meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
Not sure what you mean. FWIW, here people can work on contract for so long, getting extensions etc etc. If they want to be full-time they have to apply for the position when it comes up. Once you're full-time, you're union - unless you're management. So the merit system you describe is not in place here. Seniority also does not come into question when two qualified individuals are up for a job. When all other things are equal (skillsets, qualifications, etc) then seniority is used as a tie-breaker (it never comes down to that AFAIK - they pick who they WANT for the position). Seniority pretty much lost its lustre here.
However I am rewarded for it, in a sense. A few years ago, our union (Ontario Public Service Employees Union) went to bat for a new contract for us and did well. So I guess I'm rewarded... by having a job, good wage and benefits. Of course, there are people that abuse the fact that we are unionized, but I think you will find those bad apples at every job. So far, everyone that has really abused it has been fired, no questions. People get the sense that the union will step in and protect ANYONE. That's just not true in my experience. If you don't do your job, they will find a way to get you out - union be damned.
I did - I thought of John F. Hickory (the F is for Florida!) from Vice City Public Radio and that damn Freedom River.
I don't understand why you are so certain that without a union you would be recieving more money. Are you making less than you can elsewhere doing the same job? Then leave.
If you aren't then they could surely hire the guy from another company who would do it for your current salary. I'm not union and many places I've worked 3-4% is the MAX raise you're going to get. Also, my non-union company is going to give the job to the person with seniority 9.9 times out of 10.
I didn't have to apply because the contract position was moved to intern, which moved to temp. Not sure how it worked out exactly, it just did.
To make the managers position a position you must apply for, city council must approve the position and budget for it. However, I believe you will be able to be given a promotion into the new title as well if it is in the step... but I am not sure.
With or without the managers job, I will always receive less pay to a co-worker who worthless.
rivan
Diamond Member
- Jul 8, 2003
- 9,677
- 3
- 81
Having been in several union positions, I can solidly say that they (the unions I've been in) overprotect some workers. They keep those who put in the extra effort from benefiting in any way. This is in the printing/publishing industry.
Two examples:
Now.... even with that, unions HAVE A PLACE in some industries, helping maintain a quality of life for people who perform a highly skilled function. They protect workers from companies that are constantly in search of an enhanced bottom line at the literal expense of the worker.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 66,345
- 14,752
- 146
I've been union nearly all my working life. Union agreements merely set the minimum pay for the job. NOTHING in the contract keeps an employer from paying you over scale. It's been very rare for me to "only" work for union scale. Usually, I get at least $2-$3 over scale.
As for the comments about working less as union members...maybe in some jobs that's true, but certainly not in the construction trades where I' ve worked...if you don't /can't keep up with production, you're gone. The unions won't back someone fired for slacking. It gives them a bad name...
I've worked as a foreman several times, and never had any problem when I ran someone off.
When I was a union business agent, we would hear the complaints of workers who were fired for incompetence/laziness, but our union contract says that the contractor (employer) is the sole judge of qualification of an employee, and retains the right to discharge any employee who is unqualified for the job.
If you're sent back to the union hall 3 times within a certain period, you are required to go to our apprentice training facility and pass the minimum qualification test before you can be sent out to another job.
That rule helps keep people who aren't qualified off the jobsites. Gawd knows, our POP (probabionary) apprentices are dangerous enough...:roll:
As for the comments about working less as union members...maybe in some jobs that's true, but certainly not in the construction trades where I' ve worked...if you don't /can't keep up with production, you're gone. The unions won't back someone fired for slacking. It gives them a bad name...
I've worked as a foreman several times, and never had any problem when I ran someone off.
When I was a union business agent, we would hear the complaints of workers who were fired for incompetence/laziness, but our union contract says that the contractor (employer) is the sole judge of qualification of an employee, and retains the right to discharge any employee who is unqualified for the job.
If you're sent back to the union hall 3 times within a certain period, you are required to go to our apprentice training facility and pass the minimum qualification test before you can be sent out to another job.
That rule helps keep people who aren't qualified off the jobsites. Gawd knows, our POP (probabionary) apprentices are dangerous enough...:roll:
MidasKnight
Diamond Member
- Apr 24, 2004
- 3,288
- 0
- 76
You dont even have a real job there, obviously no senority, and you want to what? Change everything at a work place?? Keep dreaming and take your issues to the next Union meeting, good luck and dont forget to duck.
The other guy in IT doesn't really have any seniority either. He has a year on me, which isn't much.
No, I don't want to change EVERYTHING I would like the change the bargaining agreement I am under. Because I work for a city, there are many different unions in this place so I couldn't change everything if I wanted to. Not very many people fall under the agreement we are under to my knowledge.
Sphexi
Diamond Member
- Feb 22, 2005
- 7,280
- 0
- 0
Unions are pretty worthless. I worked in a seasonal position at a local postal sorting station last Christmas, it was only for 2-3 weeks, but I still had to pay a full year's worth of dues to the local union, and yet I get no benefit out of it. I wasn't full, or even part time, so why would I have to pay?
Apparantly it doesn't matter, they make the rules, and it was in the contract they have with Canadapost, and now I get junk mail from the union about votes and strikes and all sorts of crap I don't care about.
Best part is how everything there is based on seniority, yet half of the employees are completely worthless. It took me a day and a half to get the hang of the machines they use, when I started going faster than the people who work there full-time I expected to catch some flak about making them look bad, but they simply didn't care. They put in enough time, as long as they kept a minimum standard going they couldn't be fired.
Apparantly it doesn't matter, they make the rules, and it was in the contract they have with Canadapost, and now I get junk mail from the union about votes and strikes and all sorts of crap I don't care about.
Best part is how everything there is based on seniority, yet half of the employees are completely worthless. It took me a day and a half to get the hang of the machines they use, when I started going faster than the people who work there full-time I expected to catch some flak about making them look bad, but they simply didn't care. They put in enough time, as long as they kept a minimum standard going they couldn't be fired.
FallenHero
Diamond Member
- Jan 2, 2006
- 5,659
- 0
- 0
MotionMan
Lifer
- Jan 11, 2006
- 17,124
- 12
- 81
m1ldslide1
Platinum Member
- Feb 20, 2006
- 2,321
- 0
- 0
cardiac
Platinum Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 2,082
- 14
- 81
Tell that to your local firemen. 99% of all full-time fire departments are union: International Association Of Firefighters... They had to unionize years ago as municipalities didn't care about their safety....A lot more is involved, but this isn't the place to go into it....
Yep, firefighters are slackers......(Yeah,... right)
Bob
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