The universe had a beginning.

[Moonbeam]

There's no evidence for God that you can approve.

It's a good thing that a lot of people don't care about your approval.

If you have evidence for God you approve of then you can't really be a person of religious faith, can you, and yet you seem to think he should believe on faith. Why would you ask him to believe without evidence if you can't yourself?

 

[MagickMan]

Oh look, pointless personal insults when someone points out your own stupid mistake. Typical idiot's reaction. Can't make a counter point, so we'll just insult them! Weeeeeeee!

What mistake? You said something stupid, because the two things did not relate.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

If you have evidence for God you approve of then you can't really be a person of religious faith, can you, and yet you seem to think he should believe on faith. Why would you ask him to believe without evidence if you can't yourself?

Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Moonbeam]

I didn't claim to not have an interest in the topic, a person can be curious about the origins of the universe, and even the concept of divinity, without being on one side or another of a heated theological debate. Though, your statement isn't about that, it's about you taking a shot at me because you're obsessed. Get the fuck over it, if your own hyper-expanded ego will let you. :\

The only person who constantly tries to tell everyone on this forum they're superior, is you. It'll surprise you to know this, I'm sure, but you aren't "God's" gift to AT. You never were, and you never will be.

Oh my God, look at all the drug addled rage. Seriously, you need to see a doctor. You clearly have an inferiority complex since you reflect it in the mirror.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Is that the same ThinClient who claims to be willing to have a meaningful discussion??

Seems to me he doesn`t have a clue what a meaningful discussion is....
These are quotes by ThinClient --

As am I, but until a religious person even makes an effort to provide evidence, I am content to ridicule them for the mindless sheep that they are.

inplainsight.org is a known theistic-bias bullshit site anyway. He's not providing evidence, he's providing hearsay.

The point is to get them to answer, forcing them to take a certain stance, to which I am already prepared to counter depending on which way they go.

This isn't my first fuckin rodeo.

Too bad their cowardice prevents them from even attempting it.

FUCKING PROVE IT, or shut the fuck up and know that you're WRONG!

I don't understand why you tards don't get something so simple. This is how the entire concept of evidence and proof and hypothesis and theory and law and truth work.

It seems like religiotards have a conclusion, that god exists or that christ was divine or that the bible is the inspired word of god, but cling to that conclusion despite there being zero evidence. When evidence is found to the contrary (like DNA in the fossil record proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was no first human EVER and that man has been on this planet in the current form for hundreds of thousands of years and not 6000 years), religious sheep vehemently deny the evidence because it does not fit their religious agenda.

Does this seem rational to you? If not, then why the fuck do you believe in bronze age myths that stem from a holy book that makes claims that have been disproven? If that DOES seem rational to you, what in the actual fuck?
__________________

Just shut the fuck up with your stupid replies and give him a short, honest, sincere reply that isn't playing games.

You guys are wasting time and energy arguing pointless bullshit.

Both of you!

Get lost you brainwashed religiotarded failure.

That's the best part about science! I don't have to show you evidence to the contrary to invalidate your bullshit positive claim that has no evidence! Sure, that's one way to prove you wrong, but the other way is to simply hold you to your obligation of providing evidence to support your own claim.

Then why the fuck did you click this thread.

You're a fucking moron.

You can't disprove anything. You can't disprove that I exist. You can't disprove that I don't exist.

There's no evidence that proves that Santa doesn't exist.

We have typed this out hundreds of times and you are too fucking stupid to learn.

The burden of proof rests on the shoulders of those making the positive claim.

You claim that god exists. Before you make the claim, god doesn't exist because there's no one making the claim (let's say you're the first to make this claim). When you make the claim, it's up to YOU to prove that your claim is not bullshit. It is not up to us to prove to you that your claim is bullshit until AFTER you provide evidence. THEN it is our job to scrutinize your evidence to find holes. If we cannot, if the evidence is sound, then we accept the evidence and draw a conclusion from it (yay, god exists).

Until you provide evidence that god exists, then you're full of fucking shit and you need to close your ignorant fucking mouth because all you're doing is advertising to the entire world that you are a fucking moron.
***************************************

Yep--ThinClient is one person who you would want to have a discussion about whether there is a God....


MAKES YOU WANT TO JOIN THESE FORUMS AND HAVE A MEANINGFUL DIALOGUE....LOLL

 

[MagickMan]

Oh my God, look at all the drug addled rage. Seriously, you need to see a doctor. You clearly have an inferiority complex since you reflect it in the mirror.

I don't take drugs, but you should. Start with Haldol. :\

 

[Moonbeam]

Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

So you believe you have received a gift that he has not been given that makes it possible for you to believe what he cannot, and for that you call him an idiot and an asshole. Is that what you were told about yourself when you got your gift or is it what it should have removed? You seem to have a gift that can't be taken but which also you can't give away. How can we give the gift that can't be taken?

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't take drugs, but you should. Start with Haldol. :\

But everybody knows you take drugs. You even know their names. But it's good that you stopped taking drugs because the evidence of the damage they've done to you is obvious. I have got my bicycle pump handy and am about to pump up my head to massive size to deal with your need to respond to you're pricked ego.

 

[Vic]

What evidence disproves Him?
And who said He has to play by the rules? God can and does alters the rules to whatever His desires are.

If He had to alter "the rules" that would mean He made a mistake. God doesn't make mistakes.

Think about it.

 

[Vic]

Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

Then why does the Holy Spirit not give this gift to everyone?

And before you answer sin, remember that sin is the result of a lack of faith.

 

[MagickMan]

But everybody knows you take drugs. You even know their names. But it's good that you stopped taking drugs because the evidence of the damage they've done to you is obvious. I have got my bicycle pump handy and am about to pump up my head to massive size to deal with your need to respond to you're pricked ego.

I know the drug names because I know how to search WebMD. Sorry, I don't take drugs, prescribed or otherwise.

For someone who purports to be a righteous person, with the philosophical answers for all, it's comical how much you act like a psychotic douche-nozzle. BTW, you've done a hell of a job derailing a thread by making personal attacks, again. :hmm:

What doesn't annoy but amuses me is when people who claim no interest in the topic pipe up to proclaim that disinterest as a form of superior perspective, implying the inferiority of others by insinuating they are annoying. It seems as if the egotistical self flatterers par possessed of a penchant
To butt in and announce the fattens of their heads even when they don't have a dog in the race.

Why do that? Can't control yourself, no self-discipline?

 

[Onceler]

You're a fucking moron.

You can't disprove anything. You can't disprove that I exist. You can't disprove that I don't exist.

There's no evidence that proves that Santa doesn't exist.

We have typed this out hundreds of times and you are too fucking stupid to learn.

The burden of proof rests on the shoulders of those making the positive claim.

You claim that god exists. Before you make the claim, god doesn't exist because there's no one making the claim (let's say you're the first to make this claim). When you make the claim, it's up to YOU to prove that your claim is not bullshit. It is not up to us to prove to you that your claim is bullshit until AFTER you provide evidence. THEN it is our job to scrutinize your evidence to find holes. If we cannot, if the evidence is sound, then we accept the evidence and draw a conclusion from it (yay, god exists).

Until you provide evidence that god exists, then you're full of fucking shit and you need to close your ignorant fucking mouth because all you're doing is advertising to the entire world that you are a fucking moron.

You're like a little kid who can't have his way so you run home and cry to mommy.
You just can't stand believers can you? If you had your way they would all be hanged or worse.

 

[fskimospy]

Re: Bolded - yeah, that's the assumption I was getting at. The assumption that God exists (only) in this universe (or more specifically this 'reality' or dimension).

I realize that we're getting into some pretty extraordinary territory here, but when discussing the possibility of a being who is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent (and possibly some other "om's" I'm forgetting ATM) no notion is too extraordinary.

Some time ago I was doing some reading on quantum physics/mechanics. It seems at the subatomic level thing don't actually exist; they are not real. Imagine a flickering 3D projection, like a hologram. However from our perspective things are real, are solid.

Well, geez in googling 'hologram' to make sure I was using the term properly I found this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/11/universe-hologram-physicists_n_4428359.html

That's ^ what I was getting at.

A simple way to state it is that our reality is just a 'dream' of God. Our universe and us, were created in, and inhabit this dream. That's our reality. The point being that God would therefore (also) exist outside our reality. If so, contemplating his existence under the assumption that he exists only in our universe, or our version of reality, would be fallacious.

Fern

And absolutely none of these things mean that god should be exempt from the rules of causation other than simply declaring him so.

I think you guys are all missing the forest for the trees here. It isn't that one can't come up with a scenario under which god would be exempt from such causes, it is that the path you have to take to get there is based on nothing more than something you thought up. To get around the need for god to have a first cause your argument is "the being I'm thinking of wouldn't need one". Well, okay. This reasoning begs the question, which is a classic fallacy.

If god exists outside of the universe and time due to your declaration then I simply declare that matter existed outside of the universe and time until the Big Bang. If you're going to tell me that what I just said is bullshit my answer would be "that's exactly my point."

 

[Moonbeam]

I know the drug names because I know how to search WebMD. Sorry, I don't take drugs, prescribed or otherwise.

For someone who purports to be a righteous person, with the philosophical answers for all, it's comical how much you act like a psychotic douche-nozzle. BTW, you've done a hell of a job derailing a thread by making personal attacks, again. :hmm:



Why do that? Can't control yourself, no self-discipline?

I just pointed out in my last post that your big fat ego wouldn't allow you to drop this. Why not just swallow your pride and shut your ass you hypocrite. That's right; self control and discipline are for others. You're entitlement tells you that you deserve a pass. But just imagine how flattered I must feel that you went all the way out on the internet to find a term with which to slander me. I feel very special. Bullies depend on the righteous to get through the day.

I'm really worried about your mental health. You should see a doctor.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I just pointed out in my last post that your big fat ego wouldn't allow you to drop this. Why not just swallow your pride and shut your ass you hypocrite. That's right; self control and discipline are for others. You're entitlement tells you that you deserve a pass. But just imagine how flattered I must feel that you went all the way out on the internet to find a term with which to slander me. I feel very special. Bullies depend on the righteous to get through the day.

I'm really worried about your mental health. You should see a doctor.

Seems like you can't let your hate go and/or can't stop giving control of your emotions to others. Maybe you need to follow your own advice.

 

[Agent11]

Well, this thread went places didn't it.

 

[ThinClient]

Yep--ThinClient is one person who you would want to have a discussion about whether there is a God....


MAKES YOU WANT TO JOIN THESE FORUMS AND HAVE A MEANINGFUL DIALOGUE....LOLL

I lose my patience with Rob M. and Pray to Jesus because they bring the same arguments to the table over and over and over despite having been completely countered and properly done by multiple people in each previous thread they've participated in.

I lose my patience because they don't learn despite every single argument of theirs being properly deconstructed and they simply bury their heads in the sand or plug their ears and go NUH UH! NUH UH! NUH UH!

So make all the strawman arguments you want against me, but when you're ready to get back to the conversation, like an adult, we can start with my favorite question that I have asked 50,000 times with ZERO answers from anyone on the religious side of the bench:

What evidence have you seen to support the existence of a god?

 

[ThinClient]

You're like a little kid who can't have his way so you run home and cry to mommy.
You just can't stand believers can you? If you had your way they would all be hanged or worse.

Oh look, more pointless personal insults because you do not have the wherewithall to actually answer the questions I pose.

Nice.

I guess that means you concede to me.

 

[Moonbeam]

Seems like you can't let your hate go and/or can't stop giving control of your emotions to others. Maybe you need to follow your own advice.

I am a mirror. Your words are about you, not me. I already know the truth you can't face about how we are. You are too egotistically possessed and obsessed by the fact that I have held a mirror up to you to let it rest. You feel threatened by what I say and your reaction is to try to put that truth all back on me, to make me experience the pain of self observation that you would feel seeing that I am right. I already know what people do who hate themselves. I have already been into that pain. See a Doctor Moonbeam, and suffer, you say over and over, but I already have. Your turn my friend. Your turn to get well. Your illness makes the lives of others miserable. Not everyone is free from your shit. You just didn't know what would happen when you attacked one who is bully immune. Now run along and see if your therapist friend will help you do the work I did long long ago. Then we can begin to relate on a different plane and you'll sound just like me. But naturally your ego will prevent you from hearing a single word.

 

[ThinClient]

It's rare, but I completely agree with Moonie on this one.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I am a mirror. Your words are about you, not me. I already know the truth you can't face about how we are. You are too egotistically possessed and obsessed by the fact that I have held a mirror up to you to let it rest. You feel threatened by what I say and your reaction is to try to put that truth all back on me, to make me experience the pain of self observation that you would feel seeing that I am right. I already know what people do who hate themselves. I have already been into that pain. See a Doctor Moonbeam, and suffer, you say over and over, but I already have. Your turn my friend. Your turn to get well. Your illness makes the lives of others miserable. Not everyone is free from your shit. You just didn't know what would happen when you attacked one who is bully immune. Now run along and see if your therapist friend will help you do the work I did long long ago. Then we can begin to relate on a different plane and you'll sound just like me. But naturally your ego will prevent you from hearing a single word.

LMAO!!!! I find you to be quite humorous specially when you try to use the psychobabble that you've learned from your doctors on others. If any one is trying to bully others it's you as the prove is in your profanity lace tirades you use when lashing out. It's you that needs to get well as I have a clean bill when it comes to mental health as I have a top secret security clearance to work on Naval steam turbines and a NRC security clearance to work in nuclear power plants both of which required me to go through/pass a psychological evaluation.

 

[Moonbeam]

I lose my patience with Rob M. and Pray to Jesus because they bring the same arguments to the table over and over and over despite having been completely countered and properly done by multiple people in each previous thread they've participated in.

I lose my patience because they don't learn despite every single argument of theirs being properly deconstructed and they simply bury their heads in the sand or plug their ears and go NUH UH! NUH UH! NUH UH!

So make all the strawman arguments you want against me, but when you're ready to get back to the conversation, like an adult, we can start with my favorite question that I have asked 50,000 times with ZERO answers from anyone on the religious side of the bench:

What evidence have you seen to support the existence of a god?

I started by believing that the Christian God exists but I had nobody to teach me who had awakened by Christian technique, the technique where a person's love for God becomes so strong they become subsumed into their ideal. So my ideas of who God is were very naïve. But I learned to love the good and despise evil and I saw that evil everywhere I turned including in me.

So I set about to prove that God exists to ease the pain I felt that good people suffer at the hands of evil. But I failed. I concluded that belief in God is just an illusion that fools believe to avoid pain. Of course that left me with all that suffering and sadness, that good is as meaningless as evil and all the longing and hope people feel is empty. There is no heaven and no act of evil will ever be righted. My promising young life ended right there.

I turned to philosophy for answers but found only what to me looked like rationalization, the avoidance of what I knew to be true.

Finally I came to Zen by chance or because I was a driven seeker. Here were folk who spoke of not God, of a world devoid of meaning, but were completely and totally content and this threw me into violent rage. How could these assholes say what they say, see what they see and be happy. They even had a description of it.....a man with tiring arms hanging from a cliff, a tiger above and a tiger below, who picks a strawberry that tastes so good.

I could not get this out of my mind, the rage the frustration, the sadness of not knowing what this could mean. So I read more of this Zen thingi, exposing myself to a completely different way of thinking, a form of realization that did not depend on a belief in God, a path that I could go down, except, of course, for the fact I didn't understand what the fuck they were saying. Mumbo Jumbo, you see, a magical strawberry that was weighting for me, just another dumb religion.

Well, one night in deep thought about my condition, pondering the problem of meaning and why I even needed it, I awoke to the fact that the need for meaning is as meaningless as everything else. So there I was thanks to Christianity full of a need for meaning, and thanks to Zen, supported in the certainty there is none, deep in thought when the wind hit my house and I went from deep thought to silent peace of mind. I woke up and as I did saw in a flash that the need for meaning is as meaningless as everything else. I had clung to a need for meaning even though I knew there was none.

The sudden ending of deep suffering and the arrival of peace was very convincing to me that what man has always been seeking is himself awake in the now. That is the strawberry, the moment of plucking and tasting.

It is awakening that the world seeks in everything but the seeking of the world is upside down. We seek the truth out there but the truth that I see is that real truth is the love that is when I AM.

A further thing that I realized was that this truth can arrive in many ways. One person may take a drug and have a now experience, another may arrive through prayer, or like me by thinking, or the martial artist through bringing his body into the now. Then there are combinations of these three.

So, while the truth can only be known by those who taste, the outsider can be called to that possibility by finding words about himself that correspond to his inner reality. For me it was words about a strawberry. For you it might be getting lost in a beautiful sunset, or when a temple bell rings. But as long as your now lasts, you are always there, in the kingdom or heaven, or the home of the Zen Master. As the Master says, it would be nice to know it.

Bottom line then is that the proof in in the pudding and all that business about knowing them by their fruits, strawberries, in my case. It's strawberries all the way down.

 

[MagickMan]

Seems like you can't let your hate go and/or can't stop giving control of your emotions to others. Maybe you need to follow your own advice.

He's consumed by it, due to his own confusion and instability. What's worse is he wants everyone else to believe he's some type of sage or enlightened teacher, an impossibility due to his anger and abuse issues. :\

I am a mirror. Your words are about you, not me. I already know the truth you can't face about how we are. You are too egotistically possessed and obsessed by the fact that I have held a mirror up to you to let it rest. You feel threatened by what I say and your reaction is to try to put that truth all back on me, to make me experience the pain of self observation that you would feel seeing that I am right. I already know what people do who hate themselves. I have already been into that pain. See a Doctor Moonbeam, and suffer, you say over and over, but I already have. Your turn my friend. Your turn to get well. Your illness makes the lives of others miserable. Not everyone is free from your shit. You just didn't know what would happen when you attacked one who is bully immune. Now run along and see if your therapist friend will help you do the work I did long long ago. Then we can begin to relate on a different plane and you'll sound just like me. But naturally your ego will prevent you from hearing a single word.

You aren't a mirror, unless you're talking about the ones that they have in Fun Houses, that distort and alter everything you see in them. You like telling others that they're damaged (with childlike glee, I must add), when the truth is it's only your own brokenness and psychotic behavior that you project on everyone else around you. That's a fact.

YOU STARTED THIS, YOU'RE THE BULLY. (Or at least you're trying to be, I don't care.) Go back and look for yourself, you singled me out for your "wrath" in this thread because you can't keep from lashing out at anyone with an opposing view, and me in particular because I pointed out your hypocrisy a while back. There's a reason dozens (if not hundreds) of people on this forum despise you, and it has everything to do with your own inane, self-righteous bullshit. Combine that with whatever is rattling around up in your birdcage at any given moment, and it's all plain to see.

Well, this thread went places didn't it.

No doubt, if MoonRay were any more nutty, the squirrels would have buried his ass for the winter. :whiste:

 

[MagickMan]

I just pointed out in my last post that your big fat ego wouldn't allow you to drop this. Why not just swallow your pride and shut your ass you hypocrite. That's right; self control and discipline are for others. You're entitlement tells you that you deserve a pass. But just imagine how flattered I must feel that you went all the way out on the internet to find a term with which to slander me. I feel very special. Bullies depend on the righteous to get through the day.

I'm really worried about your mental health. You should see a doctor.

My ego pales in comparison to your own, oh "Holy One". ()

 

[Moonbeam]

LMAO!!!! I find you to be quite humorous specially when you try to use the psychobabble that you've learned from your doctors on others. If any one is trying to bully others it's you as the prove is in your profanity lace tirades you use when lashing out. It's you that needs to get well as I have a clean bill when it comes to mental health as I have a top secret security clearance to work on Naval steam turbines and a NRC security clearance to work in nuclear power plants both of which required me to go through/pass a psychological evaluation.

Don't be so egotistical. They just arrested a pile of Air Force officers who had their fingers on the nuclear buttons who passed all those tests and I bet they were much more extensive than yours, as if that really mattered. Just because I know a fuck more than you do by not being so stuffed full of so much shit, doesn't make me better than you are. It's not a competition with me. I won long ago. I defeated the nothing. I don't need you to believe. But I won't let you walk away quite as stupidly unaffected as you arrived. You deserve to know more than you do. I have no problem at all thinking of you in a nuclear power plant. I trust you in that capacity.