes you look stupid when you don't account for that regeneration in your detailed example which was supposed to prove how inferior it is.

Well yeah, if you ignore the stats on it, it sucks, clearly

And no, I'm not a bad player. You are just an elitist. When say crap like "well 70-80% of the players are bad" it just shows how ignorant of reality you are. At least 50% of the players are above average skill, and not completely bad. But I guess it hurts your ego to admit that, so anyone worse than you is a terrible noob with zero skill who will never get better. Yeah okay.

Nobody ridiculed you in the Path of Exile thread when you asked idiotic newbie questions, not sure why you insist on being a jerk here.

I'd like a number, thanks. Or show me replay VODs of even two games where someone from Na'Vi in a competitive match has bought a Linken's.

As much as enjoy playing dota 2 as a free game, it hasn't really been good enough to spend any money on it, although I did buy the compendium just because it seemed like a fairly neat idea and worth supporting.

As such, I haven't bought any tournament replays, so can't give you a replay download.

But, here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmtA2Tq062o&list=PLB31138203D342C35

The first video I found with na'vi, and there is a linkin's built.

 

[Zeze]

Don't put words in my mouth. There's nothing wrong with being bad or new. I'm all for helping people out.

You are ignorant. Even after tons of posts people laid out before you. You are dense and don't get it. That's the problem. You stay in garabge tier yet you don't listen.

PoE doesn't take skill, what the hell? It's a grinding RPG.

 

[Chiropteran]

Don't put words in my mouth. There's nothing wrong with being bad or new. I'm all for helping people out.
...
PoE doesn't take skill, what the hell? It's a grinding RPG.

It doesn't help anyone to be told they are "bad" when you refuse to actually explain why in any logical manner. Your detailed comparison of starting items is WORTHLESS and illogical because you didn't even account for the hp regeneration on the RoL, which is the only reason to ever buy one.

Dota 2 is a grinding RPG also, in fact it's basically the exact same sort of game with some different mechanics and the addition on PvP. It doesn't take skill to level or gear up in either, but skill helps you level up faster and make smarter decisions about items or skills to buy and what order. The fact that you think PoE requires no skill makes me really wonder. It takes the exact same skill as Dota, except for the mechanics which are unique to each game- such as no last hitting in PoE, no serious PvE difficulty in Dota.

Also, these are your words:

About 60-70% of Dota players are... bad (just like 50% of SC2 are Bronze league players. The world is dominated by casuals. Why are Bose & shitty movies popular?). And Linken pays off greatly. Even the top 20% are barely decent.

If the top 20% is "barely decent" then you obviously are under the delusion that the remaining 80% are terrible bad newbies. I'm sorry, but by just about any real measure if you are in the top 50% you are at least above average and considering even the lower 30% has tons of players with hundreds and hundreds of games calling them newbies isn't even remotely correct.

 

[namtran512]

What tier is na'vi in again?

The last time Linken Sphere was used in multiple games was specifically only on Naga Siren and was used at TI2 which was played under a completely different metagame where the games lasted long enough where you could afford such items. The only hero it is really built on now is Weaver in very specific 3 core line-ups that rely heavily on split pushing.


Right now the competitive community players under a metagame where cheap and effective items are more common such as Ring of Aquila/Drums/Magic Wand/Urn/Medallion/etc. because aggressive heroes are in play all the time. It's all about early aggression to control the map and then extend into late game. Niche items like Linken Sphere have almost no place in the current metagame except in a very specific situation with a specific hero.


Also, Ring of Health is a very bad choice because of the fact that you will be unable to win early trades and lasthitting wars, which means that you will be in a very, very, very difficult position when the guy actually decides to go kill you.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

It doesn't help anyone to be told they are "bad" when you refuse to actually explain why in any logical manner. Your detailed comparison of starting items is WORTHLESS and illogical because you didn't even account for the hp regeneration on the RoL, which is the only reason to ever buy one.

Dota 2 is a grinding RPG also, in fact it's basically the exact same sort of game with some different mechanics and the addition on PvP. It doesn't take skill to level or gear up in either, but skill helps you level up faster and make smarter decisions about items or skills to buy and what order. The fact that you think PoE requires no skill makes me really wonder. It takes the exact same skill as Dota, except for the mechanics which are unique to each game- such as no last hitting in PoE, no serious PvE difficulty in Dota.

Also, these are your words:


If the top 20% is "barely decent" then you obviously are under the delusion that the remaining 80% are terrible bad newbies. I'm sorry, but by just about any real measure if you are in the top 50% you are at least above average and considering even the lower 30% has tons of players with hundreds and hundreds of games calling them newbies isn't even remotely correct.

"Good" doesn't mean "better than average". 50% of all pianists are better than average by definition. But most of them are nowhere near good.

 

[Zeze]

Let the awful kid stay awful in his awful tier.

 

[p0rkguy]

If the top 20% is "barely decent" then you obviously are under the delusion that the remaining 80% are terrible bad newbies. I'm sorry, but by just about any real measure if you are in the top 50% you are at least above average and considering even the lower 30% has tons of players with hundreds and hundreds of games calling them newbies isn't even remotely correct.

You'd be surprised how bad some players are. Players that are stuck playing the same heroes, same type of heroes and/or doing the same builds over and over again are quite bad, they might make it to high tier but that's all they're capable of. They don't know how to cope with a different situation, the game play has already been planned out by them and them only which affects the team heavily. Most people panic in team fights and spam right click when they have other ways of dealing with it.
These players are often playing carry heroes or little to low responsibility heroes because they won't be able to cope with the situation at hand during a fight. Players need to be able to keep calm in situations.

Mistakes are generally understandable. IE. Miss-click on a blink tide ult. It's understandable and it happens but your team will still give you sh*t for it and you'll probably never hear the end of it. If it happens again under the same situation/circumstance then you haven't learned anything from it.

The learning curve is actually quite hard if you're just getting into Dota now. You've missed the golden age of Dota where everyone was still testing out all the skills and understand how things work. New players tend to watch the competitive scene and try to repeat the same, this is a really bad way to start.
The best way to really understand the game on your own is to play a random/different hero every game. Understand each hero and how it plays out with your team's hero and against the enemy team's. Put your theories into play, not competitive scene plays. Over time, you will get better and better.

 

[Destiny]

You mean:

LS is highly situational (almost never).

BKB is a natural go-to item and is rarely situational.

There are some games where I did not need BKB, but I would say most of the heroes I played I have bought BKB...

I've put 1000 hrs into the game, and I have yet bought a LS... once I get enough gold to buy a LS, I rather get a luxery/stituational item to deal more DPS/tankiness/team auras in late games than just to block one spell...

 

[CrackRabbit]

They really need to implement some sort of three strikes policy when dealing with abandoning games. My computer crashed hard on me earlier and the game counted me as abandoning even though I made it back in under 5 min.
Now I'm going to be stuck in low priority with a bunch of trolls and scrubs for a day for no fault of my own.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

They really need to implement some sort of three strikes policy when dealing with abandoning games. My computer crashed hard on me earlier and the game counted me as abandoning even though I made it back in under 5 min.
Now I'm going to be stuck in low priority with a bunch of trolls and scrubs for a day for no fault of my own.

They do. If you abandon twice in a 7-day period, you're put in low priority. Don't know how this stacks with reports though. Maybe you were reported.

 

[Turbonium]

Woah woah woah. What happened to this thread? Flamefest?

Btw is the Dota 2 network down? I can't connect.

 

[{bad}]

idk what happened to MM since last update , not e1 one balanced game.
either m winning in 20 mins or getting teammates who are in really low tier against good opposition.
yesterday i got tiny in my team who went solo safe lane against weaver and after 18 min he has only point booster + 1tango nothing else and waver has skadi
he tossed teammates onto other team a few times, then said "sorry sorry i was trying to toss creep onto them -.-"
and this kind of thing has happened in last 7-8 games in a row.
another thing i have noticed is that if u win few games in a row u start getting low tier ppl into your team against good enemy team.
_____________________________________________________
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i am not crying about low levels people in my team, as said in my earlier posts i believe that low lvl people should get to player with higher tier bcoz that the only way they can learn but my problem is that right now dota2 keeps on decreasing level on your teammates as u reach start winning more and more games.
the way it sud work should be that your opposition level should increase

though i think its really difficult 2 do bcoz majority on dota 2 player base is new players so it will take time for players and system to mature

 

[Turbonium]

I'm so sick of these pubs - just lost a game we should have won because my team wouldn't listen to basic directions on what should have been a game-changing push.

We had their mid rax dead, they had none of our rax, and we were pushed into their base again with 4 of them dead for the next 30 seconds solid. In other words, it was lategame, and we had what I consider 3 carries in their base (Ursa, PA, Razor, + Nyx), with just me (the support, WD) dead. What does my team decide to do? Go for the win, while first trying to kill the last hero for some retarded reason, wasting precious time. I kept saying "get another lane" to them, and yet...

I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong in that decision. Another lane/rax in lategame would take way less time than trying to finish outright, and they only had 30 seconds to do it (which is why they just got 1.5 tier 4 towers down in their attempt, as they wasted precious time trying to kill the remaining enemy hero). And besides, their decision (which they did 2x, not just 1x!) cost us the game in the end, as we never got another lane down and they mega'd us eventually, so we lost.

Also: I find that raxing one lane, regardless of if it's mid or not, is rarely decisive. Raxing two lanes often while having all your rax intact is though (in pubs at least), as long as you don't do anything stupid after (which can happen in pubs).

Anyway, the thing that really gets me is:

- I get no leadership commendations for my constant coordination and, imho, proper decision making. So yea, commendations mean nothing as far as I can.
- I get a mediocre player blaming me for the loss. As if my epic plays in 2 of the large battles meant nothing. I guess the newb didn't see my death ward + BKB combo mop up the floor when we were taking their mid rax. Not saying I'm pro (far from it), but giving credit where it's due is so rare on online games. Rather, you find it's the opposite. Nothing but blame shifting and inability to take any criticism at all.

Anyway, I'm still looking for some solid, emotionally mature and skilled players to play with on a team. And I don't mind being taught stuff - I still have a lot to learn. Constructive criticism is a good thing imo.

And yes, you're totally free to tell me if you disagree with what I said in this post without having to worry about me being all defensive and immature about it.

TL;DR: 50 minutes in, 3 carries + nyx pushing their base with their mid rax gone, and team decides to waste 15 seconds on killing a last standing hero, then trying to kill tier 4 towers and take the win in the 15 remaining seconds INSTEAD OF JUST RAXING/MEGAING in that time. We end up losing 15 minutes later. Team blames me.

 

[{bad}]

^^ they wasted 15 sec, once in similar situation my team chased am 4m their mid rax till our bot lane no1 trying 2 to mega when 4 enemy heroes dead. though we won